It's only condemned if you are part of said religion. There are a lot of religions in the world that have teachings I don't agree with. My solution? I don't become a part of that religion. To me, it's as simple as that. IMHO of course.
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Morality Without The Bible and Homosexuality
- Thread starter NewGuyOnTheBlock
- Start date
It's only condemned if you are part of said religion. There are a lot of religions in the world that have teachings I don't agree with. My solution? I don't become a part of that religion. To me, it's as simple as that. IMHO of course.
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
I got some Bad News for ya, there -- humans are, in fact, animals.
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
So is homosexual sex. So what?
leov
Well-Known Member
I did not object at all in my response to OP, things came about in a certain way, we are here not because homosexual acts, that is my comment.
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
Nope. Sorry about that-- if all men became the Holy Grail of All Christendom, Priests, and were to be celibate?
That would be the end of the species. Mainly because little boys can't get pregnant...
leov
Well-Known Member
You are if you wish...
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
Wow... I do seriously pity any partner YOU happened to be involved with!
Sex can and more often is, a bonding behavior. And expression of feelings, becoming vulnerable with your partner. Building of the relationship.
But in your narrow and sad little world-view? It's all either "Gotta Make Rugrats" or "Let's Go Have An Orgy".
How sad is that?
Which is why most people, including religious people, are dropping the arbitrary scriptural morality of old and adopting secular humanist values.
Tom
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
I seriously doubt that, and yes you are.
sealchan
Well-Known Member
That suggests that in order for someone to get out of a blind obedience to an unreasoned belief, they will need an unreasonable approach to doing so.
My thinking here is that you need a better unreasoned belief...one that ticks more boxes on the features list of truth and reality. Principles such as multi-cultural, inclusive, etc. currently tend to do this because they allow for a wider community of knowers from which to "triangulate at the truth" from. A faith that is challenged needs a new, better faith to replace it so that the individual can have something experientially worthy that is widely shared in order to freely participate in collectively.
So if we have a substantial population of individuals who identify themselves as homosexual and they evidence to themselves and others that they share the same basic moral and social principles as everyone else while they sincerely indicate that their instinctual sexual desire is different than heterosexuals, then we should simply abandon the incorrect view stated by the Bible. The Biblical view does not, after all, support itself well with experience or even integrate itself with its more subtle and complex views on the nature of God and humanity. It is fairly easy to set this rule aside as being from another time and culture which has also found itself guilty of misogyny and later all sorts of religious persecutions and evils.
So what do we replace a traditional belief in the authority of a book which the passage of time has allowed many to believe was written by God Himself rather than actual people who wrote it with? The answer is that such people have a fundamental problem with trusting in themselves and have adopted a view that their inner, natural inclinations are a curse to be denied rather than a complexity to grow to learn how to manage. These people need a lot of emotional support and care due to either being raised in an abusive family or in a culture of abuse. They need to see that while humans make mistakes and sometimes horrible ones that the answer is within the very religion they believe if only they apply it primarily to themselves and their own actions and motivations and drop the literalistic, legalistic attitude that Jesus himself would complain about.
Some of the more extreme such believers will even tell you that they don't listen to "man's reason" but only to God's. This indicates a profound self-hatred for any sense of their own inner value and volition. Still they may also have a healthy and humble sense of their own limitations but to go around saying that one can even potentially only think to the extent that they read from a book that "tells them the right thoughts" is definitely an issue. These people are afraid to own their own thoughts because they are too afraid to be wrong and to learn from their mistakes. People who see human beings as essentially good "from the ground up" probably have lived better, emotionally safer lives on average. They have had the good fortune of seeing how reason prevails in the home and the community and that truth is a shared resource that everyone can arrive at to their long-term mutual benefit. This is why conservative communities often promote cultic attitudes. They fear a more open, flexible experience of truth and so do not question authority. They bind themselves into isolated communities and fear the unfamiliar.
So ironically as the fear-mongering of such isolationism enters the public community, it raises a threat that people want to respond to with equal force. But what should happen is a great deal of compassion for those who spout such fear. They themselves need to be healed. Antifa is not a good response although an understandable one. By suffering such racist, sexist and other critically hateful attitudes we can help these people see that such attitudes are not only unnecessary but ineffective. This will require time and patience. Meeting their hatred with compassion, with emotional support, is probably the only way to effectively bring such immoral unreasoned belief to a better place.
leov
Well-Known Member
No, it came from the East as enhancement of transcendental meditation practice as well as fast. Ignorant manipulate that.
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
You don't need to qualify what sort of sex-- strait, gay, whatever-- so long as everyone involved can properly give consent, and have done so.
Otherwise, it's rape. Does not matter if the two people are married or not, the ugly bible notwithstanding.
leov
Well-Known Member
Bob, I am tired of bs, so I put you on ignore list for now, Chao.
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
Then don't do it. Simple as that.
Unless I tell you or show you a video, do you ever know how and when I have sex?
Exactly, you don't. That's how much it affects anyone else.
This post is so good, so to the point, that I had to mark it "Winner".
Then? I had to un-mark it... so I could mark "Winner" a second time.
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
I absolutely KNEW you wouldn't answer the question. And I could have guessed your response wouldn't address a single point I made. It's because you know you're backed into a corner with your silly little beliefs, and that you have no logical/real way forward with defense of them. You can't go toe to toe with the position I hold, you know it, and you instead deflect.
If this happens to you often, then I would suggest some self-reflection. It is very likely you're holding views and beliefs for which you have no valid basis, and have not fully thought through the aspects of.
Everything that happens in nature, is according to natural law. By definition. Only miracles can overrule natural laws, allegedly.
Do you think homosexuality is a miracle?
Ciao
- viole
Last edited:
How does it matter?
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
Re: Most who are against Homosexuality.
It's a deeply seated fear that, somehow, homosexuality is catching.
Anyone I've met who is vehemently against it, seems to be afraid that they, personally, might discover they really like it.
Which goes to the root of the problem: They have not permitted themselves to explore their own, natural human sexuality. They are not certain of their own sexual identity.
It's rather sad. Good, clear, honest sexual education can put those fears to rest, and help anyone who is so educated, to also become comfortable in their own skin.
--------------------
To put it another way: The ONLY way that allowing same sex couples to marry would actually affect someone else? Would be if the objector (or their partner) is also gay...
An analogy:
I went to buy a doughnut. The guy in front of me, purchases a cinnamon bagel instead.
I WAS HORRIFIED! HOW DARE HE NOT BUY A DOUGHNUT, LIKE I WANTED!
... that is exactly how people complaining about "them gays" sounds
It's a deeply seated fear that, somehow, homosexuality is catching.
Anyone I've met who is vehemently against it, seems to be afraid that they, personally, might discover they really like it.
Which goes to the root of the problem: They have not permitted themselves to explore their own, natural human sexuality. They are not certain of their own sexual identity.
It's rather sad. Good, clear, honest sexual education can put those fears to rest, and help anyone who is so educated, to also become comfortable in their own skin.
--------------------
To put it another way: The ONLY way that allowing same sex couples to marry would actually affect someone else? Would be if the objector (or their partner) is also gay...
An analogy:
I went to buy a doughnut. The guy in front of me, purchases a cinnamon bagel instead.
I WAS HORRIFIED! HOW DARE HE NOT BUY A DOUGHNUT, LIKE I WANTED!
... that is exactly how people complaining about "them gays" sounds
Very true... I disagree with a lot of what Christianity teaches, so I'm not Christian. However, I'm still affected by it when those who make laws base them on their religious beliefs. Or they have a loud enough voice they influence the lawmakers and policymakers. That is a problem.