Moral Polly Parrot

[shmogie]

Well I think you are wrong, and if you looked at current knowledge concerning animal behaviour then what they do would not be seen as just instinctual. A mention in another thread of injustice being observed in many animal species is one example. How would an animal display this if it didn't have some kind of moral values to compare against? I fear you are just ignoring so much related to animal behaviour because it suits your religious beliefs to do so.

And the article provided by @ChristineM is well worth reading.

No, it comes from a lifetime of observation of animals. Never being without at least one dog. since birth, 70 years, I have 5 now, many cats, aquariums, fresh and salt, since I was 12, I have raised show rabbits, racing pigeons, had a large snake collection, and live in the rural Southwest where I observe a large variety of animals in their natural habitat.

I have never seen any fauna species make a moral decision, not once.

 

[McBell]

That's a somewhat confusing definition, though, as Its trying to imply morality as being both the ethical standards for judging behavior, and the behavior, too. Whereas I think the term "morality" applies only to our behavior, and not to the ethical imperatives that we use to define behavior as being moral or immoral.​

You will have to further explain because I fail to see the problem you suggest here.

 

[McBell]

I have never seen any fauna species make a moral decision, not once.

What would you see as a "moral" decision made by an animal?

 

[Mock Turtle]

No, it comes from a lifetime of observation of animals. Never being without at least one dog. since birth, 70 years, I have 5 now, many cats, aquariums, fresh and salt, since I was 12, I have raised show rabbits, racing pigeons, had a large snake collection, and live in the rural Southwest where I observe a large variety of animals in their natural habitat.

I have never seen any fauna species make a moral decision, not once.

So you'd rather take that over professionals who have actually spent time studying animal behaviour? I think that is likely preferring anecdotal evidence over true study - not so clever. At what level of consciousness would you place humour? Since many species seem to exhibit this - the orangutan reacting to a magic trick on Youtube is a good example - since some thought is likely to be existing here, so why wouldn't animals also have thoughts about behaviour too?

 

[PureX]

You will have to further explain because I fail to see the problem you suggest here.

What behavior one person sees as moral or immoral depends on the ethical priorities that person is applying to their judgment of that behavior. Morality refers to an assigned ethical assessment of behavior. Not to some innate behavioral state, as many people tend to infer when talking about "morals".

 

[Mock Turtle]

What behavior one person sees as moral or immoral depends on the ethical priorities that person is applying to their judgment of that behavior. Morality refers to an assigned ethical assessment of behavior. Not to some innate behavioral state, as many people tend to infer when talking about "morals".

Assigned by whom?

 

[shmogie]

So you'd rather take that over professionals who have actually spent time studying animal behaviour? I think that is likely preferring anecdotal evidence over true study - not so clever. At what level of consciousness would you place humour? Since many species seem to exhibit this - the orangutan reacting to a magic trick on Youtube is a good example - since some thought is likely to be existing here, so why wouldn't animals also have thoughts about behaviour too?

I certainly will concede that I know little about primates, and will accept that some have reasoning ability. Elephants apparently have this ability to some extent as well.

Nevertheless, I still contend that survival instinct, and perpetuation of the species, are overriding instincts that control behavior.

 

[shmogie]

What would you see as a "moral" decision made by an animal?

Refrain from killing a female of another species because she had to care for her young. It would be morally wrong.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I certainly will concede that I know little about primates, and will accept that some have reasoning ability. Elephants apparently have this ability to some extent as well.

Nevertheless, I still contend that survival instinct, and perpetuation of the species, are overriding instincts that control behavior.

Well many animals are known to use tools - stones or twigs, for example - and to be able to solve a range of problems, so I don't know why you would think they couldn't reflect on other things (like their and others' behaviour) when they obviously must be doing something to come up with solutions to these problems - many of which are novel to them.

 

[PureX]

Assigned by whom?

Assigned by each of us, according to our own chosen ethical imperatives and priorities.