Monotheism and Christianity

[Soapy]

Again, that's simply not at all true:
The Christian doctrine of the Trinity (Latin: Trinitas, lit. 'triad', from Latin: trinus"threefold") holds that God is one God, but three coeternal consubstantial persons or hypostases —the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit—as "one God in three Divine Persons"...

"The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" are not names for different parts of God, but one name for God because three persons exist in God as one entity. They cannot be separate from one another. Each person is understood as having the identical essence or nature, not merely similar natures... -- Trinity - Wikipedia ....

I am a son, a father, and a husband, so am I three different people? No, I am one with difference "essences".

As ‘Son’, who is your ‘Father’?

Trinity proposes that the ‘Son’ is the ‘Father’.

In fact, what does it mean to be a ‘Son’?

And, you are, given you say you are a ‘Husband’, also a ‘Son-in-law’ to the ‘Father’ of your wife!

But then again, not all ‘Sons’ are Fathers... not all ‘Sons’ are ‘Husbands’.

So this supposed analogy to the trinity is false. In fact ALL attempts at analogy to the trinity are false.

An egg, for instance, is composed of more than three parts....

 

[metis]

Trinity proposes that the ‘Son’ is the ‘Father’.

Only the "essence".

 

[Soapy]

Only the "essence".

The “Essence of the Father”?

Then how is the Son, GOD, if he is ESSENCE of GOD?

You would have a FOURTH [in] GOD: The Essence of God IS GOD!

Is that sense?

 

[metis]

The “Essence of the Father”?

Then how is the Son, GOD, if he is ESSENCE of GOD?

You would have a FOURTH [in] GOD: The Essence of God IS GOD!

Is that sense?

I've explained it before, thus it seems that all you want to do is argue. If you want, you can argue with this: Trinity - Wikipedia

 

[Soapy]

I've explained it before, thus it seems that all you want to do is argue. If you want, you can argue with this: Trinity - Wikipedia

If you say the wrong things - things that are not true - then it is right that I speak against it.

It is not a matter of conjecture. You relate to your belief by the fallacy that is trinity and refuse to read for yourself: ‘Test the Spirit’, the scriptures say!!

And, WIKIPEDIA... Wikipedia is not a source of scriptural truth. Wikipedia just expresses what the COMMON CONCEPT is... not what the TRUE CONCEPT is.

It DOES NOT PURPORT TO BE TRUTH OF S TOPIC.

And, for sure, if you are going to use Wikipedia or the trinity creed or similar to ‘prove’ your case then, my friend, you have already discovered that trinity is false... why? Because you have discovered that the scriptures DOES NOT TEACH TRINITY and so you need to go into the houses of doctrines that DO SAY trinity!!! And then say to me: ‘Hey, look at [this this bit of untruth] - it supports the [fallacy] I’ve been showing you’.

‘Non, mon ami!’ Prove yourself FROM THE SCRIPTURES.... it is the scriptures that is the ‘Word of God by the Holy Spirit’ in book form:

• It TEACHES US
• It GUIDES US
• It SUPPORTS US
• It SUSTAINS US
• It COMFORTS US
• It REMINDS US

just as Jesus says the advocate would do.

 

[metis]

If you say the wrong things - things that are not true - then it is right that I speak against it.

It is not a matter of conjecture. You relate to your belief by the fallacy that is trinity and refuse to read for yourself: ‘Test the Spirit’, the scriptures say!!

And, WIKIPEDIA... Wikipedia is not a source of scriptural truth. Wikipedia just expresses what the COMMON CONCEPT is... not what the TRUE CONCEPT is.

It DOES NOT PURPORT TO BE TRUTH OF S TOPIC.

And, for sure, if you are going to use Wikipedia or the trinity creed or similar to ‘prove’ your case then, my friend, you have already discovered that trinity is false... why? Because you have discovered that the scriptures DOES NOT TEACH TRINITY and so you need to go into the houses of doctrines that DO SAY trinity!!! And then say to me: ‘Hey, look at [this this bit of untruth] - it supports the [fallacy] I’ve been showing you’.

‘Non, mon ami!’ Prove yourself FROM THE SCRIPTURES.... it is the scriptures that is the ‘Word of God by the Holy Spirit’ in book form:

• It TEACHES US
• It GUIDES US
• It SUPPORTS US
• It SUSTAINS US
• It COMFORTS US
• It REMINDS US

just as Jesus says the advocate would do.

