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Monotheism in Bible

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by 13 apostle, May 8, 2013.

  1. 13 apostle

    13 apostle New Member

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    Monotheism in the Bible

    In The Name Of Allah The Merciful the Most Merciful.
    And all praise is due to Allah Lord of the Worlds.
    And may Allah send His prayers upon Muhammad and The Family of Muhammad Imams and Mahdis, and send great greetings.


    Excerpt from ’The Book of Monotheism: The Interpretation of Surah Al Tawheed’ By: Imam Ahmad Al Hassan (pbuh):

    The Texts of the Torah and the Gospels



    Proving that Allah is One and Indivisible

    It is not composed of parts: And these texts are clear and explicit and evident, for it is meaningless to interpret them in order that they match texts which their meanings were ambiguous/allegorical to the non-working Scholars, so they lead astray the Creation of Allah by interpreting them according to their desires a false interpretation.



    1 – A few texts in the Torah (The Old Testament):

    “Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.” [1].

    “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:” [2].

    “See know that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me;” [3].

    “I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.” [4].

    “I am the LORD, that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth; who is with me?” [5].

    “Am I not the Lord, and there is no other Lord than me? A Good Faithful God, none other than me” [6].

    “Did not one God create us?” [7].

    “I am the LORD your God, who rescued you from the land of Egypt, the place of your slavery. * You must not have any other God but me.” [8].



    2 – A few texts from the Gospels (The New Testament):

    “With Truth I have said, verily, He is One God, and there is none other beside Him.” [9].

    “and you are not seeking the glory of The One God?” [10].



    Texts from the Messages which they associated with the Gospels:

    “since there is only one God,” [11].

    “and that, ‘That there is No God but One.’” [12].

    “but God is one.” [13].

    “For, present is One God.” [14].

    “You believe that there is one God. Good!” [15].



    ______________________________

    [1] Deuteronomy 4: 39.

    [2] Deuteronomy 6: 4.

    [3] Deuteronomy 32: 39.

    [4] Isaiah 44: 6.

    [5] Isaiah 44: 24.

    [6] Isaiah 45:21.

    [7] Malachi 2: 10.

    [8] Exodus 20: 2 & 3.

    [9] Mark 12: 32.

    [10] John 5: 44.

    [11] Romans 3: 30.

    [12] 1 Corinthians 8: 4.

    [13] 1 Galatians 3:20.

    [14] 1 Timothy 2: 5.

    [15] James 2: 19.
     
  2. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    So... what exactly are we discussing here? Isn't it kind of common knowledge that contemporary theologies based on the Bible are overwhelmingly monotheistic?
     
  3. 13 apostle

    13 apostle New Member

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    Even though Bible is teaching monotheism, Christians made two creations of God equal to Him. The verses mentioned are clear for everyone to see.
     
  4. ChristineES

    ChristineES Tiggerism
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    So what you are debating is about the Trinity. We really don't see them as three different Gods. I don't fully understand the Trinity and I have had my share of doubts about it. The best description I've heard of it was H2O- the water, steam and ice analogy, although some have said that that isn't really Trinity but Modalism.
     
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  5. fallingblood

    fallingblood Agnostic Theist

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    So it is an argument against the Trinity? If so, then I would say you have thought about the Trinity in an incorrect manner.
     
  6. Straw Dog

    Straw Dog Well-Known Member

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    I don't really believe in theological concepts, but I do experience God directly. The Trinity represents non-duality. In some ways, God is one. In other ways, God is three. And, in some ways still, God is empty of all self-nature.

    God the Father is a metaphor representing that which is beyond all comprehension. God the Son symbolizes the simple way of spiritual living leading to joyful serenity and survival, personified as the Christ within. God the Spirit represents the primordial potential awaiting activation by the will, which cultivation of leads to liberation.

    I feel it is safer to approach the Trinity through the Spirit rather than through theology.
     
  7. 13 apostle

    13 apostle New Member

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    In The Name of God The Merciful The Most Merciful.
    All praise is due to God Lord of the worlds.

    What was written proves clearly that there is no trinity, as there was and there is and there will be no one equal to Him Almighty, Absolute Light. There is only Him Exalted is He, and everything else which is not Him is His creation.

