Morality Without The Bible and Homosexuality

[BilliardsBall]

No. It’s not always about lust. This is where’s your entitled thinking always gets you in trouble. Sometimes it’s about experimentation. But none of it makes someone gay, straight, bi, or a liar.

Lust = a human emotion given by God, aka DESIRE. Jesus "lusted" in the Greek to save us.

A gay man forces himself to try straight sex if he feels being gay is an issue. A gay man experiments with a woman to SEE IF HE IS BI.

Be real!

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Lust = a human emotion given by God, aka DESIRE. Jesus "lusted" in the Greek to save us..

Citation needed. Claim made without a shred of evidence.

1) prove gods are possible
2) prove any god(s) exist
3) prove that god is your god.
4) prove whichever human-created self-titled "holey" book is actually an Official Press Release From God™

A gay man forces himself to try straight sex if he feels being gay is an issue. A gay man experiments with a woman to SEE IF HE IS BI.

Be real!

Or? The gay man feels incredible SOCIAL pressure to CONFORM to what is generally considered "norm" and goes against his own nature...

 

[sojourner]

Lust = a human emotion given by God, aka DESIRE. Jesus "lusted" in the Greek to save us.

A gay man forces himself to try straight sex if he feels being gay is an issue. A gay man experiments with a woman to SEE IF HE IS BI.

Be real!

Noe you're doing double-speak. You speak of lust in your previous post as if it's a bad thing. Now you speak of it as if it's a good thing. Which is it? Pick one.

A person will have sex with another person for any number of reasons. Yes, sometimes it's about poor boundaries and lust. Sometimes it isn't. Sometimes there are other reasons: societal pressure, an intuition one has, love, a need to experiment.

Get real!

 

[BilliardsBall]

Citation needed. Claim made without a shred of evidence.

1) prove gods are possible
2) prove any god(s) exist
3) prove that god is your god.
4) prove whichever human-created self-titled "holey" book is actually an Official Press Release From God™



Or? The gay man feels incredible SOCIAL pressure to CONFORM to what is generally considered "norm" and goes against his own nature...

Who forces these man to go against nature? And if humans can go against nature, have they moved beyond evolution?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Noe you're doing double-speak. You speak of lust in your previous post as if it's a bad thing. Now you speak of it as if it's a good thing. Which is it? Pick one.

A person will have sex with another person for any number of reasons. Yes, sometimes it's about poor boundaries and lust. Sometimes it isn't. Sometimes there are other reasons: societal pressure, an intuition one has, love, a need to experiment.

Get real!

I NEVER said "lust is evil". You are clearly adding weight to the agendas you're imagining for me.

None of your reasons adequately explain a man who is married for 25 years with five or six children than says "I've always been gay" when a sixth grader understands he's always been bi.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Who forces these man to go against nature? And if humans can go against nature, have they moved beyond evolution?

"against nature"? What, pray tell, do you mean by "against nature?"

Homosexuality exists in all mammalian species, and many other similar ones too.

Homosex is Nature Writ Large--it's everywhere.

And "moved beyond evolution" is a null phrase, devoid of usable meaning.

You cannot have Life and go "beyond" what is fundamentally intertwined with Life-- Life evolves, and will continue to do so, irregardless of anyone's behaviors or desires.

As long as Reproduction uses Meiosis? Evolution is a part of that, and continues.

Only by Cloning can you Reduce (but never eliminate) the process of Evolution-- but even within a clone, there is some evolution taking place: every time a cell replicates, Evolutionary Processes are involved-- just not as dramatic.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Who forces these man to go against nature? And if humans can go against nature, have they moved beyond evolution?

What makes you think they are going "against nature?"

 

[SkepticThinker]

I NEVER said "lust is evil". You are clearly adding weight to the agendas you're imagining for me.

None of your reasons adequately explain a man who is married for 25 years with five or six children than says "I've always been gay" when a sixth grader understands he's always been bi.

Sure they do. You just don't want to hear them.

 

[sojourner]

I NEVER said "lust is evil". You are clearly adding weight to the agendas you're imagining for me.

None of your reasons adequately explain a man who is married for 25 years with five or six children than says "I've always been gay" when a sixth grader understands he's always been bi.

1) I would counter with the scripture: "A child shall lead them."
2) A child of 12 probably is just beginning to get a handle on sexuality. She may have a rudimentary understanding of herself and her sexuality; she may not. You say this as if every 6th grader fully knows her or himself.
3) It may be easier for a child to identify orientation in the present environment of understanding and openness than for an adult who has been reared and lived an adult life with the story of shame, repression, fear, and rigid sexual roles.
4) An adult reared in that environment needs time and space in order to come to grips with what s/he feels, and to tear up the old social and psychological contracts that no longer serve. It's no wonder that a man with six children takes a long time to be able to admit -- even to himself -- that he's gay.

Your perspective is quite draconian and unforgiving, given that you profess to be a spiritual person -- a Christian yet. Learn some forgiveness -- "70x7" Jesus taught.

 

[sojourner]

Who forces these man to go against nature? And if humans can go against nature, have they moved beyond evolution?

"Beyond evolution?" For the Christian (In fact, I'd dare say for most, if not all spiritual paths), the journey is one of evolution and transformation. We live, we grow, we expand, we discover, we change. It's the way of nature to change and evolve.

And, BTW, who said that homosexuality or bisexuality is "against" nature? The psychiatric community certainly doesn't think so. And, in fact, the bible is silent on the issue of orientation.

 

[BilliardsBall]

"against nature"? What, pray tell, do you mean by "against nature?"

Homosexuality exists in all mammalian species, and many other similar ones too.

Homosex is Nature Writ Large--it's everywhere.

And "moved beyond evolution" is a null phrase, devoid of usable meaning.

