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Most women are not feminists

Would you consider yourself a feminist?

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 52.6%
  • No

    Votes: 9 47.4%

  • Total voters
    19

Spiderman

Veteran Member
"Feminism purports to concern itself only with equality – but in reality propagates mistrust, tension, and hatred between the sexes."
‘The Ten Most Common Feminist Myths’

Is this true in your opinion? I've always considered myself a feminist, but it seems like many in the movement these days are not for equality.

This shows, for instance if a woman is trying to pass the test to be a firewoman, she has to lift a lot less weights to pass the same test that a man takes... Men on average would be better at picking a human being up and carrying them out of a burning building. Both genders should have to pass the same test.

Likewise, if there is a military draft, do feminists want us to draft women as Frontline combatants?

"And yet the fact remains that most women don’t identify as feminists. Polls in the US show that as few as 18% of women there call themselves a feminist. "
Women Against Feminism


Any thoughts?

What is a feminists?

 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
The value of feminism does not stand or fall on how many people identify as feminists. If it were the case that the popularity of something determined its value, greasy McDonald's stomach bombs would be the best hamburgers in the world, because they are the most popular.

Every movement in the history of the world has attracted fringe elements to it and shallow people always judge the core movement in terms of its fringe elements. Feminism is no exception -- it too has a lunatic fringe, and it too has its shallow detractors.

A whole lot of people who refuse to call themselves "feminists" would be up in arms if you took away the rights that feminists have won for them.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I think that feminism isn't a monolith, and that a lot of different feminists will answer those questions differently. Take a look sometime on this really huge list of different feminist movements: Feminist movements and ideologies - Wikipedia
I don't believe there should be a draft for anyone, men or women. I don't believe standards for safety in any occupation should be modified, but anyone who can do the work should be eligible for hiring. I do identify as a feminist.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
"Feminism purports to concern itself only with equality – but in reality propagates mistrust, tension, and hatred between the sexes."
‘The Ten Most Common Feminist Myths’

Is this true in your opinion? I've always considered myself a feminist, but it seems like many in the movement these days are not for equality.

This shows, for instance if a woman is trying to pass the test to be a firewoman, she has to lift a lot less weights to pass the same test that a man takes... Men on average would be better at picking a human being up and carrying them out of a burning building. Both genders should have to pass the same test.

Likewise, if there is a military draft, do feminists want us to draft women as Frontline combatants?

"And yet the fact remains that most women don’t identify as feminists. Polls in the US show that as few as 18% of women there call themselves a feminist. "
Women Against Feminism


Any thoughts?

What is a feminists?
It isn't always about what one calls oneself.
I notice that many non-feminists would pass a "feminist" test.
It's a shared values thing....not about labels.
So depending on how you count'm, there could be far more than you think.

Btw, don't ask me to pick up & carry any humans.
Those days are gone.
I'd haul'm by the arms, & hope the head doesn't hit any rocks.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
I think that feminism isn't a monolith, and that a lot of different feminists will answer those questions differently. Take a look sometime on this really huge list of different feminist movements: Feminist movements and ideologies - Wikipedia
I don't believe there should be a draft for anyone, men or women. I don't believe standards for safety in any occupation should be modified, but anyone who can do the work should be eligible for hiring. I do identify as a feminist.
Well I'm a feminists in that sense as well...
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
I am in egalitarian. Which means I believe women and men are equals. Feminism is the belief women are not equal to men, but that they should be. Which is why a vast majority of people don't identify as feminist. I'd say most people are egalitarian in this day and age. 1st and 2nd wave feminism were awesome and served their purpose. But 3rd wave feminism is a cancerous, toxic, and problematic movement. A good example is the various different types of feminism within feminism. Whether it be the socialist feminist, classic liberal feminist, trans exclusionary radical feminist, classic radical feminism, etc etc etc. I honestly have no idea exactly how many there are, but it's well over a dozen easily. And they don't necessarily get along with each other either, a lot of infighting. Hopefully we will see it disappear as people come to realize they are indeed egalitarian and leave feminism in the past.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
I am in egalitarian. Which means I believe women and men are equals. Feminism is the belief women are not equal to men, but that they should be. Which is why a vast majority of people don't identify as feminist. I'd say most people are egalitarian in this day and age. 1st and 2nd wave feminism were awesome and served their purpose. But 3rd wave feminism is a cancerous, toxic, and problematic movement. A good example is the various different types of feminism within feminism. Whether it be the socialist feminist, classic liberal feminist, trans exclusionary radical feminist, classic radical feminism, etc etc etc. I honestly have no idea exactly how many there are, but it's well over a dozen easily. And they don't necessarily get along with each other either, a lot of infighting. Hopefully we will see it disappear as people come to realize they are indeed egalitarian and leave feminism in the past.
Yes when we refer to feminist movement, we have to ask which movement. There have been many.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member

Ask any feminist. They will tell you men oppress women. This means that men hold power over women. This means that men are viewed as above women, looking down on women. This means that feminist believe women are not equal to men.