    And Jesus a.s prayed to God that the cup of crucifixion is removed from him a.s, so, I ask you by God, is Jesus a.s equal to Him?

    Absolute Light with no darkness in it, and He The Almighty is High above needing something, everything needs Him and He The Glorified does not need anything.

    And Jesus a.s ate food which He The Almighty descended to his believers and him a.s, so Jesus a.s needs to use a restroom. I ask you by God, is that part of Absolute Light with no darkness in it? The One Whom does not need anything or anyone to sustain Him The Glorified.
    {5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus} 1 Timothy 2

    {5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many gods and many lords — 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.}1 Corinthians 8

    {3 And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.}John 17

    {29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is One. 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” 32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher. You have truly said that He is One, and there is no other besides Him.}Mark 12
     
  8. fallingblood

    fallingblood Agnostic Theist

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    What was written by you only shows a misunderstanding of the Trinity and the ability to take verses out of context.
     
  9. 13 apostle

    13 apostle New Member

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    What you wrote only shows that you are following knowledge of people and how they interpreted the Bible, although the signs and verses are clear as the sun.

    {5 one lord, one faith, one baptism (Jesus Christ a.s during his time), 6 One God and Father of all, Who is over all and through all and in all (One God Creator of all things).}Ephesians 4
     
  10. fallingblood

    fallingblood Agnostic Theist

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    What I wrote shows that I think you're wrong, and that your concept of the Trinity simply is not an informed one.

    The Trinity Doctrine confirms the idea of one God.
     
  11. Straw Dog

    Straw Dog Well-Known Member

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    Does not the carpenter put himself into his work? Doesn't the creator flow into the creation?

    This is what I mean when I say that God is empty of self-nature. It gives of itself freely. It gently guides us towards realization of our own emptiness of soul and realignment with the primal will of eternal nature.

    This is merely a pseudo-problem that arises from seeking to possess theological concepts. Being still and centering upon that which is lets the divine light shine openly through the three temples of mind, body, and soul. This is what I mean when I say that the Trinity symbolizes non-duality. God is one and God is not one; as it gives of its self-nature freely.

    Confusion arises on all sides due to grasping at theological concepts. The God that can be known is not the one true God. The Word that can be written is not the eternal Word. It it better to look for the Spirit within. Then the Word of God shall be written upon the heart, mind, and soul.
     
  12. 13 apostle

    13 apostle New Member

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    Ok.
    Can you tell me how the trinity doctrine confirms the idea of one God ?
     
  13. fallingblood

    fallingblood Agnostic Theist

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    It confirms the idea of one God by stating that there is just one God. Jesus is not a god, the Holy Spirit is not a god. They are ONE with God.
     
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  14. 13 apostle

    13 apostle New Member

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    In The Name of God The Merciful The Most Merciful
    All praise is due to God Lord of the worlds.


    Godhood/Divinity, in the general meaning, encompasses the complete/perfect one whom the creation seek or turn to [in order that their needs may be fulfilled] and in order that they may attain their perfection and to sustain their shortcomings. And Godhood is like Lordship, in the sense that, just as Lordship encompasses the father, as he is the lord of the family, it also encompasses the Caliph/Successor of Allah on His Earth considering that he is the Lord of the Earth.
    In this physical world, Lordship encompasses: the one who takes care of the needs of another person, because in regards to him he is a nurturer/master/lord, because he sustains his shortcomings – and fulfills his needs – in this physical world.
    And Divinity/Godhood, likewise, encompasses the one whom is sought/turned to by others in order that he may sustain their shortcomings and fulfill their needs which exist in his area.


    (Whoever worships the name without the meaning, verily, he has disbelieved and has not worshiped anything): meaning, whoever worships the name- meaning the name "Allah" (literately God) – and does not make it only indicative to the true and correct Meaning, meaning the Absolute Divine who is rich by his self, thus he becomes a disbeliever, because in reality he is worshipping a name, and a word which is derived from ilah (a God) whom requires that there must exist ones to turn to him/need him. Meaning, that he is worshipping a name which can be applied to other than Allah, the Glorified; because among His The Exalted, Creation there exist those whom are sought in order that they may fulfill a need/or sustain a shortcoming, and thus, they become an evidence/a confirmation for the general name without ties.


