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Monotheism and Christianity

jhwatts

Member
Christianity adhere tightly. I've spent some time looking through the Bible concerning the subject. I have found the following.


Psalms 82 1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

Psalms 96 4 For the Lord is great, and greatly to be praised: he is to be feared above all gods. 5 For all the gods of the nations are idols: but the Lord made the heavens.

Psalms 82 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. 8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Psalms 86 8 Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord; neither are there any works like unto thy works.

Psalms 95 3 For the Lord is a great God, and a great King above all gods.

Psalms 97 9 For thou, Lord, art high above all the earth: thou art exalted far above all gods.

Psalms 136 2 O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever.

I Samuel 28 13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.


My questions is, what Biblically builds the case for monotheism in Christianity?
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
My questions is, what Biblically builds the case for monotheism in Christianity?

Biblically? Not a thing.

Monotheism...or the claim to it...is traditional, not scriptural. The MOST Christianity can claim, biblically, is henotheism. That is, the worship of one God, while acknowledging that there might be others that one does not/must not worship.

The problem, of course, is that most of Christianity has to deal with three entities; God the Creator, His Son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost; the Comforter.

There are THREE of these People...er, Persons. So...the doctrine of the Trinity comes, which is about as confusing a thing as I've ever attempted to parse.

......and most people I talk to, when they speak of the Trinity, end up talking like Modalists, which is supposed to be heretical. I've never been able to figure either one of 'em out. However, at least Modalism does address the problem of monotheism, as do Jehovah's Witnesses.

I've never claimed to be a monotheist, though I do worship God the Father THROUGH His Son. so in that sense I'm closer to being a monotheist than any Trinitarian is.

but Trinitarians will argue with me on that.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Christianity adhere tightly. I've spent some time looking through the Bible concerning the subject. I have found the following.


Psalms 82 1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

Psalms 96 4 For the Lord is great, and greatly to be praised: he is to be feared above all gods. 5 For all the gods of the nations are idols: but the Lord made the heavens.

Psalms 82 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. 8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Psalms 86 8 Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord; neither are there any works like unto thy works.

Psalms 95 3 For the Lord is a great God, and a great King above all gods.

Psalms 97 9 For thou, Lord, art high above all the earth: thou art exalted far above all gods.

Psalms 136 2 O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever.

I Samuel 28 13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.


My questions is, what Biblically builds the case for monotheism in Christianity?
No doubt, you are going toward the trinity, Biblically, the God head.

If Iam correct, let me know, and I will tackle your question.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Biblically? Not a thing.

Monotheism...or the claim to it...is traditional, not scriptural. The MOST Christianity can claim, biblically, is henotheism. That is, the worship of one God, while acknowledging that there might be others that one does not/must not worship.

The problem, of course, is that most of Christianity has to deal with three entities; God the Creator, His Son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost; the Comforter.

There are THREE of these People...er, Persons. So...the doctrine of the Trinity comes, which is about as confusing a thing as I've ever attempted to parse.

......and most people I talk to, when they speak of the Trinity, end up talking like Modalists, which is supposed to be heretical. I've never been able to figure either one of 'em out. However, at least Modalism does address the problem of monotheism, as do Jehovah's Witnesses.

I've never claimed to be a monotheist, though I do worship God the Father THROUGH His Son. so in that sense I'm closer to being a monotheist than any Trinitarian is.

but Trinitarians will argue with me on that.
Of course we will.

Your are attempting to define an utterly unworldly being, by using your knowledge and intuition as a totally fallen worldly being. It takes a bit of hubris to think you have the ability to do that.

What constitutes one God to you ? suspect using your understanding of people,God has a single point of consciousness and a single (body ? ). God doesn´t seem to have a body,He appears to be a form of energy in His primary state.

We KNOW there is only one God. When Christ said ¨ I and the Father are one¨ what does it mean ? You will add a qualifier that isn´t in the Bible, something like one in purpose. I reject that as human musings not found in the Bible,

Jews were to worship only God, yet the Apostles worshiped Christ. I believe it was Peter who called Christ ¨ my lord and my God. ¨

Based on these examples and others, it appears John succinctly summed it up, ¨ in the beginning was the Word, ................................ and THE WORD WAS GOD. 8 year olds in sunday school class know that the Word is Christ. Now, you have a little wiggle room here, but not much.

So, Did Christ lie about the whole deal ? No.

Further, there is OT evidence for the plurality of God, like ¨ let US make man in our image¨

I have studied with JWś for years, wonderful people. From their Arian position they suppose all Biblical translations are wrong, and theirs is different from absolutely any other, and they change Scripture in their translation, and they offer some interesting arguments to prove the Bible doesn´t say what it says.

So, How can God be a single being if Christ is the Son and God is the Father, yet they are both God ?

A single being , the God, might have multiple (3) points of consciousness, instead of one like us. These points, would be completely connected at all times, as they are one, yet be able to manifest themselves individually as required. Obviously there is a primary directing point for the other two. Yet they are one being.

Another way to look at it is, the single unit is the family, smith, yet there are numerous Smiths connected by Blood instead of directly and perpetually by consciousness. Or not.

God is way beyond my pay grade to define, I simply take what the Book and within it what Christ said, and accept it.

I don try and put God into a box with the sides and top made of my logic and reasoning .

