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More love directed at the Mormons!
- Thread starter Katzpur
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No, I've never heard of that.joeboonda said:Hello, hope all are well today, I still sick. I had a question about Masonry. Have you all ever heard of something called the sign of Baphomet? I would put a picture of it, but my computer skills are very poor. Thanks.
Joeboonda
nutshell
Well-Known Member
I would say the prophet Brigham Young was not wrong at all in what he said. Jesus was the only begotten of the Father, it says as much in 1 John 4:9. "In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him." When Brigham Young said "Begotten of the flesh" I do not think he was implying God had sex with Mary. Rather, he was speaking of the literal physical relationship between the Father and the Son. From a biological point of view, Jesus has half of his genes from his mortal mother Mary and half his genes from his perfect Father. Does this mean the Father MUST have had sex with Mary? Of course not. Even us puny humans today can create life without sex. Surely God can do the same. An old definition of beget (of which begotten is the past participle of) found in the Oxford English says beget is to "generate or procreate." It is not tied to a sexual act.joeboonda said:
You did not come off as antagonistic at all. And I think most LDS posters would completely agree with you when you say you believe in Christ alone for salvation. I know I agree. As far as works go, the scriptures teach that these things are required. I would point you to Jesus' own baptism by John as setting the perfect example for us, as well as scriptures such as John 3:5, Luke 3:3, Romans 6:4, Epheshians 4:5, 1 Peter 3:21, and so on. Now, I want to be clear.joeboonda said:
The scriptures also teach that faith without works is dead (see James 2). However, considering that we are imperfect and make mistakes all the time, which means we are unclean and no unclean thing can enter the kingdom of God (3 Nephi 27:19) all the works in the world won't get us there. Only "those who have washed their garments in [Christ's] blood, because of their faith" (same scripture in 3 Nephi) can get in.
I hope you see that we too believe it is only through the grace of God that we enter his Kingdom. We must perform the works because that is what was taught. Our works are a demonstration of our faith, but in the end, it is that faith and belief in Christ that makes us able to return to the Father.
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
Hi, I am trying to learn how to copy scriptures, pictures to stuff, but I am very ignorant of computers. This sign of baphomet, there is one that is a pentagram, upside-down star, but I am not talking about that one. I found a picture from googling it, and its the 3rd one down on this website: www.exposingsatanism.org/signsymbols.htm Reason I asked, is I have learned it was worn by Aleister Crowley, who was a Satanist in the early 1900's, and was worn by The Sovereign Grand Commander, Henry C. Clausen, 33rd degree Mason. It is also found as the centerpiece of the main Masonic Temple Room at the headquarters of the Mother Supreme Council of the World in Washington, D.C. It is supposedly a symbol of Satan, that only Masons of the 30,31,and 33rd degrees are taught about.
I wanted to share a quote from General Albert Pike, a 33rd degree mason, once the Grand Commander, Soverign Pontiff of Universal Freemasonry: "That which we must say to the crowd is: we worship a god, but it is the god that one adores without superstition. To you Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the brethren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian doctrine. If Lucifer were not God, would Adonay (Jesus)...caluminate (spread false and harmful statements about) him?...Yes, Lucifer is God..." (from A.c> De La Rive, La Femme et l'Enfant la Franc-Maconnerie Universelle, p.588)
I was hoping for your ideas about this, because I heard that many Mormons are also Masons, which, from my studies, when you get to the very top, it is really a form of Baal worship, Baphomet, or Satan being the supreme being to which most unknowingly are connecting with when they join masonry and take the first masonic oath. Like I said, most people don't know this stuff, I am not saying anything bad about you, I was hoping for your thoughts on it. I do not know if you all are masons, or what you know about it, I do not wish to tell you what you believe, lol. Just want some feedback so we can all learn a bit more.
Thanks,.
