Morphine for the Dying

[Windwalker]

I have a question about the practice of giving morphine to the dying as part of hospice or comfort care, from a spiritual perspective. If one views death not as an end, but a transition of consciousness beyond physical death to the next 'life', wouldn't taking a narcotic as you shed this current body be clouding the mind and potentially missing valuable lessons about life?

We can say that about living life itself on a daily basis, from one day to the next as well, that being 'doped up' removes or disconnects you from fully experience life in the moment. Would it make sense to be 'doped up' as you die then, if in fact there is a continuation of consciousness beyond the current physical form? Might there not be something important to realize at the moment of death, that being on drugs might cloud and deprive you of?

I understand different religions have different perspectives about this. What are your thoughts?

 

[Secret Chief]

My experience is that it is given for pain relief.

 

[ChristineM]

I have a question about the practice of giving morphine to the dying as part of hospice or comfort care, from a spiritual perspective. If one views death not as an end, but a transition of consciousness beyond physical death to the next 'life', wouldn't taking a narcotic as you shed this current body be clouding the mind and potentially missing valuable lessons about life?

We can say that about living life itself on a daily basis, from one day to the next as well, that being 'doped up' removes or disconnects you from fully experience life in the moment. Would it make sense to be 'doped up' as you die then, if in fact there is a continuation of consciousness beyond the current physical form? Might there not be something important to realize at the moment of death, that being on drugs might cloud and deprive you of?

I understand different religions have different perspectives about this. What are your thoughts?

Or let them die in anguish and pain. Cool idea

 

[Windwalker]

My experience is that it is given for pain relief.

Yes, that is its intention. But if it clouds or distorts your perceptions, then like being drugged out or high during life makes you miss the fullness of life as it is, is that something we should want to do experiencing death, which is itself part of the life process?

If it had no effect upon the mind, that is one thing, but if it does affect the mind, then is that a good practice for someone who has not spent their life trying to escape life through drugs?

 

[Windwalker]

Or let them die in anguish and pain. Cool idea

Nature came up with that idea. Should we give morphine to mothers giving birth too?

 

[ChristineM]

Nature came up with that idea. Should we give morphine to mothers giving birth too?

Strawman. Childbirth lasts a few hours and often enough an epidural is given to ease pain, long lingering painful death takes a little longer.

And science came up with ways to ease the pain nature gave.

You want to die in pain that's up to you, it is not up to you to dictate how other people die.

 

[Secret Chief]

Yes, that is its intention. But if it clouds or distorts your perceptions, then like being drugged out or high during life makes you miss the fullness of life as it is, is that something we should want to do experiencing death, which is itself part of the life process?

If it had no effect upon the mind, that is one thing, but if it does affect the mind, then is that a good practice for someone who has not spent their life trying to escape life through drugs?

Personal choice I suppose.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I have a question about the practice of giving morphine to the dying as part of hospice or comfort care, from a spiritual perspective. If one views death not as an end, but a transition of consciousness beyond physical death to the next 'life', wouldn't taking a narcotic as you shed this current body be clouding the mind and potentially missing valuable lessons about life?

We can say that about living life itself on a daily basis, from one day to the next as well, that being 'doped up' removes or disconnects you from fully experience life in the moment. Would it make sense to be 'doped up' as you die then, if in fact there is a continuation of consciousness beyond the current physical form? Might there not be something important to realize at the moment of death, that being on drugs might cloud and deprive you of?

I understand different religions have different perspectives about this. What are your thoughts?

What possible lesson? That pain hurts? There is good news. If you do not want it for yourself you can have it written into your ADI. It is a good idea to do so because if you do not have one doctors will take what they consider the most humane course for you:

Aid-in-Dying instructions if no professional in attendance – American Clinicians Academy on Medical Aid in Dying

 

[Vinayaka]

I have a question about the practice of giving morphine to the dying as part of hospice or comfort care, from a spiritual perspective. If one views death not as an end, but a transition of consciousness beyond physical death to the next 'life', wouldn't taking a narcotic as you shed this current body be clouding the mind and potentially missing valuable lessons about life?

