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Mohamed (PBUH) in the bible !!!

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by TashaN, Sep 5, 2005.

  1. Mujahid Mohammed

    Mujahid Mohammed Well-Known Member

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    The bible originally had over 80 books not 66 and the number of men working on it is unknown. There are over 250,000 different manuscripts none written in hebrew and none are identical when I list some of the contradictions and get your input it may become more clear.

    This is not true the Gospel of Barnabus contradicts all of these canons that the church adopted after the council of Nicea. He was dudg up with scrolls attached to his chest in the original language of Jesus and we know he walked with Jesus. Why is this never acknowledged by Christians.



    I know of the many prophesies in the bible but here is one i have never got an answer on in Isa 21:7 my christian bretheren tell me the person riding the donkey is Jesus, so when did the HOLY GHOST ever ride a camel. If this prophecy is about Jesus musn't all parts of the prohecy come to pass inorder for it to be true. And again why is the story of Osiris, Mithras , Baal, Buddha, Kristna, Crite, Hesus, Jao, Odin, Thor and others all to their people have almost the same story of Jesus almost word for word and these individual preceded him so it is impossible to say they copied him. Now if the Roman historically were fire worshippers and sun worshippers and they are the ones who's testimony is in the New Testament. Now historically romans are pagans and idol worshippers. So why do alot of the Christian holidays have pagan undertones and why does the lord and saviour of the Christians have the same characteristics of the Pagan Man Gods of Old. Why is there such an amazing similarity. I wil illustrate in two examples for you.
    Horus- Son of the Sun-God Osiris. born to the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave/manger, with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men. He was a child teacher in the Temple and was baptized when he was 30 years old. He was baptized by Anup the Baptizer. He had 12 disciples. He performed miracles and raised a man from the dead El-Azar-us, sounds alot like Lazarus. He walked on water and was transfigured on the Mount. He was crucified and buried in a tomb and resurrected in 3 days. He was called the Way,the Truth,the Light,the Messiah, Gods Annointed Son, The son of Man, the Good Shepherd, The lamb of God, The word etc. He was the Fisher and was associated with the lamb, lion and Fish.Horus personal epithet was "Iusa"" the everbecoming son" of" Ptah"- "the Father" and he was also called the KRST or Annoited one.

    Mithras - who was the God of Emperor Constantine the one who created the canons of Christianity at 325 a.d. Mithra was born on December 25. He was considered a great traveling teacher and master. He has 12 companions or disciples. He performed miracles He was buried in a tomb. After he 3 days he rose again. His resurrection was celebrated every year. He was called the Good shepard, the Way, The Saviour,The Messiah,etc. He was identified with the Lion and the Lamb. His sacred day was Sunday "The Lords Day" or the sun Gods Day. His pricipal festival was later to become Easter where he was resurrected and his religion had a Eucharist or Lord Supper.
    A study into astro theology will show you why these festival were held at those specific times a year. Dec. 25 and Easter there is something that one can see in the stars above which tells the whole story as it is portrayed.
    These are just a few examples of them I will go into the contradictions in my next post. Give me some feedback on what you think because these are amazing similarities that I believe many Christians are not aware of. The story of Jesus according to some scholars is based off of Sun worship or son worship. Now if you knew who Emperor Constantine and who the Gentiles were it would make more sense. Remember Jesus condemned them saying they are vipers snakes dogs the lowest, sin generation. Why would any Christian accept the testimony of these people. Paul and his students were all gentiles and pharisees or scribes and what did Jesus say about the pens of the scibes. These are some things I think you should look at and please give me your input on it. And I will give you some of the contradicitons as I said in my next post which will be later on today.
     
  2. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    The DSS was predominantly Hebrew and your ignorance of the Council of Nicea is embarrassing. Stop repeating foolishness - it simply makes Islam look dumb.
     
  3. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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    Hi Mujahid, Im sorry but I really don't have all the answers your looking for, Im not a Bible historian, I except what I believe by faith and for the more deeper queries that you have, will have to be answered by someone with a lot more experiance than Myself..