Joeboonda
I wanted to share a quote from General Albert Pike, a 33rd degree mason, once the Grand Commander, Soverign Pontiff of Universal Freemasonry: "That which we must say to the crowd is: we worship a god, but it is the god that one adores without superstition. To you Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the brethren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian doctrine. If Lucifer were not God, would Adonay (Jesus)...caluminate (spread false and harmful statements about) him?...Yes, Lucifer is God..." (from A.c> De La Rive, La Femme et l'Enfant la Franc-Maconnerie Universelle, p.588)
I was hoping for your ideas about this, because I heard that many Mormons are also Masons, which, from my studies, when you get to the very top, it is really a form of Baal worship, Baphomet, or Satan being the supreme being to which most unknowingly are connecting with when they join masonry and take the first masonic oath. Like I said, most people don't know this stuff, I am not saying anything bad about you, I was hoping for your thoughts on it. I do not know if you all are masons, or what you know about it, I do not wish to tell you what you believe, lol. Just want some feedback so we can all learn a bit more.
Thanks,.
Joeboonda
nutshell
Well-Known Member
I had never heard that about Masons. It's very interesting. I checked the symbol on the website you linked and I have never seen it before. I can definetly say it is not a symbol or sign used in any LDS temples.joeboonda said:
Mormons are not Masons. Mormons are LDS>
I know of the reports of early Church leaders, including Joseph Smith, being Masons, but the information typically comes from anti-Mormon websites. One goal of the Masons was to recreate the temple rites of the ancient Jews and so it is easy to see where comparisons may be made.Your description of Masons seems to conclude they were a Satanic bunch. In the temple, we learn of God's plan for us, focusing on Christ and overcoming Satan. The two sound a lot different to me.
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
Hi, I would like to share a few more things about Masonry, if you will. My information could be wrong, so feedback is appreciated. The reason I bring this up, is because of the association of many Mormons to Masonry.
Like, I say, most Masons don't ever learn of this until they are way up there. I have learned, that ultimately, the very top leaders, and thus Masonry itself is actually controlled by Satan. He may be called Baphomet, the God of Baal worship, (ancient sun-god worship). The eastern star, is actually an upside-down star, also called a pentagram, another symbol of Baphomet. Often-times it is pictured with a goat head in it, the horns are the top 2 points, then the ears, then the bottom point is the 'goat-tee', if you will. This would be called the satanic goat of Mendez, or the God of Lust. (I know you probably do not look at it like that, but the top leaders of Masonry do). Masonry uses some symbols of ancient Baal worship, like the 'all-seeing eye' from the Egyptian god, Osiris, and the obelisk, it looks like the washington monument, it represents a male sex organ and is from ancient Baal worship too. That stuff is on our currency too, that's kinda interesting.
I have learned, (and again, may be wrong), that the red fez, many keep under a glass dome, is actually a shrine to Allah. In the 8th century, Muslim hords overran the Moroccan city of Fez and butchered 50,000 Christians. The streets ran red with blood. The Muslim murderers dipped their caps in the blood in honor of Allah. Theses blood-stained caps were called fezzes, idols dedicated, some say, to a false god (Satan). Another occult item they have is the Masonic aprons. Aprons are worn by high level Masons and are packed with occult symbols. They even say the apron is one's righteousness at the Great White Throne Judgement. Of course, righteousness comes only from Jesus, not from an apron. Plus only the damned appear at that judgement, no one will be found righteous there. I am told that to become a Shriner one swares a Moslem oath whith one hand on the Koran, thus praying to Allah, and calling him the 'god of your fathers', unwittingly. I think it is the first Masonic oath, they ask, "Who comes here?" At a point, one says, "I'm in darkness and I want to be brought to light..." At that point, one is actually denying that Jesus is the light ("I am the light of the world..."), thus even calling him a liar. The word of God teaches that salvation comes by faith in Christ, But Masonry says good works will get one to that 'big lodge' in the sky. I believe masonry is a dark spiritual force, blending many ungodly religions. At least that is what I have been taught and learned. We don't join lodges and are warned against them. Well, show me my ignorance, lol, I am very interested in what you know about Masonry.