I have better things to do than to try and deal with such arrogant ignorance of what the Trinitarian concept actually says, which is somewhat variable, btw, from denomination to denomination. Sorry to confuse you.

 

[Soapy]

I have better things to do than to try and deal with such arrogant ignorance of what the Trinitarian concept actually says, which is somewhat variable, btw, from denomination to denomination. Sorry to confuse you.

Yes, GO....!

This is ALWAYS what Trinitarians do when they realise the truth. You are not the first.

If you truly believed in the trinity in the scriptures then you would PROVE YOUR CLAIMS FROM the scriptures... not some made up nonsense that cannot even validate two things that it says as a witness to its validity.

If you think that is not true - Prove it.

• Why does one part of your tri-person god acquire something that the other two do not?
• How does one part of a tri-equal god ‘empty himself’ of being god because he didn’t think that being equal to god (???) was worthwhile yet all the while remaining god at the same time?
• Since when does an almighty GOD lower himself INTO HIS OWN CREATION and even DIES for his creation.... give me a human example (we are made in the image of almighty God, after all... but not in the image of a tri-person god)
• Explain to me how Jesus is EQUAL TO your god when your your god is ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’. How can something be EQUAL to something that it is?
• What are the significant similarities between the creations of the first Adam and the ‘Last Adam’?
• Why did ALMIGHTY GOD (not your god) say to Jesus:
  • ‘You are my Son, this day I have become your Father!’?
• What does the term ‘Son’ mean in scriptures in terms of The Father (Almighty God)?
• Why did the ONE GOD of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (not your three in one pagan concoction) GRANT so many things to his only holy Son (Jesus)? (Remember you said that Jesus was God... how can there be a god who does not have everything?.... he would not be god because someone would have something god doesn’t have: p.s. having Sin is not a positive... it is a lacking of integrity)

 

[Soapy]

I have better things to do than to try and deal with such arrogant ignorance of what the Trinitarian concept actually says, which is somewhat variable, btw, from denomination to denomination. Sorry to confuse you.

Ah, I just noticed you are arguing a support for your trinity concept.... well, ok... that is the TRINITY CONCEPT.

But do not bring the trinity concept as CHRISTIAN SCRIPTURAL CONCEPT.

Christian scriptural concept is that the almighty God is the CREATOR of all things... which means that he is ‘FATHER’... which is what ‘Father’ means.

The almighty God GAVE LIFE to all living things... which, strangely enough to the foreign minded trinity concept, is exactly what ‘FATHER’ means: ‘To give life to...’

And BEING BORN to a Father means being ‘A SON’ if such a son DOES THE WORKS dutifully and righteously that their Father gives them to do.:

• ‘I did not say I was God. I only said that God is my Father [that I am the son of God]. You see I am doing the works of God and yet you want to stone me. If I am not doing the works of God then do not believe me [That I am the Son of God]’ (paraphrased)

Jesus expressed this NON-TRINITARIAN TRUTH to the Jews wherein trinity claims Jesus WAS saying that he was God...

How, when Jesus EXPRESSLY claimed he did not call himself ‘God’ that trinity claims that he WAS claiming to be ‘God’!!!!

Howbeit when Jesus speaks PLAINLY that THE FATHER is THE ONLY TRUE GOD, that trinity says, ‘Oh no, he meant that HE (Jesus) is THE ONLY TRUE GOD.

How is it that when Jesus says to PRAY to THE FATHER, for He alone IS TO BE WORSHIPPED, that trinity says, ‘Oh no, he meant that he, too, should be worshipped’

What does ‘ONLY’ mean to a trinitarian? Three!?

How then does a trinitarian interpret, ‘Only Son of God’.. does it then mean that there are THREE PERSONS in that ‘ONLY SON’?
Well, I propose that it must be so (tongue in cheek!) since the only son of God is the IMAGE OF GOD... check this:

1. Trinity says that their ONLY GOD is three persons
2. The three persons are ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’ together as their ONLY GOD(1)
3. Trinity says that the ‘ONLY SON’ IS their ‘ONLY GOD’
4. Trinity says that the ‘ONLY SON’ is the IMAGE OF THEIR ONLY GOD(2)
5. Therefore... the ‘ONLY SON’ is ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’(2)

Does the above make any sense?

A Son comes from a Father... but trinity says the only son did not come from a Father ... So what does ‘Son’ mean to a trinitarian?