    The Holy Spirit didn't ride on a camel or a donkey..Your christian brethern are correct that is it Jesus who rode into Jerusalem on a Donkey..


    Please if you will check this out..

    One God

    (Deuteronomy 6:4) - "Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one!"

    (Isaiah 43:10) - ". . . Before Me [YHWH] there was no God formed, and there will be none after Me."

    (Isaiah 44:6) - ". . . there is no God besides Me."

    (Isaiah 44:8) - ". . . And you are My witnesses. Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock? I know of none."
    Many gods

    (Genesis 1:26) - "Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness . . ."

    (Genesis 3:22) - "And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil . . ."

    (Genesis 11:7) - "Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."

    (1 Corinthians 8:5) - "For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords")."

    (1 John 5:8) - "For there are three that bear witness, the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement."


    The Bible tells us that there is only one God in all existence (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8). However, it also mentions "other gods." For example there is Adrammelech and Anammelech (2 Kings 17:31), Asherah (1 Kings 18:19), Baal (Judges 3:1), Chemosh (Num. 21:29), Dagon (1 Sam. 5:2), Molech (Lev. 18:21; 20:2-5), etc. The Bible is not contradicting itself. When the Bible speaks of other gods it is speaking of false gods that have no true existence. Gal. 4:8 says, "Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods." See also, Isaiah 37:19 and Jeremiah 2:11. God tells us that he alone is the true God and that all of the invented gods of man do not exist except in their own minds. So, we can see that the Bible is not contradicting itself regarding how many gods there are in existence. There is only one.
    Note: in the verses in Genesis that have God saying "Let us make..., Let us go down . . . , etc." are clues to the Trinitarian nature of God. God is a Trinity of persons: a Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. There are not three Gods, but one. There are those who insist that the Trinity is polytheistic. But it is not. Trinitarians believe in a single being who is God.


    "Basic Christian Doctrine" by Matthew Slick, www.carm.org/basicdoc.htm.
     
  4. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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    Bible difficulties, or apparent Bible contradictions, exist. The opponents of Christianity often use them in their attempts to discredit Christianity. Sometimes these attacks undermine the faith of Christians who either don't understand the issues or don't have the resources to deal with them.
    Opponents of Christianity will cite what they consider a Bible contradiction or difficulty by comparing one verse to another (or more) that seems to disagree with the first. In doing this, several verses are often referenced as being contradictory or problematic. Therefore, to make this section of CARM easy to use, it is arranged by verse for easy lookup. Since many of the same "difficulties" deal with one verse in opposition to another or even several others, I have listed all the verses addressed in the same answer. This makes the initial list look larger than it really is. For example, how many animals did Noah bring into the ark? Genesis 6:19-20 says two while Gen. 7:2-3 mentions seven. Therefore, both verses are listed and both links point to the same answer.

    The Originals are Inspired, not the copies.

    What a lot of Christians don't know is that the autographs (original writings) are inspired, not the copies. The autographs are the original writings, the original documents penned by the biblical writers. The copies are copies of inspired documents. The copies are not themselves "inspired"; that is, they have no guarantee of being 100% textually pure. But don't worry, the Bible manuscripts are 98.5% textually pure and only are very small amount of information is in question because we have repetitive facts, instructions, and information found elsewhere in the Bible. Nevertheless, through the copying method over the years, various textual problems have arisen. Following is a list of the types of errors that have occurred in copying the manuscripts. I've used English as examples instead of going into the original languages for examples.

    Dittography - Writing twice what should have been written once.

    A good example would be writing "latter" instead of "later." "Latter" means nearest the end. "Later" means after something else.

    Fission - Improperly dividing one word into two words.

    Example: "nowhere" into "now here."

    Fusion - Combining the last letter of one word with the first letter of the next word.

    "Look it is there in the cabinet... or Look it is therein the cabinet."

    Haplography - Writing once what should have been written twice.

    A good example would be "later" instead of "latter." "Later" means after something else. "Latter" means nearest the end.

    Homophony - Writing a word with a different meaning for another word when both words have the exact same pronunciation.

    Meat and meet have the exact same sound but different meanings. Also, there and their and they're are another example.

