1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Moses as a type of Christ.

Discussion in 'Theism' started by Sonic247, Oct 8, 2019.

  1. Sonic247

    Sonic247 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    1,824
    Ratings:
    +73
    Alot of the things Moses did were a picture of Christ, they was an attempt to kill both as children, they both were largely rejected despite miracles, they both ascended to God and were thought to be dead (although Moses just went to the top of the mountain) they both came in a time of oppression. Moses put a brass serpent on a pole to heal from snake bites, Jesus put the world's sin on a himself on a cross, looking to him causes healing. Feel free to watch/not watch the video I made on this. Any thoughts on this subject appreciated.

    or here's the transcript-
    Jonah was in the belly of the whale three days, Jesus was three days in the heart of the earth, Joseph was sold into bondage for 20 pieces of silver, Jesus was betrayed for 30, Moses walked through the sea, Jesus walked on top of it. It’s an amazing thing to realize as a new Christian how often the prophets spoke of the coming messiah, but it’s just as amazing to realize that it wasn’t only their words that spoke of Christ but their lives did as well. To those who study the Bible it becomes clear that Jesus Christ is the main theme in both the Old and New Testament. And the lives of the prophets is just one more way that the Spirit talks about Jesus. Now I don’t think the prophets were always fully aware of this although they may have been to some extent, but ultimately these were just natural manifestations of the Spirit of Christ which was in them. For example Jonah didn’t get swallowed by the fish because he made a conscience decision to teach us a lesson, but God used it to teach him and Nineveh as well as us. This concept, that the people who follow God walk a similar path as him, although watered down by their own weakness and sin, is directly stated in Matthew 16:24 which says- “Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.” In the Old Testament Psalm 39:12 says the same thing- “Hear my prayer, O LORD, and give ear unto my cry; hold not thy peace at my tears: for I am a stranger with thee, and a sojourner, as all my fathers were.” Because God remains the same, and the world more or less remains the same the reaction of the world to God remains more or less the same, that is why there are similarities between the life’s of the prophets and saints who had the spirit with them and Christ who had it in it’s entirety. Like John 3:34 says “For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.” In other words God didn’t give a man named jesus a portion of his Spirit but as the Son of God the spirit of God was upon him without measure, since God is eternal and can’t be measured. Further reinforcing this point is Collosians chapter 2 vs 8 through ten which says- Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: Deuteronomy 18:15 Moses makes an incredible statement, but like many things in the Bible, it’s easy to miss the full scope of what he is saying at first glance. “The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;” Now it can be argued that this applies to every prophet as each prophet hears from God and delivers his words to the people, but this verse is ultimately is talking about Christ. This is an area of Bible study known as typology. There are countless examples of this. The Bible is the living word and there is always more to discover. There are still things in it that we can discover and will blow our minds no matter how long we have studied. Every once in a while a good show will add things like this and we will call them “easter eggs” because they are fun to look for. But the Bible takes it to a different level, which is even more extraordinary when you consider it was written by many people over 100’s of years. Although the Bible is technically 66 books it is seen as one book, and rightfully so. But back to Moses, Now Moses said that God would raise up someone like him. Did he simply mean the other prophets? Deuteronomy 34:10 says- There has not arisen a prophet since in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face. John 1:21 confirms that during the time of Jesus’s earthly ministry, despite all the excellent prophets God had sent to Israel, there was still an expectation of the greater prophet spoken of by Moses.That’s the explanation of this verse. It goes, “And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.”The context is John the Baptist has started his ministry and they asked him what he was doing. “ It confirms the same thing in John 6:14- “Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.” There was an expectation among the people that there was still a prophet that should come. Not just any prophet but “that Prophet” the one like Moses. The one that was going to take them out of Egypt, out of bondage, and into the promised land. So lets look specifically into some of the ways, and there are probably more ways that I’m missing, but at least some of the ways the life of Moses was a picture of Christ.