He is who He is
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
so in that sense I'm closer to being a monotheist than any Trinitarian is.

but Trinitarians will argue with me on that.
The Trinitarian concept is monotheistic, with Jesus and the Holy Spirit being of the essence of God the Father but not the Father.
 

susanblange

Active Member
Christianity is not monotheistic, they believe in three gods. If God is three-in-one, then he suffers from a "multiple personality disorder". Jesus is the modern day idol of Israel and he has been kicked out of Heaven and reincarnated. He died the "deaths of the uncircumcised". Ezekiel 28:10. He has a role to play in the end times, he will lead those who are opposed to the true Messiah. This time, he will die by bursting into flames. Ezekiel 28:18-19.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Christianity is not monotheistic, they believe in three gods. If God is three-in-one, then he suffers from a "multiple personality disorder". Jesus is the modern day idol of Israel and he has been kicked out of Heaven and reincarnated. He died the "deaths of the uncircumcised". Ezekiel 28:10. He has a role to play in the end times, he will lead those who are opposed to the true Messiah. This time, he will die by bursting into flames. Ezekiel 28:18-19.
Nonsense
 

jhwatts

Member
No doubt, you are going toward the trinity, Biblically, the God head.

If Iam correct, let me know, and I will tackle your question.
No. I'm not trying to build a case for a trinity. I am thinking more specifically of other gods such as those worshipped in the region the Bible takes place.
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
The Trinitarian concept is monotheistic, with Jesus and the Holy Spirit being of the essence of God the Father but not the Father.

See? Modalism dressed up as trinitarianism.....

All to try to figure out how to make Three into One.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
No. I'm not trying to build a case for a trinity. I am thinking more specifically of other gods such as those worshipped in the region the Bible takes place.
I think the Bible makes it clear that their is no other God but THE God, YHWH.

It has to be this way because he created everything there is, there cannot be another God.

So, the other gods are just lumps of wood or stone, or created beings in rebellion against God, playing a role.
 

jhwatts

Member
I think the Bible makes it clear that their is no other God but THE God, YHWH.

It has to be this way because he created everything there is, there cannot be another God.

So, the other gods are just lumps of wood or stone, or created beings in rebellion against God, playing a role.

Where in the Bible?
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Where in the Bible?
Genesis the first chapter. In the book of Job God addresses the creation of the stars. In the Gospel Christs relates seeing the rebellious heavenly beings being cast from heaven. Finally, Revelation sorts all created beings out, some to eternal life, the rest to destruction. The only time other gods are mentioned in the NT are as false gods, or as satan, the god of this world, meaning how many perceive him and how he effects the activity on earth, he will be destroyed in the end,

I admit that I am not as familiar with the OT as I am the NT, but I have never read a passage there about other gods where they are anything but false gods directly or by implication. I don´t think a Jewish Rabbi, who knows the OT inside and out would disagree with me.
 

susanblange

Active Member
Genesis the first chapter. In the book of Job God addresses the creation of the stars. In the Gospel Christs relates seeing the rebellious heavenly beings being cast from heaven. Finally, Revelation sorts all created beings out, some to eternal life, the rest to destruction. The only time other gods are mentioned in the NT are as false gods, or as satan, the god of this world, meaning how many perceive him and how he effects the activity on earth, he will be destroyed in the end,

I admit that I am not as familiar with the OT as I am the NT, but I have never read a passage there about other gods where they are anything but false gods directly or by implication. I don´t think a Jewish Rabbi, who knows the OT inside and out would disagree with me.
The Rabbi's only read and study the Torah, also called the Pentateuch. They have no understanding of the prophetic books of the Bible, Job-Malachi. These books contain all the scripture about the Messiah. The Jews are not interested, they are ignorant and they will be punished for it. Hosea 4:6. "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge..." As a group, the Jews have rejected the Messiah, which was prophesied. Job 24:1. "Why, seeing times are not hidden from the Almighty, do they that know him not see his days?"
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
The Rabbi's only read and study the Torah, also called the Pentateuch. They have no understanding of the prophetic books of the Bible, Job-Malachi. These books contain all the scripture about the Messiah. The Jews are not interested, they are ignorant and they will be punished for it. Hosea 4:6. "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge..." As a group, the Jews have rejected the Messiah, which was prophesied. Job 24:1. "Why, seeing times are not hidden from the Almighty, do they that know him not see his days?"
All correct, but has little to do with the questions I asked
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
See? Modalism dressed up as trinitarianism.....

All to try to figure out how to make Three into One.
Maybe look up the word "essence", as it is heavily used in this and some other areas relating to Judaism and Christianity. The Book of Revelation is full of them, for example. The NT references to the Body & Blood is another area whereas it's used.
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
Of course we will.
A single being , the God, might have multiple (3) points of consciousness, instead of one like us. These points, would be completely connected at all times, as they are one, yet be able to manifest themselves individually as required. Obviously there is a primary directing point for the other two. Yet they are one being.

That...is pretty classic modalism.

Another way to look at it is, the single unit is the family, smith, yet there are numerous Smiths connected by Blood instead of directly and perpetually by consciousness. Or not.

God is way beyond my pay grade to define, I simply take what the Book and within it what Christ said, and accept it.

I don try and put God into a box with the sides and top made of my logic and reasoning .

He is who He is

Neither do I, but then I have more scripture to help me out than you do.
 
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