    Metathesis - An improper exchange in the order of letters.

    Instead of writing "mast," someone writes "mats," or "cast" and cats."

    Does this mean we cannot trust the Bible?

    Does this mean that the Bible we hold in our hand is not inspired? Not at all. Inspiration comes from God and when He inspired the Bible, it was perfect. Our copies of the original documents are not perfect, but they are very close to being so. The critics often erringly assume that even the copies are supposed to be perfect. But when we point out that God never said the copies would be perfect, they then ask how can the Bible be trusted at all? Quite simply, it is redundant in its facts and information and the amount of material that has any variation at all is so minute compared to the whole Bible that the Bible is considered to be almost 100% accurately copied. Furthermore, the copyist errors present no problems doctrinally.
    Still, some will say that since there are, for example, copyist errors then we must throw out the entire Bible. But this argument is very week. Are we to throw out a book science text book because there is a misspelled word or two in it? Does this mean that the whole book cannot be trusted? Of course not. Furthermore, compared to other ancient documents, the New Testament, for example, has far more textual evidence in its favor than any other ancient writing. Please consider the chart below.

    Author When Written Earliest Copy Time Span No. of Copies
    Homer (Iliad) 900 BC 400 BC 500 years 643
    Ceasar (The Gallic Wars) 100 - 44 BC 900 AD 1,000 years 10
    Plato (Tetralogies) 427 - 347 BC 900 AD 1,200 years 7
    Aristotle 384 - 322 BC 1,100 AD 1,400 years 49
    Herodotus (History) 480 - 425 BC 900 AD 1,300 years 8
    Euripedes 480 - 406 BC 1,100 AD 1,500 years 9
    New Testament 50 - 90 A.D. 130 AD
    30 years 24,000
    This chart was adapted from charts in Evidence that Demands a Verdict, by Josh McDowell, 1979, pages 42 and 43.


    If the Bible cannot be trusted as being reliable because it has only a small percentage of copyist errors, then neither can the above documents be trusted that have far less textual support. In other rods, the critics, to be consistent, would have to reject the Iliad, The Gallic Wars, Plato's Tetralogies, Aristotle's works, Hoerodetus' history, and Euripedes' writings. Are the critics willing to disregard all those writings -- which are far less well preserved -- if they throw out the Bible as being reliable? They should if they are fair in how they apply their criticism. But, since basically no one discards those writings as being so bad they can't be trusted, why would anyone apply the double standard to the Bible . . . unless they have an agenda.
    We can see that the Bible is an ancient document that has withstood thousands of years of transmission with remarkable accuracy and clarity, far more so than the great works of old listed in the chart above. We can trust it to be what it says it is: the word of God.

    Basic Christian Doctrine" by Matthew Slick, www.carm.org/basicdoc.htm.

    This website can answer most if not all of your questions regarding error you see in the bible far better than I ever could...


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  5. Mujahid Mohammed

    Mujahid Mohammed Well-Known Member

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    forgive my ignorance what is dss. And I will post the information I have on the Coucil of Nicea for you soon and you can see for yourself. It is alot of information and if I were to post it all it would take up way too much post space I mean I would probably have to use up two pages of posts. So I am trying to condense it down to the key points and quotes from key individuals. Historically it did decide the fate of Christianity because there were two groups arguing and Constantine stepped in to settle the dispute but also to side with the one he had chosen as correct. But I will give you the information later as soon as I condense it down and I will give you books you can get to reference the information yourself.
     
  6. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Again, Mujahid Mohammed, it occurs to me that much of the confusion arises out of the term 'Canon', which has two distinct meanings:
    1. the list of documents accepted as scripture; and
    2. the set of rules/principles defining an organization.
    In Biblical Studies, the term is almost always used as in #1 above. You are using it differently, hence the confusion.
     
  7. Mujahid Mohammed

    Mujahid Mohammed Well-Known Member

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    But if the prophecy according to Christians in Isa 21:7 were to come true then the Holy Ghost would have had to ride a camel. because there were two riders and one rode a camel. who is the other rider if from what the Christians say about the prophecy is true because if Jesus was to send the Holy Ghost after him when did it ride a camel. the only prophet who ever rode a camel was Muhammed.


