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More Snowflakes Vs Offensive Symbol Controversy

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Have any of the veterans buried due to Hitler complained?
They can't. Regardless, Hitler has no place, in name, symbol, or image, in a cemetary for US veterans. You might as do it in a Jewish Graveyard. We are under no obligation to honor a genocidal tyrant.
I guess I see it about as bad as one of the small towns I used to live by, Monsanto, --the company that made Agent Orange during the Vietnam War--has a bench in the memory of Veitnam Veterans, or, in reality, some of thise they helped kill with their ****.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
In the middle ages the Catholic church slaughtered thousands in the crusades. So we should not allow any Catholic symbol such as crosses.
Catholicism does not own a monopoly in the Cross. The Nazi Swastika is a very specific thing, and doesn't tend to look overly like other swastikas. Amd, don't forget, I have singled out der Fuehrer being mentioned. I don't believe I have specifically singled out the swastika.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
"Establishment" means that the government pick one religion and says that is the official religion of the country. Allowing or not allowing certain symbols has nothing to do with establishment.
So you don't see a problem with government officials only allowing specific religions (their own, of course) while disallowing displays from other religions. You don't see this as promotional or preferential treatment?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
They can't.

Problem solved.
Regardless, Hitler has no place, in name, symbol, or image, in a cemetary for US veterans. You might as do it in a Jewish Graveyard. We are under no obligation to honor a genocidal tyrant.
I guess I see it about as bad as one of the small towns I used to live by, Monsanto, --the company that made Agent Orange during the Vietnam War--has a bench in the memory of Veitnam Veterans, or, in reality, some of thise they helped kill with their ****.
The nastier side of history deserves to be preserved IMO.
While you say Hitler is honored, I say that Hitler's legacy
is there for all to see. "Honor" is your inference, not mine.
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
So you don't see a problem with government officials only allowing specific religions (their own, of course) while disallowing displays from other religions. You don't see this as promotional or preferential treatment?
Again, this has nothing to do with "establishment". Of course all religions should be allowed. By excluding all religions, only the atheists get what they want. Why shouldn't religious people get what they want?
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
Again, this has nothing to do with "establishment". Of course all religions should be allowed. By excluding all religions, only the atheists get what they want. Why shouldn't religious people get what they want?
Not only has this nothing to do with establishment, it has nothing to do with religion either. A swastika is not a religious symbol.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Problem solved.

The nastier side of history deserves to be preserved IMO.
While you say Hitler is honored, I say that Hitler's legacy
is there for all to see. "Honor" is your inference, not mine.
We know that without the reference. The world at large still wont let Germany live it down. An enemy to humanity deserves no such commemoration. Museums and history books are the appropriate places for these annals of history.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
We know that without the reference. The world at large still wont let Germany live it down. An enemy to humanity deserves no such commemoration. Museums and history books are the appropriate places for these annals of history.
History is more alive if it's all around us.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
History is more alive if it's all around us.
We don't need Confederate flags and Civil War memorials to remember it. There is no need for Hitler to have his name and cause honored in such a way. Their death for their Fuehrer und Vaterland, it has no place next to those who were killed fighting their Fuehrer and delusional Reich.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
We don't need Confederate flags and Civil War memorials to remember it. There is no need for Hitler to have his name and cause honored in such a way. Their death for their Fuehrer und Vaterland, it has no place next to those who were killed fighting their Fuehrer and delusional Reich.
Hmmm....might be a good idea to destroy all those Buddha statues.
They're mentioned in history books anyway.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Hmmm....might be a good idea to destroy all those Buddha statues.
They're mentioned in history books anyway.
Were we at war with a Buddhist regime who was slaughtering and butchering with impunity for a great deal of time by keeping their genocide hidden from the world?
And, as I reminded another, it is their deaths honoring Hitler and Third Reich I am opposed to, particularly and especially as it is a veterans graveyard. It was a great atrocity, we know who and what they died for without being reminded, just as we know who thier Fuehrer was. The symbols on their markers say enough without the extra effort.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
We know that without the reference. The world at large still wont let Germany live it down. An enemy to humanity deserves no such commemoration. Museums and history books are the appropriate places for these annals of history.
After nearly 80 years those stone have become a museum. If the signs would have been removed 70 years ago, it would have been OK.
And it isn't that those sites generate any veneration for fascism. They are just there as reminders.
Same goes for Civil War memorials. If they are old, let them stand as a reminder. They are history.
Otoh, if someone wants to show a swastika or fly a Confederate flag today, push back. That's not history, that's veneration of a bad idea.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Same goes for Civil War memorials.
That one really is a different discussion because it is legit that a TON of those did go up during Civil Rights movements. And, no, we don't need to use public space to commemorate a time of a very deep national divide. Robert E. Lee didn't even want it, nor himself as a statue.
That's not history, that's veneration of a bad idea.
That's what the inscription is. The symbol is adequate. An Iron Cross with a Swastika in the center, it will be generations before we fail to instantly recognize that. The inscription is unnecessary, and inappropriate for a US veterans cemetery as it does commemorate Hitler with an unnecessary extra step.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
For what?
I have heard of ignorant Westerners going to Asia and getting all offended when they see the swastikas on temples, thinking that Buddhists are Nazis. Sometimes items from Asia with swastikas on them in end up in the West for sale and causes an uproar, and triggers recalls and much apologizing. There's also a controversy in Germanic Heathenry over whether it's appropriate to display sunwheels, even though those are the most sacred symbols in the religion, going back to European pre-history, aside from the hammer.

Personally, people need to educate themselves about different religions and put things in context.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
That's what the inscription is. The symbol is adequate. An Iron Cross with a Swastika in the center, it will be generations before we fail to instantly recognize that. The inscription is unnecessary, and inappropriate for a US veterans cemetery as it does commemorate Hitler with an unnecessary extra step.
I agree. As I said, it should have been removed 70 years ago.
The fact that it wasn't makes it historical. The time for action in this case has long been gone. Now it only serves as a reminder.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
For what?
People always have their reasons for being offended by something.
Some Muslims (eg, Taliban) are offended by other religions.
Some Ameristanians are offended by German soldiers' gravestones.
There are so many offended by so many different things.
This doesn't mean all offensive things should be eliminated.
 
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