We can say that about living life itself on a daily basis, from one day to the next as well, that being 'doped up' removes or disconnects you from fully experience life in the moment. Would it make sense to be 'doped up' as you die then, if in fact there is a continuation of consciousness beyond the current physical form? Might there not be something important to realize at the moment of death, that being on drugs might cloud and deprive you of?

I understand different religions have different perspectives about this. What are your thoughts?

Good question. My thoughts are that one has to find a balance. If there is extreme pain, then there is also no clear consciousness, as the mind wouldn't be able to go beyond the pain. The morphine would make the pain tolerable. I'm not sure if 'doped up' is the correct word. I've never taken morphine so I can't speak from experience, but I do know that not all pain relief drugs make you feel stupider.

 

[Windwalker]

Strawman. Childbirth lasts a few hours and often enough an epidural is given to ease pain, long lingering painful death takes a little longer.

Death may only last a few hours as well or longer, just like childbirth may last a few hours, or even days. Do they always, as a routine habit give an epidural to mothers? Is it a normal practice to give them drugs to ease pain?

And science came up with ways to ease the pain nature gave.

You want to die in pain that's up to you, it is not up to you to dictate how other people die.

Who the hell said anything about dictating this for others??? But when you make it a normal practice, if you are dying, you get morphine, that isn't dictating to others itself?

 

[Brickjectivity]

I have a question about the practice of giving morphine to the dying as part of hospice or comfort care, from a spiritual perspective. If one views death not as an end, but a transition of consciousness beyond physical death to the next 'life', wouldn't taking a narcotic as you shed this current body be clouding the mind and potentially missing valuable lessons about life?

We can say that about living life itself on a daily basis, from one day to the next as well, that being 'doped up' removes or disconnects you from fully experience life in the moment. Would it make sense to be 'doped up' as you die then, if in fact there is a continuation of consciousness beyond the current physical form? Might there not be something important to realize at the moment of death, that being on drugs might cloud and deprive you of?

I understand different religions have different perspectives about this. What are your thoughts?

If morphine might hinder such a transition then why wouldn't dementia? It seems like an equivalent situation. I think morphine seems less limiting than dementia.

If I wanted to experience death fully then morphine might actually enable me to ponder the moment of death. You can have many experiences while on morphine, and it could potentially be a window to look through the great distraction that is pain....or in many cases complete agony that happens when dying.

I'd say a painful death was in some ways more awesome than a painless one, but I wouldn't choose a painful death over a painless one.

 

[Windwalker]

What possible lesson? That pain hurts?

No, not a lesson in pain. But a lesson in leaving behind this life in this body. Those who see death as a transition, even if the ride may be bumpy and hurt a bit, does that mean you want to be floating in a sea of drugs for the whole trip? Is that all there is to the trip? The bumps? No realizations? No awakening to the "great beyond" as one might choose to call it?

There is good news. If you do not want it for yourself you can have it written into your ADI. It is a good idea to do so because if you do not have one doctors will take what they consider the most humane course for you:

Aid-in-Dying instructions if no professional in attendance – American Clinicians Academy on Medical Aid in Dying

Yes, I know it can be requested. Just wondering what others thoughts are about making that choice.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Death may only last a few hours as well or longer, just like childbirth may last a few hours, or even days. Do they always, as a routine habit give an epidural to mothers? Is it a normal practice to give them drugs to ease pain?


Who the hell said anything about dictating this for others??? But when you make it a normal practice, if you are dying, you get morphine, that isn't dictating to others itself?

Once again, if you plan ahead and have a written notice readily available you will not get morphine. Even if you are unconscious and unaware. You need to make sure that everyone knows about it. Your primary care doctor needs a copy. If you end up in some sort of assisted living the facility needs a copy. If you are still at home make sure that your spouse, children, etc. know where it is. If you don't want morphine and make your wishes clear ahead of time, you may not be able to do so later, they will follow your instructions. At least in the US. And I am very sure that European countries would have the same sort of policy. Who knows about Australia, Those wankers are crazy,

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, not a lesson in pain. But a lesson in leaving behind this life in this body. Those who see death as a transition, even if the ride may be bumpy and hurt a bit, does that mean you want to be floating in a sea of drugs for the whole trip? Is that all there is to the trip? The bumps? No realizations? No awakening to the "great beyond" as one might choose to call it?