    So I am confused then why does every Trinitarian I know outside of this forum claim Jesus is God if God is one. Because they both can not be God one is dependeant on the other. It will make more sense when I tell the details of the Council of Nicea. The trinity are three persons, they are not three Gods but one. How are they one. Jesus says the father and I are one. But he also says the father is greater than I he also says he gets all of his power from the one who sent him. How is the one recieving strength the same as the one giving it. Jesus says they are not the same if they were the same he could do all God does. And he could not God has the power to do and is self sufficient and self existing. Jesus has none of these attributes that are attributed only to God. I am very soon going to start a post and I would love to hear your comments and explanations on certain issues. It will be to first go over the council of Nicea and some of the contradictions in the bible and the quran if you have a list of them you would like to go over that would be great just send them to me. I will also discuss the Gospel of Barnabus and possibly the Shepard of Hermas two books written very shortly after Jesus left this earth( within 50 years or less depending on when Jesus was born) It will be within the next couple of days I hope if Allah gives me the time to do it. After I post this it will insha Allah become more clear and maybe give you some questions of your own.
     
  8. Mujahid Mohammed

    Mujahid Mohammed Well-Known Member

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    No, because at the council of Nicea both rules were implemented they decided upon a list of scriptures that would be put into law as the religion of a organization. And certain edicts concerning the scriptures were implemented and punishments carried out by the governing body and thanks for the clarificaition on the Dead Sea Scrolls. And my ignorance of the Council of Nicea is due to information given to me by these particular scholars and writers whose books you will have a list of. I will as I said earlier start a post after I condense down the information from these books I have and agian I will list them for you so you can read them yourself if you like.
     
  9. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    You would then do well to reconsider your list of "scholars", since the Council of Nicea had nothing whatsoever to do with ruling on Bible Canaon.
     
  10. Mujahid Mohammed

    Mujahid Mohammed Well-Known Member

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    Just be patient Jawhawker and you can read it yourself for there are quotes from many recognized individuals. Do not be so quick to criticize their opinion when you have not even heard them. So please be patient my friend and when I post it go to town because I would love to hear your comments from your resources so we can compare. I am a student not a debater. I want to learn this is not a fight to see who is right and who is wrong lets look at what they all have to say and then together we can try to make sense out of it all. But again please be patient I will list the post very soon I am going to right now go through all my book and highlight what they say and post them for everyone to comment and pass thoughts around. Salam.
     
  11. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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    Hi Mujahid..Isa 21:7 , this might clear things up for you..I found it on line.

    In Isa 21:7, is the rider on "donkeys" Jesus, and the rider on "camels" Mohammed?

    A: No. Three points to consider in the answer.

    1. These were messengers at that time coming to report that Babylon has fallen. The only special significance is that perhaps the camel riders might be scouts, donkey riders might be civilians, and charioteers might be military men.

    2. The evil Midianites rode on camels too, but that is just as irrelevant as talking about Mohammed here.

    3. Finally, there were camel riders (plural), so even if one was Mohammed, this would mean that another camel rider would be coming after him.

    Here is something else that might answer your questions on the diety of Jesus.

    If Jesus is God, then why did He say
    the Father was greater than He?

    "You heard that I said to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I,'" (John 14:23).

    Jesus said the Father was greater than He not because Jesus is not God, but because Jesus was also a man and as a man he was in a lower position. He was ". . . made for a little while lower than the angels . . ." (Heb. 2:9). Also in Phil. 2:5-8, it says that Jesus "emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men . . ."
    Jesus has two natures. Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was merely acknowledging the fact that He was also a man. Jesus is both God and man. As a man, he was in a lesser position than the Father. He had added to Himself human nature (Col. 2:9). He became a man to die for people.
    A comparison can be found in the marriage relationship. Biblically, a husband is greater in position and authority than his wife. But, he is no different in nature and he is not better than she. They share the same nature, being human, and they work together by love.
    So, Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was simply acknowledging that He was also a man and as a man, he was subject to the laws of God so that He might redeem those who were under the law; namely, sinners (Gal. 4:4-5).

