More Censorship

[Revoltingest]

Long ago, Betty Boop & other cartoons were pulled from all TV.
HBO has pulled Gone With The Wind.
Other shows, movies,& characters (eg, Apu) are being censored for being offensive to various groups.

Are we going to be better as a result of seeing them?

 

[Windwalker]

How exactly is it you consider what content a business wishes to include or exclude in its available inventory to be considered "censorship". Is it censorship that the local Piggly Wiggly doesn't carry ocra or turnips in their produce section?

What is censorship? "Censorship is when an authority (such as a government or religion) cuts out or suppresses communication." Censorship - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you consider HBO to be the government or a religion that has authority over us?

 

[Valjean]

But they're being cut because they depict attitudes that we now find offensive. Do we need to be protected from exposure to offensive ideas or archaic attitudes. Would the comparison with modern attitudes not be culturally and historically educational?

I saw a rerun of I Love Lucy last night. Ricky was smoking a cigarette. I'm trying to maintain my composure and to restrain myself from running out and buying a pack of Camels.

 

[Revoltingest]

How exactly is it you consider what content a business wishes to include or exclude in its available inventory to be considered "censorship".

I think you're mistaking my post to be about 1st Amendment rights.
Not so.
Self censorship by a business is certainly their right....a right I don't oppose.
Throughout the history of movie & television, there's been much of that.
(Government censorship also existed, but that's another issue.)
But I dislike losing access to historical culture just because it offends some.

 

[Stevicus]

Long ago, Betty Boop & other cartoons were pulled from all TV.
HBO has pulled Gone With The Wind.
Other shows, movies,& characters (eg, Apu) are being censored for being offensive to various groups.

Are we going to be better as a result of seeing them?

I think they also pulled Song of the South. I don't think they need to censor them entirely, though. They can still be kept for educational purposes, perhaps with some disclaimer or explanation attached.

Some might want to censor people like Mark Twain or Al Jolson for written works or performances which are deemed offensive by today's standards. But these weren't really bad people or deliberately trying to hurt anyone. They were probably "liberals" for their time, so some of this needs to be put into proper perspective.

 

[Altfish]

I think you're mistaking my post to be about 1st Amendment rights.
Not so.
Self censorship by a business is certainly their right....a right I don't oppose.
Throughout the history of movie & television, there's been much of that.
(Government censorship also existed, but that's another issue.)
But I dislike losing access to historical culture just because it offends some.

It is a difficult balancing act. There was a BBC Comedy Show called 'Til Death Us Do Part, it aired in the 60/70s; the main character, Alf Garnett, was a right wing racist who made many derogatory comments about black and Asian people. His live in son-in-law was a socialist who called him out on these opinions. I thought the show was funny at the time; but I would cringe nowadays
Then the likes of The Black and White Minstrel Show where white actors 'blacked' up and sang in stereo typical accents.
Add to that Love Thy Neighbour - these were horribly offensive shows that were at the time accepted.
It is right that they are no longer shown, perhaps they should be available as archive to show that we are progressing.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

I think you're mistaking my post to be about 1st Amendment rights.
Not so.
Self censorship by a business is certainly their right....a right I don't oppose.
Throughout the history of movie & television, there's been much of that.
(Government censorship also existed, but that's another issue.)
But I dislike losing access to historical culture just because it offends some.

I suppose that somehow, we’ll all just have to get over it.
Not many Model T’s being produced, because cultural norms of safety, comfort, gas milage, noise, etc.... have all changed (one can easily argue, for the better). Want a Model T? Want a copy of Gone with the Wind?.....Buy one. Cling to it as much as you want.
In 20 years, if you want a big gas-powered car,.... then buy one of those oldies. Meanwhile time and progress march onward.

 

[Revoltingest]

I suppose that somehow, we’ll all just have to get over it.
Not many Model T’s being produced, because cultural norms of safety, comfort, gas milage, noise, etc.... have all changed (one can easily argue, for the better). Want a Model T? Want a copy of Gone with the Wind?.....Buy one. Cling to it as much as you want.
In 20 years, if you want a big gas-powered car,.... then buy one of those oldies. Meanwhile time and progress march onward.

I still have a 1908 Duplex truck.
He has different duties from Mr Van.

 

[BSM1]

Now they tell that they have cancelled "COPS". How am I going to keep up with that side of my family?

 

[Revoltingest]

Now they tell that they have cancelled "COPS". How am I going to keep up with that side of my family?

What what is the proper way to address a Revoltistanian wearing a suit?

Spoiler: Answer

Will the defendant please rise.

 

[icehorse]

Long ago, Betty Boop & other cartoons were pulled from all TV.
HBO has pulled Gone With The Wind.
Other shows, movies,& characters (eg, Apu) are being censored for being offensive to various groups.