Yes, I know it can be requested. Just wondering what others thoughts are about making that choice.

Okay, reasonable enough. And you will find a whole range of answers. Some will say shoot me up with everything that you have and some will just ask for a bullet to bite on.

 

[Windwalker]

If morphine might hinder such a transition then why wouldn't dementia? It seems like an equivalent situation. I think morphine seems less limiting than dementia.

That is a good point to consider. Assume however, the person did not have dementia undergoing the death process?

If I wanted to experience death fully then morphine might actually enable me to ponder the moment of death. You can have many experiences while on morphine, and it could potentially be a window to look through the great distraction that is pain....or in many cases complete agony that happens when dying.

That is something I have considered as well. Drugs can be an 'assist' to spiritual experiences, to be sure. However, that comes at a price of distortion. To have a full presence of mind awakening to the spiritual, is always superior and more meaningful, impactful, and lasting than being high to get there. It's kind of 'cheating the Universe', in a way. The human mind does not need drugs in order to 'see God'.

I'd say a painful death was in some ways more awesome than a painless one, but I wouldn't choose a painful death over a painless one.

Nor would I, but if it meant missing out on a valuable awakening experience, one would think it wouldn't be worth it. You only get to die once in a lifetime.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I have a question about the practice of giving morphine to the dying as part of hospice or comfort care, from a spiritual perspective. If one views death not as an end, but a transition of consciousness beyond physical death to the next 'life', wouldn't taking a narcotic as you shed this current body be clouding the mind and potentially missing valuable lessons about life?

We can say that about living life itself on a daily basis, from one day to the next as well, that being 'doped up' removes or disconnects you from fully experience life in the moment. Would it make sense to be 'doped up' as you die then, if in fact there is a continuation of consciousness beyond the current physical form? Might there not be something important to realize at the moment of death, that being on drugs might cloud and deprive you of?

I understand different religions have different perspectives about this. What are your thoughts?

I think that your post is a good illustration of the harm that religion can do. You're advocating extreme cruelty and you probably don't even realize it.

"Maybe we shouldn't try to ease the pain of the dying?" Give your head a shake.

 

[Windwalker]

BTW, the reason I ask this is because I've had three family member go through the dying process in the past 5 years. Is it always necessary to give the dying morphine because they may be pain associated with it? The comparison to childbirth is a good one. Isn't dying, a birthing process itself, if you see it as a transition and not an extinction?

 

[ChristineM]

Death may only last a few hours as well or longer, just like childbirth may last a few hours, or even days. Do they always, as a routine habit give an epidural to mothers? Is it a normal practice to give them drugs to ease pain?


Who the hell said anything about dictating this for others??? But when you make it a normal practice, if you are dying, you get morphine, that isn't dictating to others itself?

I am talking long term pain where pain killing morphine is required, as i assumed you meant by your op. An epidural is given in 60 to 70% of childbirth.

Who the hell is trying to impose personal religious belief to remove comfort in death?

 

[Windwalker]

I think that your post is a good illustration of the harm that religion can do. You're advocating extreme cruelty and you probably don't even realize itm

"Maybe we shouldn't try to ease the pain of the dying?" Give your head a shake.

I'm not aware of Christianity teaching that you shouldn't take morphine for dying. Don't think this is coming from a religious teaching. I explained my thoughts as to why we might not wish to chose it for ourselves, if you view death as transitional, and not an annihilation.

 

[Windwalker]

I am talking long term pain where pain killing morphine is required, as i assumed you meant by your op. An epidural is given in 60 to 70% of childbirth.

Who the hell is trying to impose personal religious belief to remove comfort in death?

Why the hell did you think I was suggesting it be forced upon others?