    First of all Jesus and Moses both came to Israel in a time of oppression. In Moses’s case they were being oppressed by Egypt in Jesus’s case by Rome. They was also an attempt to kill both of them as children. When Moses was born the king of Egypt was mad, there were to many Hebrews in the land and he saw them as a threat to his power. He commanded that all the males that were born should immediately be killed -tossed into the river. But moses was saved. His mother put him in an ark of bullrushes and sent him down the river when she could no longer hide him. Pharaoh’s daughter saved him and raised him as her own son. Christ’s birth was also a threat to a ruler. When the wise men from the east came to look for Christ they told Herod they were looking for the king of the Jews. Herod considered himself to be the king of the jews and asked the wise men to bring him word when they found him claiming he wanted to worship him as well, but he secretly wanted to kill him. But God warned them on there way back and they snuck out of the country. So Herod tried to kill all the children that age and under. But just like Moses Jesus was safe in Egypt. Because God also told Jesus’s parents in a dream to hide in Egypt. Another thing in common is that despite the miracles they did that should have showed they were sent from God, Israel was still more worried about the earthly government. In Exodus 5:20 it says- “And they met Moses and Aaron, who stood in the way, as they came forth from Pharaoh: And they said unto them, The LORD look upon you, and judge; because ye have made our savour to be abhorred in the eyes of Pharaoh, and in the eyes of his servants, to put a sword in their hand to slay us.” And when the Pharisees were discussing Jesus in John 11:47 they said- “What shall we do? For this Man works many signs. If we let Him alone like this, everyone will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and nation.”
    Another interesting thing to point out is that many of the plagues that God sent against Egypt in Moses’s day are simialar to the plagues that will happen at the end of the world according to the book of revelation. God turned the nile to blood just like it says the seas and rivers will become blood in the end times, it also says locusts came and ate everything in egypt, in revelation it says a swarm of locust like creatures will come from the bottomless pit, Exodus mentions frogs, revelation mentions demons that are described as being like frogs, exodus mentions a boil breaking out on men as does revelation, both have hail mixed with fire, both also mention darkness and death. And the general idea is the same, just like Egypt continued to ignore every sign and rebel against God, the whole world will ignore every sign and rebel against God. And just like Even after all those signs Pharaoh continued to fight against God and pursue his people right into the middle of the Red Sea, the whole world also in the future after it sees all these signs, will still come to fight at Armageddon
    Besides the plagues sent against Egypt and the crossing of the Red Sea the third thing Moses was most well known for also alludes to Christ. He went up the mountain into the presence of God to receive the 10 commandments. While he was gone the people made their own gods and doubted whether Moses was even going to come back at all. Similiar how Jesus ascended into the prescense of God and people went there own way questioning if he was going to come back or not.
    Many of the miracles Moses did are also a picture of Christ in one way or another. One that is specifically mentioned by Jesus is the the brass serpent. When Israel in the desert was complaining about Moses and God, God sent poisonous snakes to attack them. So Moses prayed for them and God told Moses to make an image of a snake and put it on a pole and whoever looked at it when he was bitten would be healed. Jesus told Nicodemus in the gospel of John, As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness even so the son of man must be lifted up. What did Jesus mean by this? Well the snake represented the sin of Israel, but when they looked at it lifted up on the pole they were healed. Jesus was also lifted up on a cross and took the punishment of the world’s sin upon himself. In a sense he became sin, although that’s not to say he ever sinned but he took all the suffering of sin on himself, so that people could look at him and be saved. Just like Israel had to look at their sin to be saved from the snake bite people who see their sin in the suffering of Jesus can be saved.
    Along those same lines the first miracle Moses did was to throw down his staff in front of Pharoah and it became a snake, but when he lifted it up it became a staff again, this is a little less explicit, but given that Jesus was represented by the snake in another miracle as well as prophetically named the branch in Zechariah 6:12 it’s not hard to see how this miracle can represent Christ, who on earth was condemned as a sinner i.e a snake, but rose back up and was seen to retain this true nature. Another miracle that Moses did is heal the bitter waters at Marah. This was soon after Israel crossed over the Red Sea, the water there was too bitter for them to drink until God showed Moses a tree that when he tossed it into the water made the bitter water sweet. The cross however is the true tree that bring sweetness out of bitterness. The new Testament reveals that even the Manna that they ate and the water from the rock represented Christ. John 6:48 says- I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”
     
  2. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2018
    Messages:
    5,984
    Ratings:
    +799
    Religion:
    None
    Too much text, sorry.
    This is called "typology", ie types of Christ.
    Moses spoke of the Messiah as being "like me"
    and what describes Moses best? "The meekest
    man in all the world."
     
  3. MikeDwight

    MikeDwight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2019
    Messages:
    1,406
    Ratings:
    +108
    Religion:
    Presbyterian
    I skimmed it at least.
    I'm never going to call Moses a prophet, there's a 100 Bible prophets whom God put his mouth next to their ears, next to the Triune God Christ. First thing Iever read is that Moses sneaks up on an Egyptian captor in Egypt and smacks him on the head and hides the body! HA! All ninja! He's a murderer who keeps the secret real well! Well then.
    john 3:12-16 Like you're mentioning or of course the 10 Commandments from the mount Sanai. Of course Jesus has to demonstrate you full knowledge of that 1440 year old even and all the Jewish scripture.
     
  4. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2018
    Messages:
    5,984
    Ratings:
    +799
    Religion:
    None
    Which triune?
    God, Lord and Heavenly Father = Trinity 1
    Father, Son and Holy Ghost = Trinity 2
    Spirit, Water, and the Blood = Trinity 3
    Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost = Trinity 4
    The spirit and soul and body = Trinity 5
    The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob = Trinity 6
    God the Father, God the Mother, God the Son. Nazarene & Muslim = Trinity 7
    God, Lord and Heavenly Father = Trinity 8
    God, the Son and the Disciples = Trinity 9 ("that they may be one as we are" Jesus to God)
     
  5. MikeDwight

    MikeDwight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2019
    Messages:
    1,406
    Ratings:
    +108
    Religion:
    Presbyterian
    2,4 maybe? upload_2019-10-8_20-51-41.jpeg Nicenian/Chalcedonic Christianity 300-2019 Represent.. WESTSIIIDE

    Nicene Creed
     
  6. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    39,592
    Ratings:
    +20,081
    Religion:
    ecumenical & naturalistic Catholic
    The circular pattern found throughout both the Jewish and the Christian scriptures so as to draw parallels.
     
  7. Sonic247

    Sonic247 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    1,824
    Ratings:
    +73
    I guess that is true, going over the details is pretty interesting though. It's also broken up though. As much as Moses was a type, he also represented the law, And that's in a sense why he brought them to the edge of the wilderness but Joshua (Yeshua/Jesus) brought them across. Also some are oddly specific like Judah sold Joseph (another messianic type) not just that they were both sold for silver, but Judah/Judas is the same name like Joshua/Jesus. I actually wonder sometimes if the translators should have stuck to one english translation/transliteration for names, whether from Greek or Hebrew to bring this out more.. but that's not really a big deal either way.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    13,284
    Ratings:
    +4,397
    Religion:
    Christian
    Exodus is a morality tale of redemption, Moses is a literary device.. Its fiction.

    Jonah is a comic novella about God's love for all people. .. even the people of Ninevah.
     
  9. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    20,655
    Ratings:
    +1,698
    No...In mysticism, Biblical mysticism, Moses is associated with some other Biblical personas, and Jesus isn't an association, there.
    I agree with that.
     
  10. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    13,284
    Ratings:
    +4,397
    Religion:
    Christian
    I don't know what you said. Exodus is didactic literature. The Hebrews weren't slaves in Egypt. They were a Canaanite tribe who emerged as monotheists …
     
  11. Sonic247

    Sonic247 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    1,824
    Ratings:
    +73
    The Jews in the time of Jesus took what Moses said as messianic prophecy, "Truly this is that prophet which should come into the world."
     
  12. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    20,655
    Ratings:
    +1,698
    Perhaps you mean in the sense of a 'type of Messiah'.

    Moses mainly is considered a 'prophet' unlike Jesus, who is mainly 'an aspect of god'.

    The Jewish mystics would have had no problem writing 'jesus', if that were the association, being noted...and it isn't. In other words, the typology isn't associating Jesus as a prophet type.
     
  13. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    20,655
    Ratings:
    +1,698
    Wouldn't matter, as then you would just presume a literary [fictional association, which they don't. So, either way, not an association.
     
  14. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2014
    Messages:
    14,028
    Ratings:
    +13,182
    Religion:
    none
    Later to be repeated, to some extent, in Islamic scripture
     
    • Like Like x 2
Loading...