Egalitarian believes woman and men are equals. Different strengths and weakness, but equals nonetheless.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I am in egalitarian. Which means I believe women and men are equals. Feminism is the belief women are not equal to men, but that they should be. Which is why a vast majority of people don't identify as feminist. I'd say most people are egalitarian in this day and age. 1st and 2nd wave feminism were awesome and served their purpose. But 3rd wave feminism is a cancerous, toxic, and problematic movement. A good example is the various different types of feminism within feminism. Whether it be the socialist feminist, classic liberal feminist, trans exclusionary radical feminist, classic radical feminism, etc etc etc. I honestly have no idea exactly how many there are, but it's well over a dozen easily. And they don't necessarily get along with each other either, a lot of infighting. Hopefully we will see it disappear as people come to realize they are indeed egalitarian and leave feminism in the past.
I counted 2 dozen a year or so ago.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I don't think men and women are precise equals in all respects (their strengths and weakness are more like mostly overlapping bell curves), but I do think they ought to have equal legal, political, social, and economic rights.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
Problem with feminism in my view is it does not completely address all the issues women face (e.g racism, culture). Although it is under the egalitarian umbrella, feminism tends to take a western approach when addressing issues across the globe.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The value of feminism does not stand or fall on how many people identify as feminists. If it were the case that the popularity of something determined its value, greasy McDonald's stomach bombs would be the best hamburgers in the world, because they are the most popular.

Well, at least they're cheap and fast.

(I mean McDonald's, not feminists. ;))
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Ask any feminist. They will tell you men oppress women. This means that men hold power over women. This means that men are viewed as above women, looking down on women. This means that feminist believe women are not equal to men.


Egalitarian believes woman and men are equals. Different strengths and weakness, but equals nonetheless.
This view seems flawed to me, framed in this way. Like trying to say that X government has inequitable power distribution between two races, nationalities, groups of religious or classes that Y disadvantaged group is unequal as a value judgement. That's really not what anyone is saying. They're saying Y group doesn't have equal representation and/or opportunities.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Ask any feminist. They will tell you men oppress women. This means that men hold power over women. This means that men are viewed as above women, looking down on women. This means that feminist believe women are not equal to men.

You're talking about millions of people. "Ask any feminist" is not a reliable source for a definitive statement like yours about what the label "feminist" means.

Also, I neither believe that men are above women in terms of value nor that men and women aren't equal, and I strongly align myself with the feminist label. So your generalization is already contradicted here.

Egalitarian believes woman and men are equals. Different strengths and weakness, but equals nonetheless.

I and all feminists I know believe more or less the above as well.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I'd say most people are egalitarian in this day and age.
Even if the two were mutually exclusive, and they're not, I'd say most people don't know what the heck egalitarian is, and it's probably more recognized as a system of socioeconomics (of which socialism falls under) than 'something which is not feminism' it's become used as in some internet circles today. Someone could look at their views and try to claim them as 'their side' but I think that causes unnecessary division and could be just as much done by the feminists as the 'not feminist egalitarians' as @Revoltingest alluded to.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
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our-generation.jpg

There are branches of feminism that only advocate for women. In areas where women are advantaged over men they remain silent.

By all means we should stop violence against women... But we should stop violence against men as well. I'm pretty sure a lot more violence is committed against men. I've seen a lot of men get beaten up, myself included. I've never seen a woman with a black eye, and in fact I've never seen a woman get beat up. I've seen it happen to guys a lot.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Even if the two were mutually exclusive, and they're not, I'd say most people don't know what the heck egalitarian is, and it's probably more recognized as a system of socioeconomics (of which socialism falls under) than 'something which is not feminism' it's become used as in some internet circles today. Someone could look at their views and try to claim them as 'their side' but I think that causes unnecessary division and could be just as much done by the feminists as the 'not feminist egalitarians' as @Revoltingest alluded to.
Egalitarianism doesn't fall under socialism, although there is that flavor.
Ref....
Egalitarianism - Wikipedia
"....a school of thought that prioritizes equality for all people.....that all humans are equal in fundamental worth or social status, according to the Stanfordk Encyclopedia of Philosophy.[4] According to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, the term has two distinct definitions in modern English:[5]either as a political doctrine that all people should be treated as equals and have the same political, economic, social, and civil rights....
....or as a social philosophy advocating the removal of economic inequalities among people, economic egalitarianism....
....or the decentralization of power. Some sources define egalitarianism as the point of view that equality reflects the natural state of humanity...."

So it looks like egalitarianism & feminism intersect here & there.

On the divisions....
Shared values are more important than different labels.
 
Last edited:

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Egalitarianism doesn't fall under socialism, although there is that flavor.
Ref....
Egalitarianism - Wikipedia

On the divisions....
Shared values are more important than different labels.
I'm not saying it does, just that socialism falls under egalitarian when discussing socioeconomic systems.
At a cultural level, egalitarian theories have developed in sophistication and acceptance during the past two hundred years. Among the notable broadly egalitarian philosophies are socialism, communism, social anarchism, libertarian socialism, left-libertarianism, one-nation conservatism and progressivism, some of which propound economic egalitarianism. Several egalitarian ideas enjoy wide support among intellectuals and in the general populations of many countries. Whether any of these ideas have been significantly implemented in practice, however, remains a controversial question. A position of opposition to egalitarianism is antiegalitarianism.[11]
Up until the last couple years, it is what was I heard most by 'egalitarianism.'

I agree with the last bit though.
 
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