Thanks,
Joeboonda
Like, I say, most Masons don't ever learn of this until they are way up there. I have learned, that ultimately, the very top leaders, and thus Masonry itself is actually controlled by Satan. He may be called Baphomet, the God of Baal worship, (ancient sun-god worship). The eastern star, is actually an upside-down star, also called a pentagram, another symbol of Baphomet. Often-times it is pictured with a goat head in it, the horns are the top 2 points, then the ears, then the bottom point is the 'goat-tee', if you will. This would be called the satanic goat of Mendez, or the God of Lust. (I know you probably do not look at it like that, but the top leaders of Masonry do). Masonry uses some symbols of ancient Baal worship, like the 'all-seeing eye' from the Egyptian god, Osiris, and the obelisk, it looks like the washington monument, it represents a male sex organ and is from ancient Baal worship too. That stuff is on our currency too, that's kinda interesting.
I have learned, (and again, may be wrong), that the red fez, many keep under a glass dome, is actually a shrine to Allah. In the 8th century, Muslim hords overran the Moroccan city of Fez and butchered 50,000 Christians. The streets ran red with blood. The Muslim murderers dipped their caps in the blood in honor of Allah. Theses blood-stained caps were called fezzes, idols dedicated, some say, to a false god (Satan). Another occult item they have is the Masonic aprons. Aprons are worn by high level Masons and are packed with occult symbols. They even say the apron is one's righteousness at the Great White Throne Judgement. Of course, righteousness comes only from Jesus, not from an apron. Plus only the damned appear at that judgement, no one will be found righteous there. I am told that to become a Shriner one swares a Moslem oath whith one hand on the Koran, thus praying to Allah, and calling him the 'god of your fathers', unwittingly. I think it is the first Masonic oath, they ask, "Who comes here?" At a point, one says, "I'm in darkness and I want to be brought to light..." At that point, one is actually denying that Jesus is the light ("I am the light of the world..."), thus even calling him a liar. The word of God teaches that salvation comes by faith in Christ, But Masonry says good works will get one to that 'big lodge' in the sky. I believe masonry is a dark spiritual force, blending many ungodly religions. At least that is what I have been taught and learned. We don't join lodges and are warned against them. Well, show me my ignorance, lol, I am very interested in what you know about Masonry.
Thanks,
Joeboonda
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
I am so glad to hear that I am wrong that many Mormons are associated with Masonry. That is great! I am very leary of Masonry from what I have learned, and am simply glad you are not associated with it. I had just heard that many Mormons were, I had read that Joseph Smith jumped from a 1st degree to a sublime degree Mason in only one day. (History of the Church by Joseph Smith, Vol.4, pp. 551-552). So you can see my concern about the connection there. I am just trying to put it all together, I know you are a wonderful person as are most all Mormons. Thanks for taking a stand, though, that is very good. I'm glad to know you are not associated with Masonry.nutshell said:
Sincerely,
Joeboonda
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
No,no, no, I do not use that equation. I do not think Mormons are Satanists, nooooooo! We are from a thread where I think Aqualung was trying to get people to challenge Mormons on stuff, and nobody was responding. We are just enjoying a friendly bit of conversation about our beliefs and how they agree or disagree. I assumed they want people to ask them so they can clear up misconceptions and we can learn, I am not picking on them. I love them. I don't see Satan all around, he can only be in one place at a time. If these folks don't want to talk to me they will tell me and I will honor that, but I think we are trying to make some progress, at least I am. How can one learn if one does not present arguements, and ask questions? That is why we are all here anyway, right? These are good honest people, and so am I, we just all trying to learn, thats all.YmirGF said:
Sincerely,
Joeboonda
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
The fez is not traditional Arab or Muslim headgear. It is Turkish and predates Islam as a matter of fact. Wearing head covering is almost as binding on Muslims as it is on strictly orthodox Jews. One can see a great deal of resemblance between the fez and the yalmukah. The taj is a headgear usually worn by sheikhs tat combines the fez and the turban, and it was worn by holy men and mystics. As to the masons, my maternal grandfather was a 32nd degree mason, and he was a faithful and dutiful calvinist Presbyterian his whole life.joeboonda said:
Baha`i's don't join secret societies, so the Masons are not for me. I would also point that only Masons of the Eastern orders wear the fez Scotish Rite masons (like my grandfather) do not wear a fez. The Scotish Rite has been linked historically with the Knights Templar who were the subject of a crusade and pogrom by the Roman Church.