You cannot have Life and go "beyond" what is fundamentally intertwined with Life-- Life evolves, and will continue to do so, irregardless of anyone's behaviors or desires.

As long as Reproduction uses Meiosis? Evolution is a part of that, and continues.

Only by Cloning can you Reduce (but never eliminate) the process of Evolution-- but even within a clone, there is some evolution taking place: every time a cell replicates, Evolutionary Processes are involved-- just not as dramatic.

Was referring to your prior comments--people experimenting or trying to go against "how they were born". I find the term you used, "act against our natures" to be mysterious since you believe in evolution but not in God.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Sure they do. You just don't want to hear them.

Again, someone who has sex to orgasm with an opposite gender partner for two decades or more is hetero or at best "bi" and not "gay from birth". I know gay men who cannot copulate and do not copulate and do not wish to copulate with women.

How about you define bisexual without using a circular tautology? I'm not an ostrich because "I feel like I'm an ostrich".

 

[BilliardsBall]

1) I would counter with the scripture: "A child shall lead them."
2) A child of 12 probably is just beginning to get a handle on sexuality. She may have a rudimentary understanding of herself and her sexuality; she may not. You say this as if every 6th grader fully knows her or himself.
3) It may be easier for a child to identify orientation in the present environment of understanding and openness than for an adult who has been reared and lived an adult life with the story of shame, repression, fear, and rigid sexual roles.
4) An adult reared in that environment needs time and space in order to come to grips with what s/he feels, and to tear up the old social and psychological contracts that no longer serve. It's no wonder that a man with six children takes a long time to be able to admit -- even to himself -- that he's gay.

Your perspective is quite draconian and unforgiving, given that you profess to be a spiritual person -- a Christian yet. Learn some forgiveness -- "70x7" Jesus taught.

I'm to forgive what, exactly? A man sleeps with a woman for 20 years and destroys his marriage and children because he's not bi, but gay. So I must forgive him for being confused? Of course being confused or desperate or lonely or giving into peer pressure is forgiven on the cross. of course!

But I'm not a blue ostrich or a woman with a penis; what does the Bible say about people who claim, "Don't judge me by what I do (sleep with a woman) but by what I tell you (I'm homosexual, not bisexual)".

 

[SkepticThinker]

Again, someone who has sex to orgasm with an opposite gender partner for two decades or more is hetero or at best "bi" and not "gay from birth". I know gay men who cannot copulate and do not copulate and do not wish to copulate with women.

How do you know? Maybe they were thinking about a member of the same sex the entire time. It's bizarre to me that you claim to know a person's mind.

As another poster keeps pointing out, you are confusing sexual orientation with sexual acts.

How about you define bisexual without using a circular tautology? I'm not an ostrich because "I feel like I'm an ostrich".

Bisexuality refers to a person who is attracted to males and females, or to more than one sex or gender.


I don't know what circular tautology you are referring to.

 

[sojourner]

I'm to forgive what, exactly? A man sleeps with a woman for 20 years and destroys his marriage and children because he's not bi, but gay. So I must forgive him for being confused? Of course being confused or desperate or lonely or giving into peer pressure is forgiven on the cross. of course!

But I'm not a blue ostrich or a woman with a penis; what does the Bible say about people who claim, "Don't judge me by what I do (sleep with a woman) but by what I tell you (I'm homosexual, not bisexual)".

The bible says to love all and to honor all. The bible says to forgive 70 x 7. The bible says, "Don't concern yourself with the problems of others, when you've got problems of your own to tend to." Some people are women with penises. Some people are confused or bullied with regard to their sexual identities. You love them anyway.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

The bible says to love all and to honor all. The bible says to forgive 70 x 7. The bible says, "Don't concern yourself with the problems of others, when you've got problems of your own to tend to." Some people are women with penises. Some people are confused or bullied with regard to their sexual identities. You love them anyway.

You are a far better person than I. Kudos! May you continue to spread your clearly demonstrated love, for others.

You also have a beautiful way with words-- the phrase "Some people are women with penises." was particularly poetic, and apropos to the discussion.

Salute

 

[sojourner]

You are a far better person than I. Kudos! May you continue to spread your clearly demonstrated love, for others.

You also have a beautiful way with words-- the phrase "Some people are women with penises." was particularly poetic, and apropos to the discussion.

Salute

Thanks!

 

[BilliardsBall]

The bible says to love all and to honor all. The bible says to forgive 70 x 7. The bible says, "Don't concern yourself with the problems of others, when you've got problems of your own to tend to." Some people are women with penises. Some people are confused or bullied with regard to their sexual identities. You love them anyway.

Agreed.

 

[YoursTrue]

I can put it even more succinctly...conscience and empathy. We feel bad when we do these things because our brains are wired to understand that we are one of those whom we identify as an "other". Biological, evolutionary morality.

What I find particularly sad as well as unusual is that certain persons are born with genetically problematic situations. They can be raised as females but are genetically male because that is what the doctors decided early on. (Sad.) Our lives are kind of short now and so suffering will be eliminated by God in the future.

 

[YoursTrue]

I ask this many of times. No. Christian has answered me. Even on another site I go, I asked it. They ignored me.

Of course homosexual behavior (not homosexuality) according to scripture is a sin.

But is there a reason that it is
And that it is along side murder and theft?

I'll call in my cards once I know

Because that is what is said in the Bible to be a sin.
One bird says to the other, "Look, after we go to war with our enemy, there will be peace and stability." And the other bird says, "Yes! Kill, kill, kill!"
So why am I saying this? (It was in a comic book and I thought it was relevant.) Because just as there are what are called "just wars" by some claiming to be Christian, there are those that excuse homosexual behavior and say they are Christian.