    As in regards to (Whoever worships the Name and the Meaning, verily he has associated and has worshiped two), this means [the ones who has associated and has worshipped two is] whoever considers the name to show the Meaning and the Truth, while the Name is only a derived name and it is general and does not exceed being an indication towards the Meaning, which leads to the Truth needs to be reached, in order for man to achieve true worship. And because he is a human, thus the capability to achieve [the level of] true worship and knowing it has been put inside him.

    (And whoever worships the Meaning without the Name, then verily, this is Monotheism) Because the Meaning, or the Absolute Divine, or Allah The Exalted is what leads to knowing the Truth (He), for the Name is but a pointer towards the Meaning which leads to the Truth. Thus, it should not be that one directs himself towards the Name anyway, rather, whoever wanted [to achieve] Monotheism, he should completely abandon turning towards the Name, and should instead, direct himself towards the Meaning which leads to the Truth.

    And all that is due to the fact that the Name, points towards a general meaning, and that is, whoever is sought by others in order that he may sustain their shortcomings, thus, turning towards him becomes Disbelief and Association with God; because it indicates towards more than one appearance to this meaning and in different ranks, for the Absolute Divine is sought by others for help/need, and some of His creation are also sought by others for help/need. Or in other words, indeed, those among His (The Glorified) creation whom is sought for need/help, are also a Divine, but not an Absolute Divine, rather, they are poor and in need for other than themselves. Thus, it becomes that directing oneself in Worship towards the Name – by whatever way - is Association with God and Disbelief. Therefore, it must be that one determines the Meaning which is meant to be directed towards from the indication of the Name, and then one should direct himself towards the Meaning without the Name (without the Name).


    And truth is, indeed this jewel points towards a matter which will be clarified, and that is He, the Glorified, has appeared and manifested to us in the Divine; because it is what is appropriate for our condition in order that we may know the Truth, for what makes our identity and reality distinguishable is Poverty, and the Divine is the absolute Richness, and thus He is more suitable for us in order that we may know the Truth when we direct ourselves towards Him so that He may make some of his Richness and Perfection overflow upon our Poverty.

    Therefore, Godhood/Divinity in the general meaning – meaning the fact that it means the perfect one whom is sought by other in order the he makes them complete/prefect and sustain their shortcomings – encompasses special ones from His The Exalted creation, whom have attained perfection in the highest possible ranks for creation, and the matter of creation is delegated to them to a certain extent
     
  15. fallingblood

    fallingblood Agnostic Theist

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    That is all and good for a personal theology; however, what makes it better than any other theology?

    And really, this isn't an argument against the Trinity, as you still have a skewed view of the Trinity. Like I said, the Trinity Doctrine accepts just one God.
     
  16. 13 apostle

    13 apostle New Member

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    Jesus, Peace of Allah be upon him, is ignorant of the hour
    Jesus (pbuh) said regarding himself that he is ignorant (unaware) of the hour in which will be the minor resurrection: “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” [1], and ignorance is due to shortages/deficiencies, whereas, the Absolute Divinity is Absolute Perfection whom does not have any deficiency/shortage or ignorance, for He is Light with no darkness in it, while ignorance is found in the created being because he has darkness present in the page of his existence. Therefore, Jesus (pbuh) is Light and darkness and this proves to the inquisitor that Jesus is not an Absolute Godhood, but rather, he is a servant whom was created from darkness and Light, and he is not Light with no darkness in it, the Almighty, Allah is far above. And in that is a decisive speech and a clarification for an advice to those whom have minds, and this text is the words of Jesus (pbuh) just as it is present in the Gospel of Mark: 32 “Yet about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, not even the Son; no one but the Father. 33 ‘Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. 34 For the Son of Man is like a man away from home: he has left his house and put his servants in charge, each with his own work to do, and he has ordered the door-keeper to keep watch. 35 Keep watch, then, for you do not know when the master of the house will come. Evening or midnight, ****-crow or early dawn – 36 if he comes suddenly, do not let him find you asleep. 37 And what I say to you, I say to everyone: Keep Watch.’ [2].
    _______________________

    [1] Mark 13: 32. [2] The Gospel of Mark, Chapter 13 – Old and New Testament: Ch. 2 – Congregation for Eastern Churches.