And trinity INSISTS that Jesus being the image of God means that Jesus IS God...

Nut they then deny that ADAM being image of God makes Adam God also...

So what DOES image of God mean to a trinitarian because they both claim and disclaim the same definition - just as they claim, both that Jesus is God and, that Jesus is the ONLY Son of God!!

Ang offers on clarification of trinity ideology?

 

[metis]

Ah, I just noticed you are arguing a support for your trinity concept.... well, ok... that is the TRINITY CONCEPT.

But do not bring the trinity concept as CHRISTIAN SCRIPTURAL CONCEPT.

Christian scriptural concept is that the almighty God is the CREATOR of all things... which means that he is ‘FATHER’... which is what ‘Father’ means.

The almighty God GAVE LIFE to all living things... which, strangely enough to the foreign minded trinity concept, is exactly what ‘FATHER’ means: ‘To give life to...’

And BEING BORN to a Father means being ‘A SON’ if such a son DOES THE WORKS dutifully and righteously that their Father gives them to do.:

• ‘I did not say I was God. I only said that God is my Father [that I am the son of God]. You see I am doing the works of God and yet you want to stone me. If I am not doing the works of God then do not believe me [That I am the Son of God]’ (paraphrased)

Jesus expressed this NON-TRINITARIAN TRUTH to the Jews wherein trinity claims Jesus WAS saying that he was God...

How, when Jesus EXPRESSLY claimed he did not call himself ‘God’ that trinity claims that he WAS claiming to be ‘God’!!!!

Howbeit when Jesus speaks PLAINLY that THE FATHER is THE ONLY TRUE GOD, that trinity says, ‘Oh no, he meant that HE (Jesus) is THE ONLY TRUE GOD.

How is it that when Jesus says to PRAY to THE FATHER, for He alone IS TO BE WORSHIPPED, that trinity says, ‘Oh no, he meant that he, too, should be worshipped’

What does ‘ONLY’ mean to a trinitarian? Three!?

How then does a trinitarian interpret, ‘Only Son of God’.. does it then mean that there are THREE PERSONS in that ‘ONLY SON’?
Well, I propose that it must be so (tongue in cheek!) since the only son of God is the IMAGE OF GOD... check this:

1. Trinity says that their ONLY GOD is three persons
2. The three persons are ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’ together as their ONLY GOD(1)
3. Trinity says that the ‘ONLY SON’ IS their ‘ONLY GOD’
4. Trinity says that the ‘ONLY SON’ is the IMAGE OF THEIR ONLY GOD(2)
5. Therefore... the ‘ONLY SON’ is ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’(2)

Does the above make any sense?

A Son comes from a Father... but trinity says the only son did not come from a Father ... So what does ‘Son’ mean to a trinitarian?

And trinity INSISTS that Jesus being the image of God means that Jesus IS God...

Nut they then deny that ADAM being image of God makes Adam God also...

So what DOES image of God mean to a trinitarian because they both claim and disclaim the same definition - just as they claim, both that Jesus is God and, that Jesus is the ONLY Son of God!!

Ang offers on clarification of trinity ideology?

I've explained this to you before from a Catholic perspective, thus the above makes not one iota of sense because it bastardizes how we view that concept.

Also, certainty is the enemy of good theology, and your post above smacks of it.

 

[Soapy]

I've explained this to you before from a Catholic perspective, thus the above makes not one iota of sense because it bastardizes how we view that concept.

Also, certainty is the enemy of good theology, and your post above smacks of it.

Ah, you mean to say that you’ve realised that trinity does not stand up to scrutiny. Hence I see you bring your trinity doctrine down to the lowest level: the Catholic dogma.

Can you dispute any of the things I wrote to you?

Can you deny that Adam was ‘Son of God’ as shown in scriptures (Luke 3:38)?

If so then why do you not deny that Jesus, being the replacement for the sinful Adam, the same?

Can you deny that Adam was created ‘Image of God’ - that image of God is man, a being in the flesh.

If you do deny Adam, then how do you say that Jesus, being also ‘Image of God’ IS GOD.

But really: How can the IMAGE of something BE the thing it is image of???

So many questions That trinity cannot answer...

What purpose is served by trinity JESUS-GOD BEING GRANTED things he doesn’t have when he is God by trinity and has those things anyway!

How is Jesus-God made to be a HIGH PRIEST to GOD if he IS GOD?

How does Jesus-God HAVE A GOD if he IS GOD?

