Morality: Do you agree

[Trailblazer]

It's at best a false dichotomy.
As if morality can only have objective foundations if it's based on the whims of a god.

God does not have whims. God has a mind and a will and determines what is moral and reveals that through His Messengers.
If God exists and created humans then God determines what moral behavior is for humans.
If there is no God, then humans determine what is moral for themselves.

That, and the fact that mere obedience to authority, is not acting morally. That's just obedience.

It is acting morally if God is the authority who sets the standards for human morality.
It is also obedience, and it is in our best interest to obey God, if God exists.

 

[Eli G]

Why?

The world is not better after all this atheistic moral thing arrived to it; it is a lot worse than before. How can be better a world where people decide what is "good" depending on their political or economic interests?

 

[Polymath257]

Well, you are just you.

Some millionaires are devoting a great part of their fortunes to discover a way to prolong life. And most people get very happy when they listen some news about it.

Once again, I am in favor of longer life. I would not want to live forever, though.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Do you agree with this, that without God there is no moral foundation for judging right from wrong? And therefore people not believing in objective morality is not allowed or invalid when judging others?

If morality depends on God's opinion at the time, it's not objective by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Eli G]

Science is not anymore on the hands of the peoples ... It is just a means to get richer and most of discoveries are used in that direction ... Be real.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

What is objective morality and how do we prove it objectively exists?

Does God have to follow His own rules?

 

[Polymath257]

We only knows one planet like ours, and it is our planet. That is enough to me; I am a very realistic person; not one who like to argue about things so easy to realize.

And until recently we did not know of any planets outside of our solar system. Now we know of thousands.

It is not at all easy to detect planets orbiting other stars. We did not have the capability at all until a couple of decades ago. Even now, finding a planet the size of the Earth around another star is very, very difficult.

So, our knowledge is not even close to good enough to make conclusions about our uniqueness.

 

[Polymath257]

Science is not anymore on the hands of the peoples ... It is just a means to get richer and most of discoveries are used in that direction ... Be real.

You don't know many scientists, do you?

 

[Eli G]

Knowledge do not make people happier.

 

[Eli G]

Have diseases disappeared? Has hunger disappeared? Have wars been eliminated? Have they managed to prevent and avoid violence?

 

[Polymath257]

The world is not better after all this atheistic moral thing arrived to it; it is a lot worse than before. How can be better a world where people decide what is "good" depending on their political or economic interests?

Because we no longer rely on prayer to heal people. Now we can use medicine. We no longer treat those who disagree with us an deserving of death, so we are less violent (even though we are still way too much so). We no longer see it as appropriate to have slaves, or to have public executions, or to torture people. Yes these things happen, but far less than before.

By almost every objective standard, we are better off now than any time in history.

 

[Polymath257]

Knowledge do not make people happier.

Ignorance is bliss?

Let me guess,

Freedom is slavery.

 

[Eli G]

Hehehe. You are an idealist. Be real. There is a cure for most illnesses. But they are not accesible to poor people.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If God exists and created humans then God determines what moral behavior is for humans.

So if god decides that genocide is moral, then it is.
If god decides that infanticide is moral, then it is.
If god decides homophobia is moral, then it is.
If god decides that slavery is moral, then it is.


I call that moral bankruptcy.

If there is no God, then humans determine what is moral for themselves.

I don't "decide" what is and isn't moral. Instead, I conclude it in the most objective manner possible with as a foundation well-being (good) and suffering (bad) of sentient creatures

It's not hard.

I also find that a lot of times, my conclusions are diametrically opposed to the morals of "gods".

It is acting morally if God is the authority who sets the standards for human morality.
It is also obedience, and it is in our best interest to obey God, if God exists.

"might makes right".

That's that moral bankrupcy I was referring to.

 

[Eli G]

We need God because He will really solve the problems of humanity. Governments and institutions are ruining the planet ... and gettig worse every day.

 

[Trailblazer]

Longer is not the same as forever.

That's an excellent point.
I would not want to live forever on earth no matter how much better conditions got.

I cannot even imagine conditions that would make living forever anything but pure torture. Anything past a few tens of millions of years would get brutal.

We cannot imagine what the spiritual world will be like since it is so different from this world.
When there is not time (such as we know it in this world) we won't be thinking of time. We will simply exist.
Whether we will *like* existing or not is another matter, and I believe that will depend upon many things.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The world is not better after all this atheistic moral thing arrived to it; it is a lot worse than before. How can be better a world where people decide what is "good" depending on their political or economic interests?

I asked you "why". I didn't ask you to simply repeat your disagreement.

Tell me HOW it was better before 1914.
Be specific.

 

[Polymath257]

Have diseases disappeared? Has hunger disappeared? Have wars been eliminated? Have they managed to prevent and avoid violence?

No, they have not. But they have been drastically lessened. You seldom see children with polio any more. Nobody dies of smallpox these days. Violence still happens, but you are *far* less likely to die of violence than in the past (and would be better off if not in the United States). You are also far less likely to die in a war than previously.

 

[Polymath257]

Knowledge do not make people happier.

Some people are only happy when their ideas are not challenged.

Others are happy when we learn more.

 

[Trailblazer]

So what about all the immoral and amoral laws?

What laws do you think those are?
If you are referring to the laws in the Old Testament, that's ancient history, so it does not apply to the modern age.