    the Nasaris, or as they have named themselves, the Christians, made for the Prophet of Allah Jesus (pbuh), who was a servant from the servants of Allah, Absolute Godhood and Absolute Richness. And their only proof/argument is a few words in their Gospels, for example, Jesus' (pbuh) saying: ‘My Father’ and ‘The Son’, although, all these are interpreted to mean the characteristics/attributes of fatherhood and sonship, not its essence, meaning, Mercy and Politeness/Benevolence and Disciplining and… and Giving which, perhaps, reached to the sacrificing of the self, from the father to his son, and Allah, the Glorious, the Almighty, shares with Fatherhood some attributes, having in mind His, the Glorious, Richness (His lack of need for this). Also, from the aspect of the son in regards to the father, it is possible to see the status of Kindness and Dutifulness of the righteous Son towards his Father and his obedience to Him in accordance to the behavior of the Prophets and the Vicegerents towards Allah, the Glorious, the Almighty. And Allah, the Glorious, the Almighty, reaches with His servant in giving until He gives him everything, thus He, the Glorious, the Almighty, addresses His servant [by saying]: “I am Alive and do not die and indeed I have made you [an] alive [one whom] does not die, I say to something be and it becomes, and indeed I have made you say to something be and it becomes.” [1]. And this is what being described by the the description of Godhood in Creation means, meaning, that the servant gets described by a few of the attributes of Godhood with noticing his poverty [his need for Allah swt]. For this servant is alive and does not die and he says to something be and it becomes and [this] is an attribute of Godhood, however, the One Whom granted him that is Allah, the Glorious, the Almighty, and he is needy and poor towards Allah to remain as such. As for Allah, the Glorious, the Almighty, verily, He was and is and will remain alive and does not die and He says to something be, thus, it becomes, without Him needing or seeking anyone. And this clearly distinguishes the difference between being desribed with the description/attribute of Godhood in Creation (or the Face of Allah or the Hand of Allah or the Rise of Allah in Sai'r or the Appearance of Allah in Fa’ran)which was represented by the most special of His Preferred ones/Guardians, as Muhammad (pbuh & his family) and Jesus (pbuh), and between the True Absolute Godhood, which is restricted and limited to Allah, Glory be to Him, the Almighty. - {They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with Allah - Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers.} {The Holy Qur’an Surat Al-Mā'idah (The Table Spread): 72} - {They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment.} {The Holy Qur’an Surat Al-Mā'idah (The Table Spread): 73}
    - 62 -
    - {So will they not repent to Allah and seek His forgiveness? And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.} {The Holy Qur’an Surat Al-Mā'idah (The Table Spread): 74} - {The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger; [other] messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. They both used to eat food. Look how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded.} {The Holy Qur’an Surat Al-Mā'idah (The Table Spread): 75} - {Had there been within the heavens and earth gods besides Allah , they both would have been ruined. So exalted is Allah , Lord of the Throne, above what they describe.} {The Holy Qur’an Surat Al-'Anbyā' (The Prophets): 22}
    _______________________

    [1] Bihar Al Anwar: V. 90, P. 376.
     
  17. Sha'irullah

    Sha'irullah رسول الآلهة

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    The BIble is monotheistic to a limited extent but undoubtedly I view the polytheistic Pauline Epistles to be very confusing and I have always viewed him as heretical to Christianity.
    But with the Pauline Epistles included the Bible is very polytheistic as unlike Hinduism they separate their deities coexistence yet unify them equally. Highly polytheistic.
     
  18. fallingblood

    fallingblood Agnostic Theist

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    What is polytheistic about the Pauline epistles?
     
  19. Sha'irullah

    Sha'irullah رسول الآلهة

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    I cannot quote verses as I am not as clerical in the Bible as I am the Qur'an but the Pauline Epistles assert many polytheistic themes by its excessive usage of Son of God and numerous verses which portray this notion. Paul displayed more Greek Hellenic theology then he did Christian and his influence is quite obvious for me.
     
  20. fallingblood

    fallingblood Agnostic Theist

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    Paul also stated that there is just one God. He was a Jew, and stated on a number of occasions that there is just one God.
     
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