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More on vaping

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-02-vapers-chemical-genome-linked-cancer.html (Vapers show chemical changes in their genome linked to cancer)

Biologically important changes in DNA seen in smokers are also being found in people who vape, according to a new study published in the journal Epigenetics. A team of scientists at the Keck School of Medicine of USC have found people who vape exhibit similar chemical modifications in their overall genome and in parts of their DNA as people who smoke cigarettes. These specific chemical alterations, also known as epigenetic changes, can cause genes to malfunction — and are commonly found in nearly all types of human cancer as well as other serious diseases. The findings add to a growing list of health concerns associated with vaping, which is perceived by many as a safer alternative to smoking. E-cigarette use has soared among youth, with more than 25 percent of high school students now using the products, according to the CDC. The new study, led by Ahmad Besaratinia, Ph.D., associate professor at the Keck School of Medicine of USC, examined a group of people matched for age, gender and race, divided equally into three categories: vapers only, smokers only and a control group of people who neither vaped nor smoked. Blood was drawn from each of the participants and tested for changes in levels of two specific chemical tags attached to DNA that are known to impact gene activity and/or function. These chemical tags include: (1) methyl groups in a specific DNA sequence, named Long Interspersed Nucleotide Element 1 (LINE-1); and (2) hydroxymethyl groups in the genome overall. Changes in the levels of these chemical tags, which are important for genomic stability and regulation of gene expression, occur in various stages of development, as well as in diseases such as cancer. Of the 45 study participants, vapers and smokers both showed significant reduction in the levels of both chemical tags compared to the control group. This is the first study to show that vapers, like smokers, have these biologically important changes detectable in their blood cells. "That doesn't mean that these people are going to develop cancer," said Besaratinia. "But what we are seeing is that the same changes in chemical tags detectable in tumors from cancer patients are also found in people who vape or smoke, presumably due to exposure to cancer-causing chemicals present in cigarette smoke and, generally at much lower levels, in electronic cigarettes' vapor."

And this:

Chief Medical Officer urges ministers to take health concerns over vaping seriously | Daily Mail Online (Chief Medical Officer urges ministers to take health concerns over vaping seriously as he fears a repeat of 1950s scandal when worries about dangers of tobacco were widely ignored)
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
A study of only 45 people is hardly scientific, however I do think vaping is just as bad as cigarette smoking
 

ecco

Veteran Member
however I do think vaping is just as bad as cigarette smoking
Are you aware that there are E-liquids available with 0% nicotine?

Are you aware that burning tobacco produces many hazardous chemicals that vaping does not?

Are you aware that cigarette smoke residue clings to clothing, windshields, and TV whereas vape residue does not?

Are you aware that no one died from vaping related problems until recently?
Are you aware that the reported illnesses and deaths are linked to people using "bathtub" liquids?
 

ecco

Veteran Member
The new study, led by Ahmad Besaratinia, Ph.D., associate professor at the Keck School of Medicine of USC, examined a group of people matched for age, gender and race, divided equally into three categories: vapers only, smokers only and a control group of people who neither vaped nor smoked.
Your quoted writeup does not mention the level of nicotine that was present in the E-liquid nor does it mention the source of the E-liquids. It also do not mention the brand and type of cigarettes used.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Are you aware that no one died from vaping related problems until recently?
Are you aware that the reported illnesses and deaths are linked to people using "bathtub" liquids?

Are you aware how long it took before smoking was definitively proved to cause cancer, and how this no doubt contributed to so many deaths - when so many became addicted - when they might have not be dead if they just hadn't started? People didn't die shortly after taking up smoking but it certainly had/has an impact on most long-term smokers. Not possible that similar but different issues will occur with vaping?
 

PureX

Veteran Member
It stands to reason that inhaling chemicals manufactured for commercial profit, rather than for increasing or maintaining good health, would end up doing harm to our bodies.

But we humans rarely stand by reason when our pleasure, habits, and profits are involved. So ... "stupid is as stupid does", I guess.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Are you aware that there are E-liquids available with 0% nicotine?
Actually, for some, a little bit/small amount of nicotine can have some benefits (it's called the smokers paradox). As for the rest, I've suspected it's not perfectly safe, but do see the obvious distinction between smoke and vapor, and that vaping does lack the chemicals of cigarettes. However, I imagine it's not really healthy to inhale much of more than regular air. But, with that, I do think they should be promoted for smoking cessation, as it lets smokers reduce nicotine levels, gradually ween themselves at a tolerable level, and immediately ends the inhalation of the combusted by products of scores of ingredients, many that are carcinogenic.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
It stands to reason that inhaling chemicals manufactured for commercial profit, rather than for increasing or maintaining good health, would end up doing harm to our bodies.
When cigarettes in China were a state industry, did the lack of profit make them safe?
(I always thought it was weird they had government workers paid to smoke them for quality control.)
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
Vaping is 99% propylene glycol (anti freeze) a suspected carcinogen that obviously isn't present in natural cigarettes, to claim that propylene glycol is somehow healthier than natural cigarettes is completely impossible to know at this early point, but it may well be just as bad or worse.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Are you aware how long it took before smoking was definitively proved to cause cancer, and how this no doubt contributed to so many deaths - when so many became addicted - when they might have not be dead if they just hadn't started? People didn't die shortly after taking up smoking but it certainly had/has an impact on most long-term smokers. Not possible that similar but different issues will occur with vaping?
The key words being "just hadn't started". I don't know why people start smoking. I couldn't even tell you why I started. Nevertheless, I was a lifelong on again and off again smoker. Five years ago I started vaping with 5% nicotine. Today I vape with 0% nicotine. The smell of tobacco was so bad in the car and the house that I stopped smoking cigarettes in either. Vaping has no such problems.

Throat burn and coughing are long gone.

No one has died in a house fire caused by falling asleep on the couch while vaping.
No one has started a roadside fire from throwing a vape pen out the window.
Exploding batteries are a thing of the past.


So, on a scale of good to bad:
No smoking
Vaping
Cigarettes
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Vaping is 99% propylene glycol (anti freeze) a suspected carcinogen that obviously isn't present in natural cigarettes, to claim that propylene glycol is somehow healthier than natural cigarettes is completely impossible to know at this early point, but it may well be just as bad or worse.
Where did you get your information, a vape scare-mongering site?

E-Liquid: propylene glycol
Antifreeze: ethylene glycol

Is propylene glycol the same as ethylene glycol?

The main difference between propylene glycol and ethylene is the level of toxicity. Propylene glycol has a very low toxicity, which is why it is also found in cosmetics and personal care products, whereas ethylene glycol is poisonous and must be handled with caution to restrict any human or animal exposure.Dec 5, 2018​

Many people also believe that dihydrogen monoxide is dangerous when ingested.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
yeah right, propylene glycol is used as anti freeze, look it up
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
yeah right, propylene glycol is used as anti freeze, look it up
It's also used as a shelf extender for many foods including just about anything with vanilla. You can see for yourself. It's not listed as a carcinogenic chemical, or suspected carcinigen. It's also not processed in the body the same way as ethelyn glycol, which is converted to a dangerous level of oxalic acid.
Is Propylene Glycol the Same As Antifreeze? | BestFoodFacts.org
What it can do in high enough doses is be converted into too high lactic acid doses for people with compromised kidneys to be able to handle.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
It stands to reason that inhaling chemicals manufactured for commercial profit, rather than for increasing or maintaining good health, would end up doing harm to our bodies.

But we humans rarely stand by reason when our pleasure, habits, and profits are involved. So ... "stupid is as stupid does", I guess.
Im pretty sure my inhaler was made with the intention of profit, and yet it provides medical benefits and relief.
It goes to reason that inhaling anything that isn't approved for medical uses is probably not healthy, regardless the intentions behind its creation.
 
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