Answers, please!!!

 

[metis]

Ah, you mean to say that you’ve realised that trinity does not stand up to scrutiny. Hence I see you bring your trinity doctrine down to the lowest level: the Catholic dogma.

Keep telling yourself that. But instead of just spouting off, maybe do some research first, and here's a reasonable place to start at least: Trinity - Wikipedia

 

[Soapy]

Keep telling yourself that. But instead of just spouting off, maybe do some research first, and here's a reasonable place to start at least: Trinity - Wikipedia

You know when you enter a debate.... the idea is to put your case - not stoop to snobbishness over your favourite ideas.

Set out your case for your belief FROM THE common BOOK OF SCRIPTURES (The holy Bible). Spouting what CATHOLICISM says is not YOUR BELIEF. It is the belief of those who wrote the Catholic creeds and ideologies and dogmas -which set out to say that YOU MUST BELIEVE this or that NO MATTER HOW FOOLISH it sounds.

Do you notice that I set out my belief FROM THE SCRIPTURES. I do not use or introduce EXTERNAL DOCTRINE into my posts.

And that is why you cannot answer to what I wrote... because the Catholic, or trinitarian, belief DOES NOT STAND UP TO SCRUTINY.

In order to respond, you need to refer to trinity (Catholic, or otherwise) fallacy ...and when you realise it cannot concur with the scriptures, you do what I have observed all such persons of belief do... RUN AWAY ... and quite right, I guess. After all, where did you go to after you realise what you have been fed with all these years was FALSE??

Yes, where do you go? So, you dig in and stick to the dogma you have been taught. You know something is WRONG with your dogma belief but you feaf to change!!

See, hear!!! If your doctrine was truth then YOU WOULD NOT FEAR TO ANSWER....

So, for instance:

1. Why is GOD called ‘Father’?
2. What does ‘Father’ mean?
3. What is a ‘Son’?
4. Is a Son EQUAL to his Father who supplies him with his needs, teaches him, nurtured him, protects him, and praises him for good works the Father set him to do?
5. Does the Son seek to please the Father - or is it the Father who seeks to please the Son?
6. Why does the Son RECEIVE power and authority FROM the Father and then TEMPTED to see if he would misuse it ... if the son is EQUAL to the Father who CANNOT BE TEMPTED?
7. To be TEMPTED requires the tempted person to desire to gain something he does not already own - to seek a betterment over the position he is currently in... The Father cannot be tempted because he OWNS ALL THINGS and therefore cannot be tempted to gain what he already has... but the Son....? Explain.
8. If Jesus is almighty God, RULER over heaven and earth... why does the son DIE and is RESURRECTED BY THE FATHER and do a mighty work in order to become KING OVER THE EARTH.... a position FAF FAR LESS than KIMG OVER HEAVEN?
9. Why are we COMMANDED to WORSHIP GOD the FATHER but only to PRAISE, HONOR, and GLORIFY the Son?

Please, I beg you... if you truly believe your ideology is truth, answer the questions above USING THE SCRIPTURES... NOT DOGMA!!! Show it with EVIDENCE from the scriptures, ALONE, like GOD is ONE GOD, ALONE.

p.s. God did not say he was ‘ONE GOD’ of three persons... God said he was THE ONLY GOD that the children of Israel must worship. This, he told them, because they were among tribes and nations who worshipped MANY GODS... tribes and nations who BELIEVED that there were MANY GODS (Spirit persons, Deities of worshipfulness) who created and sustained the world and directed their lives. YHWH God told them not to believe in such PAGAN beliefs, not to carry out PAGAN worship BUT TO WORSHIP HIM, YHWH, ALONE, as their ONE [AND ONLY] GOD... and that is borne out by Jesus saying:

• ‘Father,... this means eternal life, that they should believe in YOU, THE ONLY TRUE GOD....’

So you see, though there are ‘GODS’ aplenty to pagan worshippers, for us TRUE WORSHIPPERS:

• ‘There is only ONE GOD: The Father...’

And that is Scriptures (... and that is Gospel...)

 

[Joshua Pryce]

Psalms 95 3 For the Lord is a great God, and a great King above all gods.

Angels according to the bible of sons of God. A son is his father in authority, just like a prince becomes a king. Demons were angels and God still sees them as angels, but rebellious angels. He calls them the devils angels. So God is king above every God and is the true master of everything of our pleasure and suffering, all designed for spiritual growth and closeness of course.