Are we going to be better as a result of seeing them?

I don't think that attempting to erase bits of history is a good idea.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't think that attempting to erase bits of history is a good idea.

We just need commentary on context.

 

[Father Heathen]

Long ago, Betty Boop & other cartoons were pulled from all TV.
HBO has pulled Gone With The Wind.
Other shows, movies,& characters (eg, Apu) are being censored for being offensive to various groups.

Are we going to be better as a result of seeing them?

Back when Christian conservatives had more clout, society was seen as puritanical prudes and networks didn't want to **** off viewers which in turn would scare off sponsors.
Now that PC SJWs have more clout, society is seen as puritanical prudes and networks don't want to **** off viewers which in turm would scare off sponsors.

 

[Revoltingest]

Back when Christian conservatives had more clout, society was seen as puritanical prudes and networks didn't want to **** off viewers which in turn would scare of sponsors.
Now that PC SJWs have more clout, society is seen as puritanical prudes and networks didn't want to **** off viewers which in turm would scare of sponsors.

Fortunately, the internet is subverting the censors.'

I imagine that they all look like Miss Censordoll on Moral Orel.

 

[Father Heathen]

Fortunately, the internet is subverting the censors.'

To an extent. Once a platform gets big enough, they'll scrub things squeaky clean to appease their revenue sources.

 

[Augustus]

Add to that Love Thy Neighbour - these were horribly offensive shows that were at the time accepted.
It is right that they are no longer shown, perhaps they should be available as archive to show that we are progressing.

I remember hearing an interview with an actor of Trinidadian descent who said that Love thy neighbour was the most popular show in Trinidad because the bigot always got his comeuppance.

 

[pearl]

We just need commentary on context.

I agree. Out of sight is not out of mind. We cannot pretend that these literary and screen masterpieces do not reflect history.

 

[Augustus]

How exactly is it you consider what content a business wishes to include or exclude in its available inventory to be considered "censorship". Is it censorship that the local Piggly Wiggly doesn't carry ocra or turnips in their produce section?

What is censorship? "Censorship is when an authority (such as a government or religion) cuts out or suppresses communication." Censorship - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you consider HBO to be the government or a religion that has authority over us?

Self-censorship can actually be particularly insidious.

People practicing self-censorship because they fear the mob justice of a vocal minority, is generally not a desirable state of affairs. Put a content warning on it and people who don't like it can stop watching. It's really isn't difficult to avoid watching things you dislike.

When the latest self-censorship fad chimes with their own ideology then people are ok with it, but when the pendulum swings and it goes against them then they are less start to oppose it. For example, progressives weren't so keen when the media was self-censoring after 9/11 as they didn't want to be seen as unpatriotic.

 

[Nakosis]

Long ago, Betty Boop & other cartoons were pulled from all TV.
HBO has pulled Gone With The Wind.
Other shows, movies,& characters (eg, Apu) are being censored for being offensive to various groups.

Are we going to be better as a result of seeing them?

I heard the show Cops is being taken off the air for being offensive...
TV show Cops, criticized for glorifying police aggression, cancelled after 32 seasons

 

[Windwalker]

Self-censorship can actually be particularly insidious.

People practicing self-censorship because they fear the mob justice of a vocal minority, is generally not a desirable state of affairs. Put a content warning on it and people who don't like it can stop watching. It's really isn't difficult to avoid watching things you dislike.

I would challenge that the motivations behind it are because they fear mob justice of a vocal minority. Do Christian books stores stop selling copies of the Satanic Bible, because they fear the mob's response? Should the Disney Channel include snuff films, if they have adequate warning labels on it?

No, I see this all about the sort of content they wish to offer that reflects the values they hold as a company.

When the latest self-censorship fad chimes with their own ideology then people are ok with it, but when the pendulum swings and it goes against them then they are less start to oppose it.

What you are calling self-censorship, I would call a shift in values through the public's awareness being raised to these issues that affect everyone. It's all good and fine to let racism run unchecked in our media, but now that people see the disgusting nature of what it is, I would hardly call that a fad ideology. It's waking up to the need to correct of a wrong that harms others in our society. I consider that being responsible. What we say, matters.

For example, progressives weren't so keen when the media was self-censoring after 9/11 as they didn't want to be seen as unpatriotic.

Again, this is a business, not the government. A business reflects the values of its audiences.

For instance, I see no reason why one should consider Twitter a right to say whatever lie you want on it. I would not see correctly banning Donald Trump from it as an infringement on his right to free speech. He is absolutely free to go find another megaphone elsewhere. He would not be being denied his right to free speech. He can still speak it elsewhere. There is no difference between that and him not being allowed to poop in the middle of the dining room. He can still poop, just not there.