Regards,
Scott
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
I forgot to mention:
The "Redcap" legend has to do with Celtic mythology dating to before Christianity.
"
A Redcap, also known as a "powrie," is a type of malevolent murderous Goblin, Elf or Fairy found in British folklore. They inhabit ruined castles found along the border between England and Scotland. Redcaps are said to murder travelers who stray into their homes, staining their hats with their victims' blood. Redcaps are very fast in spite of the heavy iron pikes they wield and the iron-shod boots they wear. Outrunning the buck-toothed little daemons is quite impossible; the only way to escape one is to quote a passage from the Bible.
The most infamous redcap of all was Robin Redcap. As the familiar of the Bad Lord Soulis, Robin wreaked much harm and ruin in the lands of his master's dwelling, Hermitage Castle. Men were murdered, women cruelly abused, and dark arts were practiced. So much infamy and blasphemy was said to have been committed at Hermitage Castle that the great stone keep was thought to be sinking under a great weight of sin, as though the very ground wanted to hide it from the sight of God.
Yet Lord Soulis, for all the evil he wrought, met a very horrible end. Lord Soulis was taken to the Nine Stane Rigg, a circle of stones hard by the castle, and there he was wrapped in lead and boiled to death in a great cauldron. Such was the end of Bad Lord Soulis, as remembered in ancient ballad.
Redcap is also a British Army nickname for a military policeman.
Redcap was also the name of a popular BBC show in the eighties.
Wikpedia
The "Redcap" legend has to do with Celtic mythology dating to before Christianity.
"
A Redcap, also known as a "powrie," is a type of malevolent murderous Goblin, Elf or Fairy found in British folklore. They inhabit ruined castles found along the border between England and Scotland. Redcaps are said to murder travelers who stray into their homes, staining their hats with their victims' blood. Redcaps are very fast in spite of the heavy iron pikes they wield and the iron-shod boots they wear. Outrunning the buck-toothed little daemons is quite impossible; the only way to escape one is to quote a passage from the Bible.
The most infamous redcap of all was Robin Redcap. As the familiar of the Bad Lord Soulis, Robin wreaked much harm and ruin in the lands of his master's dwelling, Hermitage Castle. Men were murdered, women cruelly abused, and dark arts were practiced. So much infamy and blasphemy was said to have been committed at Hermitage Castle that the great stone keep was thought to be sinking under a great weight of sin, as though the very ground wanted to hide it from the sight of God.
Yet Lord Soulis, for all the evil he wrought, met a very horrible end. Lord Soulis was taken to the Nine Stane Rigg, a circle of stones hard by the castle, and there he was wrapped in lead and boiled to death in a great cauldron. Such was the end of Bad Lord Soulis, as remembered in ancient ballad.
Redcap is also a British Army nickname for a military policeman.
Redcap was also the name of a popular BBC show in the eighties.
Wikpedia
muslimbrother
Member
Is this a christian forum, or a forum for all religions
I am a new user, and i am a bit confused
If any1 can help, i would appreciate it
I am a new user, and i am a bit confused
If any1 can help, i would appreciate it
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
This is a discussion forum for Abrahamic beliefs including Judaism, Christianity, Islam and the Baha`i Faith. "Discussion" as opposed to "Debate".muslimbrother said:
Welcome, good to see you.
Salaam Aleykum,
Scott
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I suspect that the books on Mormonism were found in the "cults" section of your bookstore. That's where "Christian" bookstores usually stock them. In my church, we aren't taught the doctrines of other denominations. We pretty much just stick to what we believe instead of discussing what other churches teach.joeboonda said: