1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Mohammed in the Bible

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Islam, Sep 1, 2006.

  1. Islam

    Islam Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    222
    Ratings:
    +13
    The Biblical prophecies on the advent of the Prophet Muhammad are evidence of the truth of Islam for people who believe in the Bible.
    In Deuteronomy 18, Moses stated that God told him: “I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.” (Deuteronomy 18:18-19).

    From these verses we conclude that the prophet in this prophecy must have the following three characteristics:
    1) That he will be like Moses.
    2) That he will come from the brothers of the Israelites, i.e. the Ishmaelites.
    3) That God will put His words in to the mouth of this prophet and that he will declare what God commands him.
    Let us examine these three characteristics in more depth:
    1) A prophet like Moses:
    There were hardly any two prophets who were so much alike as Moses and Muhammad. Both were given a comprehensive law and code of life. Both encountered their enemies and were victorious in miraculous ways. Both were accepted as prophets and statesmen. Both migrated following conspiracies to assassinate them. Analogies between Moses and Jesus overlook not only the above similarities but other crucial ones as well. These include the natural birth, the family life, and death of Moses and Muhammad but not of Jesus. Moreover Jesus was regarded by his followers as the Son of God and not exclusively as a prophet of God, as Moses and Muhammad were and as Muslims believe Jesus was. So, this prophecy refers to the Prophet Muhammad and not to Jesus, because Muhammad is more like Moses than Jesus.
    Also, one notices from the Gospel of John that the Jews were waiting for the fulfillment of three distinct prophecies. The first was the coming of Christ. The second was the coming of Elijah. The third was the coming of the Prophet. This is obvious from the three questions that were posed to John the Baptist: “Now this was John’s testimony, when the Jews of Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was. He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, “I am not the Christ.” They asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” He answered, “No.” (John 1:19-21). If we look in a Bible with cross-references, we will find in the marginal notes where the words “the Prophet” occur in John 1:21, that these words refer to the prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:15 and 18:18. We conclude from this that Jesus Christ is not the prophet mentioned in Deuteronomy 18:18.
    2) From the brothers of the Israelites:
    Abraham had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac (Genesis 21). Ishmael became the grandfather of the Arab nation, and Isaac became the grandfather of the Jewish nation. The prophet spoken of was not to come from among the Jews themselves, but from among their brothers, i.e. the Ishmaelites. Muhammad, a descendant of Ishmael, is indeed this prophet.
    Also, Isaiah 42:1-13 speaks of the servant of God, His “chosen one” and “messenger” who will bring down a law. “He will not falter or be discouraged till he establishes justice on earth. In his law the islands will put their hope.” (Isaiah 42:4). Verse 11, connects that awaited one with the descendants of Kedar. Who is Kedar? According to Genesis 25:13, Kedar was the second son of Ishmael, the ancestor of the Prophet Muhammad.
    3) God will put His words in the mouth of this prophet:
    The words of God (the Holy Quran) were truly put into Muhammad’s mouth. God sent the Angel Gabriel to teach Muhammad the exact words of God (the Holy Quran) and asked him to dictate them to the people as he heard them. The words are therefore not his own. They did not come from his own thoughts, but were put into his mouth by the Angel Gabriel. During the life time of Muhammad, and under his supervision, these words were then memorized and written by his companions.
    Also, this prophecy in Deuteronomy mentioned that this prophet will speak the words of God in the name of God. If we looked to the Holy Quran, we will find that all its chapters, except Chapter 9, are preceded or begin with the phrase, “In the Name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.”
    Another indication (other than the prophecy in Deuteronomy) is that Isaiah ties the messenger connected with Kedar with a new song (a scripture in a new language) to be sung to the Lord (Isaiah 42:10-11). This is mentioned more clearly in the prophecy of Isaiah: “and another tongue, will he speak to this people” (Isaiah 28:11 KJV). Another related point, is that the Quran was revealed in sections over a span of twenty-three years. It is interesting to compare this with Isaiah 28 which speaks of the same thing, “For it is: Do and do, do and do, rule on rule, rule on rule; a little here, a little there.” (Isaiah 28:10).
    [FONT=Arial (Arabic)]
    [/FONT]
     
  2. Islam

    Islam Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    222
    Ratings:
    +13
    The Prophet, The Paraclete, Is Muhammad :
    Up to the time of Jesus (peace be upon him), the Jews were still awaiting for the prophet like Moses prophesied in Deuteronomy 18:18. When John the Baptist came, they asked him if he was Christ and he said, “I am not the Christ.” They asked him if he was Elijah, and he said, “I am not.” Then, in apparent reference to Deuteronomy 18:18, they asked him, “Are you the Prophet?” He answered, “No.” (John 1:19-21).

    In the Gospel according to John (Chapters 14, 15, 16 KJV), Jesus spoke of the “Paraclete” or comforter who will come after him, who will be sent by God, who will teach new things which the contemporaries of Jesus could not bear. While the Paraclete is described as the spirit of truth, (the meaning of which resembles Muhammad’s famous title al-amin, the trustworthy), he is identified in one verse as the Holy Ghost (John 14:26 KJV). Such a designation is however inconsistent with the profile of that Paraclete. In the words of the Dictionary of the Bible (Ed. J. Mackenzie), “These items, it must be admitted do not give an entirely coherent picture.”

    Indeed history tells us that many early Christians understood the Paraclete to be a man and not a spirit. This might explain the followers who responded to some who claimed, without meeting the criteria stipulated by Jesus, to be the awaited “Paraclete.”

    Indeed history tells us that many early Christians understood tParaclete to be a man and not a spirit. This might explain the followers who responded to some who claimed, without meeting the criteria stipulated by Jesus, to be the awaited “Paraclete.”
    Indeed history tells us that many early Christians understood
    Paraclete to be a man and not a spirit. This might explain the followers who responded to some who claimed, without meeting the criteria stipulated by Jesus, to be the awaited “Paraclete.”

    It was the Prophet Muhammad who was the Paraclete, Comforter, helper, and admonisher sent by God after Jesus. He testified of Jesus, taught new things which could not be borne at Jesus’ time, he spoke what he heard (the Holy Quran), he dwells with the believers (through his well-preserved teachings). Such teachings will remain forever because he was the last messenger of God, the only Universal Messenger to unite the whole of humanity under God, upon the path of preserved truth. He told of many things to come which came to pass in the minutest detail, meeting the criterion given by Moses to distinguish between the true prophet and the false prophets (Deuteronomy 18:22 KJV). He did “convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment.” (John 16:8).

    Abraham is widely regarded as the Patriarch of monotheism and the common father of the Jews, Christians and Muslims. Through His second son, Isaac, came all Israelite prophets including such towering figures as Jacob, Joseph, Moses, David, Solomon and Jesus. May peace and blessings be upon them all. The advent of these great prophets was in partial fulfillment of all prophets an article of faith.

    Was the first born son of Abraham (Ishmael) and his descendants included in God’s covenant and promise? A few verses from the Bible may help shed some light on this question:
    1) Genesis 12:2-3 speaks of God’s promise to Abraham and his descendants before any child was born to him.
    2) Genesis 17:4 reiterates God’s promise after the birth of Ishmael and before the birth of Isaac.
    3) In Genesis,
    ch. 21, Isaac is specifically blessed, but Ishmael was also specifically blessed and promised by God to become “a great nation,” especially in Genesis 21:13, 18.
    4) According to Deuteronomy 21:15-17, the traditional rights and privileges of the first born son are not to be affected by the social status of his mother (being a free woman such as Sarah, Isaac’s mother, or a “maidservant” as Hagar, Ishmael’s mother). This is only consistent with the moral and humanitarian principles of all revealed faiths.
    5) The full legitimacy of Ishmael as Abraham’s son and “offspring” and the full legitimacy of his mother, Hagar, as Abraham’s wife, are clearly stated in Genesis 21:13 and 16:3.

    After Jesus, the last Israelite messenger and prophet, it was time that God’s promise to bless Ishmael and his descendants be fulfilled. Less than 600 years after Jesus, came the last messenger of God, Muhammad , from the progeny of Abraham through Ishmael. God’s blessings for both of the main branches of Abraham’s family tree were now fulfilled.

    Was The Shift of Religious Leadership Prophesied:
    Following the rejection of the last Israelite prophet, Jesus, it was about time that God’s promise to make Ishmael a great nation be fulfilled (Genesis 21:13, 18).
    Jesus said: “Therefore I tell you that the Kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.” (Matthew 21:43). Those people among Ishmael’s ddescendants (the rejected stone in Matthew 21:42) who were victorious against all superpowers of their time as prophesied by Jesus: “He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed.” (Matthew 21:44).

    Muhammad’s Migration Prophesied in the Bible:
    Indeed the incident of the migration of the Prophet and his persecuted followers is vividly described in Isaiah 21:13-17. That section foretold as well about the battle of Badr, in which the few ill-armed faithful miraculously defeated the men of Kedar, who sought to destroy Islam and intimidate their own folks who turned to Islam.

    Out of Context Coincidence:
    Is it possible that the numerous prophecies cited here are, individually and combined, all out of context misinterpretations? Is the opposite true, that such infrequently studied verses support each other consistently and clearly, pointing to the advent of the man who changed the course of human history, the Prophet Muhammad ? Is it reasonable to conclude that all of these prophecies, appearing in different books of the Bible and spoken by various prophets at different times, were all coincidence?
    As was mentioned before, God has said about the prophet mentioned in Deuteronomy 18, who is Muhammad : “If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.” (Deuteronomy 18:19).2
     
  3. Snowbear

    Snowbear Nita Okhata

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,420
    Ratings:
    +263
    Many of us who actually believe the Bible is the Word of God disagree with your conclusions.
     
  4. Booko

    Booko Deviled Hen

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2006
    Messages:
    18,523
    Ratings:
    +1,380


    Well, you're only off by about 6 sons.

    Abraham had another wife called Keturah, and she had six sons (Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah) which became the six tribes of the Medes. (1 Chronicles 32, 33)

    And now that God has kept His promise to Abraham through the sons he had by his first two wives, it's time for Him to keep His promise through the third one.

    God always keeps His promises. ;)
    [FONT=Arial (Arabic)]
    [/FONT]
     
  5. Islam

    Islam Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    222
    Ratings:
    +13
  6. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    29,091
    Ratings:
    +14,870
    Religion:
    Beyond the Light
    Ahhhh yes... the Latvian clause.
     
  7. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2004
    Messages:
    9,497
    Ratings:
    +927
    christians use jewish prophecy to prove the divinity/messiahship of Jesus and i don't buy it...
    why should this be any different:rolleyes:
     
  8. Booko

    Booko Deviled Hen

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2006
    Messages:
    18,523
    Ratings:
    +1,380
    Yes, he's given RF all of Latvia as an inheritance. :D
     
  9. Trey of Diamonds

    Trey of Diamonds Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2006
    Messages:
    7,996
    Ratings:
    +666
    What exactly is the point of this thread? That Mohammad is a prophet of God or that he was foretold in the Christian Bible? I believe that Mohammad was a prophet of God sent for the descendents of Ishmael but I don’t know about him being foretold in the Bible, that might be a stretch.
     
  10. Islam

    Islam Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    222
    Ratings:
    +13
    1) Mohammed peace be upon him wasnt sent for descendents of Ishmael he was sent for the entire world.
    2) Yes :) He was mentioned in the Bible.
    http://www.islamicweb.com/bible/
     
  11. Mujahid Mohammed

    Mujahid Mohammed Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    1,306
    Ratings:
    +99
    Religion:
    Muslim
    You have no way of verifying it. If it is not supported by what is stated in the Quran. the Prophet told us about these things to not accept it and not reject it because you have no way of knowing if it is true unless verified by Quran. That is why we call it the Firqan - the criterion
     
  12. Mujahid Mohammed

    Mujahid Mohammed Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    1,306
    Ratings:
    +99
    Religion:
    Muslim
    He is only giving you two examples there are many others the major events in his life have been catalogued in the bible.
     
  13. BruceDLimber

    BruceDLimber Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2005
    Messages:
    5,175
    Ratings:
    +222
    With, of course, the note that this promise through the third one will also reinforce the first promise given the actual descent from both the first and third wives!

    (Just to quibble.) :)

    Bruce
     
  14. Trey of Diamonds

    Trey of Diamonds Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2006
    Messages:
    7,996
    Ratings:
    +666
    Interesting, I will have to give it more thought. Are you saying the because he was in the Bible he is a true prophet or are you saying that because he is in the Bible we should all become Muslim?
     
  15. Islam

    Islam Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    222
    Ratings:
    +13
    No one has to become a Muslim its their choice "no compulsion in relegion" (Holly Quran). Im saying both. Muslims believe in Jesus christ and they follow him as a prophet therefore they do believe in the Bible just like Christians in Moses, however the Bible was changed dramatically over the course of years so its not the authentic one which revealed upon to Jesus peace be upon him. Because hes in the Bible, the part of him in the bible could only be from God since only he knows the future. If Christians believe in the Bible and hes in it.. is there an excuse good enough for not following your own book which says of the final prophet (Mohammed) who was sent for all humanity btw not a specific group of people since hes the final messenger.
     
  16. Islam

    Islam Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    222
    Ratings:
    +13
    The Bible has been changed, its original message seizes to exist (worship one God and surrender yourself to him). If you are a boss at work and your workers are stealing from you and you know that they are, you go and kill your son and tell them, ok ive punished my son so i wont punish you, what? That doesnt make any sence why would God do that? How can God even have a son? Allah is one (God in Arabic means Allah) he has no partners, no children and there are no links between us and him, if you want firgivness you ask only him u dont go to a priest or whoever and tell him bless me father i have sinned, no u confess to God, and u prey to him. The relationship between one and God is between him and God!
     
  17. Islam

    Islam Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    222
    Ratings:
    +13
  18. Hacker

    Hacker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,692
    Ratings:
    +269
    Some people have proof that the bible is the true word of God, and you think the Quaran is the true word of God, I don't think any of them are! Neither of them sound like a loving God to me(although there are some versus I agree with). Just my opinion. IF God wanted to truley reveal himself, then these holy books wouldn't conflict, and they do conflict. One book claims that it's God's true word and same with the other....no one can say for sure which one is right imho. This is one reason I have trouble discerning what the true Word of God is because there is things in the bible I don 't agree with and there is things in the Quaran I don't agree with, meaning, I don't agree with it coming from "God" himself.
     
  19. BruceDLimber

    BruceDLimber Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2005
    Messages:
    5,175
    Ratings:
    +222
    Try "ceases."

    And this is only true in your opinions.

    Other religionists, including both Christians and Baha'is, disagree that the Biblical message has disappeared....

    Peace,

    Bruce
     
  20. Snowbear

    Snowbear Nita Okhata

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,420
    Ratings:
    +263
    Hmmmm.... You're right - the Bible does mention Muhammed :eek:...
    Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
    16 You shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?

    Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ! Or, There! Do not believe it.
    24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders; so much so that, if it were possible, they would deceive even the elect.
    25 Behold, I have told you beforehand.
    26 Therefore if they shall say to you, Behold, He is in the desert! Do not go out. Behold, He is in the secret rooms! Do not believe it.

    Mark 13:21 And then if anyone shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ! Or, lo, there! Do not believe him.
    22 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will give miraculous signs and wonders in order to seduce, if possible, even the elect.
    23 But take heed; behold, I have told you all things beforehand.

    2Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who secretly will bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing on themselves swift destruction.
    2 And many will follow their pernicious ways, and because of them the way of truth will be evil spoken of.
    3 And through covetousness they will use you for gain with well-turned words; for whom judgment from of old does not linger, and their destruction does not sleep.


     
Loading...