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Monism

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Jan 26, 2021.

  1. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    are vedantans monists? with the great four utterances?


    was jesus teaching monism with his I and the father are one? or the name above all names?


    who are you keeping company with?



     
    #1 Fool, Jan 26, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  2. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    śrī kṛṣṇasya sevāyām - “In Lord Krishna’s service”
    That’s not monism. I don’t believe it’s even one part. It’s certainly not Advaita Vedanta. If it were Advaita, God the Father, Jesus and I are one. Monism says all things come from one source. I’m Hinduism it’s Brahman, in Taoism it’s the Tao. In modern cosmology and physics it’s energy. Pantheism is monism because pantheism posits one source, God. But monism doesn’t require a God to be the source. The basis of this universe, that everything is energy, is one example of monism. The God of the Bible, biblical theology and cosmology are not monism/monist.

    And I believe this is a “deja vu all over again” thread. That’s ok, just making an observation.
     
    #2 Jainarayan, Jan 26, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  3. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    exodus 3:14 is a verb which basically says i will be what i create.


    or


    i will be what i will be
     
  4. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    No, it doesn’t say that. God and creation are not the same thing. He is outside of his creation. “I am that I am” means that God exists of himself. He has no source or creator.
     
  5. Fool

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    knock on wood



    John 14:20, NIV: "On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you."

    John 14:20, ESV: "In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you."

    John 14:20, KJV: "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you."

    John 14:20, NASB: "On that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I in you."

    John 14:20, NLT: "When I am raised to life again, you will know that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you."

    John 14:20, CSB: "On that day you will know that I am in my Father, you are in me, and I am in you."



     
  6. Fool

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  7. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    Keep trying to pound a square peg into a round hole :shrug: ... sheeza no gonna work.
     
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  8. Quintessence

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    To add another layer, monism is technically a reference to one's philosophical position on the fundamental substances of reality. While in some cases this is connected to theology, it can also be assessed as a separate question:

    • Q1: What are the fundamental substance(s) that underlies all reality?
      • Possible answers: one substance (monism), two substances (dualism), three or more substances (pluralism)
    • Q2: What is worthy of worship and how many in number are they?
      • Possible answers: monotheism (one worthy of worship), duotheism (two worthy of worship), polytheism (multiple worthy of worship); with many other variants and qualities of the gods
    Someone can believe there are two fundamental substances for example (matter and spirit) while being a polytheist. In either case, the OP seems to be talking about monotheism, not really monism.
     
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  9. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    Yes, I think so.
     
  10. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    The problem with the theological concept of Monism is that it is a slippery concept with many variations.

    Monism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

    Monism

    "There are many monisms. What they share is that they attribute oneness. Where they differ is in what they target and how they count.

    This entry focuses on two of the more historically important monisms: existence monism and priority monism. Existence monism targets concrete objects and counts by tokens. This is the doctrine that exactly one concrete object token exists. Priority monism also targets concrete objects but counts by basic tokens. This is the doctrine that exactly one concrete object token is basic, and is equivalent to the classical doctrine that the whole is prior to its (proper) parts.

    For roughly a century, neither existence nor priority monism was accorded much respect, nor were they even properly distinguished. Indeed, the tradition associated with these doctrines was long dismissed as being somewhere between obscure and ridiculous. But attitudes have evolved, because there are serious arguments for such monisms. Priority monism may especially deserve serious reconsideration.

    Though this entry will focus on existence monism and priority monism, there are of course other historically important monisms, including substance monism. Substance monism targets concrete objects and counts by highest types. This is the doctrine that all concrete objects fall under one highest type (perhaps material, or mental, or some neutral underlying type: here the way divides). This topic is covered elsewhere in the encyclopedia (Robinson 2011)."

    What form of Monism are you proposing?' and others posting; 'What form of Monism are you denying?'
     
  11. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    monism is basically pantheism. all in one and one in all
     
  12. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    pantheism

    there is nothing apart from god
     
  13. Fool

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    no

    monotheism is the idea that there is a duality. that there is one god and then the believer separate from it

    but the bible teaches that there exists nothing separate from god, there is no other.


    isaiah 45:5-6
     
  14. Quintessence

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    Not sure where you learned that. Monotheism just means belief/acceptance of one god - that's it. How that god relates to humans is a different issue that emerges from specific theologies as monotheism only answers the question "how many are gods?"
     
  15. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    Wrong again. Monism doesn’t require a God. Pantheism can be monism but monism is not panthers. Note the word theism in pantheism. ... atheism from theos, God. I don’t know what you’re trying to get at but it’s failing epically.
     
  16. Fool

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    its an acceptance of one god separate from self.

    self isn't claiming to be the one god that self worships
     
  17. Fool

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    there is no duality in monism. there is just the divinity being manifested in all.



    there isn't some god and some otherness; so the line of distinction between a god and self doesn't exist. that god vs this self is dualism. so you are correct there is no god in monism because all is divine and no thing
     
  18. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    Monism doesn't require a God. I said the universe can be considered monist because it is one and only one thing... energy.

    No, please stop using words you don't know the meanings of. Māyā (maa-yaa) is not illusion. It is the power of Brahman or a deity to cause illusion. Līlā (lee-laa) is play, sport, game. It is what God (whether Vishnu, Shiva, Devī) does when manifesting and living in the material world. When Krishna was a toddler and got into all that mischief, when He lied to His mother about not eating dirt, it's not because He is sanctioning children lying or stealing butter. That is His līlā, experiencing life as a human, to have our experiences. Or to teach us.

    Correct, but monism doesn't require a God. I think I said that... a couple of times. o_O

    If you want to learn about these things you could outright ask instead of saying what something is, getting it wrong and then getting the explanation.
     
  19. Fool

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    agreed

    so pantheism can be monist as you stated


    the idea in judaism comes from the name at exodus 3:14


    jesus also stated what ever you do unto the least of these, you do unto me. again there is something inherent about all.

    there is a reiteration of this pantheism and monism at colossians 3:11
     
    #19 Fool, Jan 28, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2021
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