Moses and Elijah.A vision or real?

[Frank Goad]

In Matthew 17:verses 2 and 3 it says Jesus started to talk to Moses and Elijah.Who appeared out of nowhere.And in verse 4 Peter said he wanted to build three tabernacles.One for Jesus.One for Moses.And one for Elijah.But in verse 9.Jesus says it was just a vision.I think it was really them.But I also think it was a vision.Could the vision have been a vision of something 100% real?Like in Acts 2:17?But another question comes up.Why would you want to build three tabernacles for a vision?I don't think the vision was symbolical of something else.Like some of the visions in the book of revelation.Also in Luke 9:30.It says Jesus was talking with two men(Moses and Elijah).I don't think this was a resurrection.But Moses and Elijah's spirits.

 

[Truth in love]

Vision may be a get generic in this case. Visitation might be more accurate. Their coming makes sense to me.

 

[cataway]

Moses and Elijah did not go to heaven . it was a vision

 

[Truth in love]

Moses and Elijah did not go to heaven . it was a vision

They did not die, but why would they not go to heaven?

 

[paradox]

In Matthew 17:verses 2 and 3 it says Jesus started to talk to Moses and Elijah.Who appeared out of nowhere.And in verse 4 Peter said he wanted to build three tabernacles.One for Jesus.One for Moses.And one for Elijah.But in verse 9.Jesus says it was just a vision.I think it was really them.But I also think it was a vision.Could the vision have been a vision of something 100% real?Like in Acts 2:17?But another question comes up.Why would you want to build three tabernacles for a vision?I don't think the vision was symbolical of something else.Like some of the visions in the book of revelation.Also in Luke 9:30.It says Jesus was talking with two men(Moses and Elijah).I don't think this was a resurrection.But Moses and Elijah's spirits.

It was real, not vision.

The reason it was real is because there is reason of why this had to happen:
in Deuteronomy 18:15-18 Moses says God will send another "prophet" like him in the future who will guide people.
This "vision" is confirmation that Jesus is that prophet sent by God.
The reason why there is Elijah in the vision is because scriptures say Elijah will come to restore things, Jesus explains who is Elijah and when did he come Matthew 17:10-12
Elijah did come in the image of John the baptist.

Verse 9 says "vision" but it should not be interpreted as "just a vision" literary because the reason is that disciples now have a proof for preaching of who is the ascendant of Moses which cannot rest on "just a vision" but instead a real thing.

Moses and Elijah did not go to heaven . it was a vision

Elijah was ascended to heaven without seeing death:
2 Kings 2:11

Moses however experienced death but did go to heaven.
Elijah is the greatest prophet of the bible (after John the baptist) which is why he went directly to heaven.

 

[Hold]

It was real, not vision.

The reason it was real is because there is reason of why this had to happen:
in Deuteronomy 18:15-18 Moses says God will send another "prophet" like him in the future who will guide people.
This "vision" is confirmation that Jesus is that prophet sent by God.
The reason why there is Elijah in the vision is because scriptures say Elijah will come to restore things, Jesus explains who is Elijah and when did he come Matthew 17:10-12
Elijah did come in the image of John the baptist.

Verse 9 says "vision" but it should not be interpreted as "just a vision" literary because the reason is that disciples now have a proof for preaching of who is the ascendant of Moses which cannot rest on "just a vision" but instead a real thing.


Elijah was ascended to heaven without seeing death:
2 Kings 2:11

Moses however experienced death but did go to heaven.
Elijah is the greatest prophet of the bible (after John the baptist) which is why he went directly to heaven.

No more poker with Elijah.

 

[cataway]

It was real, not vision.

The reason it was real is because there is reason of why this had to happen:
in Deuteronomy 18:15-18 Moses says God will send another "prophet" like him in the future who will guide people.
This "vision" is confirmation that Jesus is that prophet sent by God.
The reason why there is Elijah in the vision is because scriptures say Elijah will come to restore things, Jesus explains who is Elijah and when did he come Matthew 17:10-12
Elijah did come in the image of John the baptist.

Verse 9 says "vision" but it should not be interpreted as "just a vision" literary because the reason is that disciples now have a proof for preaching of who is the ascendant of Moses which cannot rest on "just a vision" but instead a real thing.


Elijah was ascended to heaven without seeing death:
2 Kings 2:11

Moses however experienced death but did go to heaven.
Elijah is the greatest prophet of the bible (after John the baptist) which is why he went directly to heaven.

john3 :13 Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man

 

[paradox]

john3 :13 Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man

1 Maccabees 2:58 confirms Eliah's ascention

Not only Elijah but Enoch did also ascend to heavens:
Genesis 5:24

Sirach 44:16 and Sirach 49:14 confirm Enoch

Hebrews 11:5 confirms that "taking up" or "ascending" means "not seeing death".

There are only 2 possible explanation regarding contradiction with John 3:13
1. They went into Sheol, the abode of the dead directly without seeing death
2. God made an exception and opened heavens for those saints

Numbers 16:33 say that Sheol is below, not above, but since Elijah and Enoch were depicted as taken up rather than down I would conclude explanation 2, which is not impossible:
Strange are the way of the LORD and God is omnipotent:
Luke 1:37
Ecclesiastes 11:5

 

[cataway]

1 Maccabees 2:58 confirms Eliah's ascention

Not only Elijah but Enoch did also ascend to heavens:
Genesis 5:24

Sirach 44:16 and Sirach 49:14 confirm Enoch

Hebrews 11:5 confirms that "taking up" or "ascending" means "not seeing death".

There are only 2 possible explanation regarding contradiction with John 3:13
1. They went into Sheol, the abode of the dead directly without seeing death
2. God made an exception and opened heavens for those saints

Numbers 16:33 say that Sheol is below, not above, but since Elijah and Enoch were depicted as taken up rather than down I would conclude explanation 2, which is not impossible:
Strange are the way of the LORD and God is omnipotent:
Luke 1:37
Ecclesiastes 11:5

you are likely referring to the place that birds fly.

 

[paradox]

you are likely referring to the place that birds fly.

no I don't, but why don't you solve the contradiction then? what is your explanation?

 

[cataway]

no I don't, but why don't you solve the contradiction then? what is your explanation?

there is no contradiction . the issue is the understanding of which heaven is being referred to .Jesus was in the heaven of God's dwelling. he was there he would know if any ascended .he being as a eye witness. what he said was recorded at John 3 :13'' Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man ''

 

[paradox]

Jesus was in the heaven of God's dwelling. he was there he would know if any ascended .he being as a eye witness. what he said was recorded at John 3 :13

Very interesting, you hold John 3:13 as the only evidence, and reject the vision as not real which is in fact evidence of Jesus showing what he witnessed, therefore what you're doing is picking on what fits your claim and rejecting that goes against your claim, and as such there is no contradiction because you rejected contradictory portion, but rejecting contradictory portion of scriptures is not a solution to contradiction

You so far gave no biblical evidence that this was just a vision nor any evidence that Elijah or Enoch did not ascend, on another side I gave you several verses supporting what I said, so if you really want to convince me or prove wrong or what ever, then please give some verses that refute my claim supported with those verses so far.

But if you don't see contradiction based on your rejection of a vision as real, then where did Elijah and Enoch ascend?
if it's sheol, then was that a vision of a sheol? if yes why haven't they see others in sheol? since Sheol was place for all the dead. non that those who ascended. you have a lot to answer.

 

[pearl]

I think the account of the Transfiguration has Jesus the embodiment of the Law and the Prophets.

 

[Eli G]

Jesus called what they saw a vision because long-dead Moses and Elijah were not literally present. Only Christ was actually there (Matt.17:9).

 

[cataway]

Very interesting, you hold John 3:13 as the only evidence, and reject the vision as not real which is in fact evidence of Jesus showing what he witnessed, therefore what you're doing is picking on what fits your claim and rejecting that goes against your claim, and as such there is no contradiction because you rejected contradictory portion, but rejecting contradictory portion of scriptures is not a solution to contradiction

You so far gave no biblical evidence that this was just a vision nor any evidence that Elijah or Enoch did not ascend, on another side I gave you several verses supporting what I said, so if you really want to convince me or prove wrong or what ever, then please give some verses that refute my claim supported with those verses so far.

But if you don't see contradiction based on your rejection of a vision as real, then where did Elijah and Enoch ascend?
if it's sheol, then was that a vision of a sheol? if yes why haven't they see others in sheol? since Sheol was place for all the dead. non that those who ascended. you have a lot to answer.

come now you would poo poo any thing said

 

[Eli G]

It can be known from what the Bible tells us that although Elijah was carried away by a storm, he neither died nor left the earth.

Jehoram (king of Israel) and Jehoshaphat (king of Judah) were kings at the same time, each in their respective territory, for about 5 years (917-913 B.C.) and according to 2 Kings 3:4-27 Elisha had already succeeded Elijah in his service in Israel during this period.

However, after king Jehosaphat died in Judah, Elijah sent a letter to Jehoram, Jehoshaphat's son and successor, as recorded in 2 Chronicles 21:12-15, some time after he had ascended in the storm and Elisha had replaced him as Israel's prophet.

So we see Elijah still serving as a prophet during the reign of Jehoram in Judah. Elijah was not in Israel where Elisha was serving, and his sending the letter tells that he maybe was not in Judah either... We cannot know where he wrote that letter from; the Bible doesn't say ... but certainly not from heavens.

 

[paarsurrey]

In Matthew 17:verses 2 and 3 it says Jesus started to talk to Moses and Elijah.Who appeared out of nowhere.And in verse 4 Peter said he wanted to build three tabernacles.One for Jesus.One for Moses.And one for Elijah.But in verse 9.Jesus says it was just a vision.I think it was really them.But I also think it was a vision.Could the vision have been a vision of something 100% real?Like in Acts 2:17?But another question comes up.Why would you want to build three tabernacles for a vision?I don't think the vision was symbolical of something else.Like some of the visions in the book of revelation.Also in Luke 9:30.It says Jesus was talking with two men(Moses and Elijah).I don't think this was a resurrection.But Moses and Elijah's spirits.

"9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. "

I don't get one exactly. The Pauline-Hellenist-Christianity people believe in the vision of Paul, and base their entire religion on this vision, but have doubts on the vision of Jesus seeing Moses and Elijah, if I get one correctly, please. Right?

Regards

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

In Matthew 17:verses 2 and 3 it says Jesus started to talk to Moses and Elijah.Who appeared out of nowhere.And in verse 4 Peter said he wanted to build three tabernacles.One for Jesus.One for Moses.And one for Elijah.But in verse 9.Jesus says it was just a vision.I think it was really them.But I also think it was a vision.Could the vision have been a vision of something 100% real?Like in Acts 2:17?But another question comes up.Why would you want to build three tabernacles for a vision?I don't think the vision was symbolical of something else.Like some of the visions in the book of revelation.Also in Luke 9:30.It says Jesus was talking with two men(Moses and Elijah).I don't think this was a resurrection.But Moses and Elijah's spirits.

How did they know it was them?

 

[Frank Goad]

How did they know it was them?

I never thought of it like that!

 

[RabbiO]

How did they know it was them?

Driver’s licenses.