    For further reading please see the two natures of Jesus.

    SCRIPTURES QUOTED:

    Phil. 2:5-8, "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."
    Col. 2:9, "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,"
    Gal. 4:4-5, "But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, in order that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons."
    Heb. 2:9, "But we do see Him who has been made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone."

    "Basic Christian Doctrine" by Matthew Slick, www.carm.org/basicdoc.htm.







    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  12. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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    Hi Mujahid, I found this on line that I thought would be interesting..


    This is the epilog of the Book by William Campbell.
    {Footnotes I inserted in the text at the place where they belong}

    EPILOGUE

    Until this moment I have been presenting proofs that the Gospel
    of Barnabas is a false Gospel: proofs which are the same for a
    Muslim or a Christian and have nothing to do with the religious
    content. Naturally, I hope that these 40 or 50 reasons and
    proofs will convince all that this document cannot be the true
    injil, the true Gospel of Christ, and is useless in Muslim-
    Christian discussions.

    Now I wish to present three serious and tremendous difficulties,
    difficulties which make it almost impossible for any Christian to
    take the Gospel of Barnabas seriously, even without the above
    findings. These three reasons are:

    1. The lack of any mention of John the
    Baptist, called Yahya Ibn Zakariya in the Qur'an.

    2. The statement that Jewish sacrifices did not come from God
    even though almost every one of the New Testament writers
    mentions them for a total of hundreds of times - and the
    Qur'an mentions them at least three times.

    3. The fact that pseudo-Barnabas calls himself one of the
    Twelve Apostles of Jesus, and Thomas is omitted from the
    list of apostles - a statement which disagrees with all four
    of the Gospel writers.


    No Mention of John the Baptist Yahya Ibn Zakariya

    Yahya Ibn Zakariya is mentioned five times in the Qur'an. The
    first passage is found in the Sura Al-Anbiya'(The Prophets)
    21:89-90, from the middle Meccan period, where he is praised by
    God, along with his father Zakariya and his mother, for their
    good works and their revelence. The second passage in the Sura
    Al-An`am (The Cattle) 6:8S, from the late Meccan period,
    mentions him along with Jesus as being "in the ranks of the
    righteous". Thirdly in the Sura Maryam (Mary) 19:1-1S, 7 AH,
    Yahya is mentioned twice. In the second reference he is
    commanded, "O Yahya! take hold of the Book
    {"The Book" must refer to the Torah and the Zabur as
    being available to him without having been changed.}
    with might" and he is described as having wisdom even as a youth
    and piety and purity.

    The last passage which mentions Sidna Yahya is found in the
    Sura Ali-`Imran (The Family of 'Imran) 3:38-41,45 from 2 or 3
    AH. This is a very important passage and we must consider it at
    some length because it says quite clearly that Yahya was a
    prophet and prophesied that Jesus would come. Verse 39 reads,

    While he (Zakariya) was standing in prayer in the chamber,
    the angels called upon him, 'God gives thee glad tidings of
    Yahya, witnessing the truth of a word from God, and (Yahya
    will be) noble, chaste and a prophet of the company of the
    righteous.'

    And then in verse 45 we read about this word:

    Behold the angels said, 'O Mary! God giveth them glad tidings
    of a Word from Him: his name will be the Messiah, Jesus the
    son of Mary, held in honour in this world and in the Hereafter,
    and of those nearest to God.'

    There is no doubt here that Yahya is to come witnessing the truth
    of a Word from God whose name will be Christ Jesus, the son of
    Mary. And this account agrees in all major details with the account
    of Yahya's birth in the Gospel of Jesus Christ according to Luke,
    Chapter 1.

    To show the importance of Yahya in relation to Jesus in another
    way, we find that Yahya is mentioned in three of the 11 Suras
    where Jesus is mentioned. This represents 27 percent of the time.

    According to the Gospel as we have it in Matthew, Mark,
    Luke, and John, there was a man sent from God named John the
    Baptist (Yahya). He preached repentance and as a sign of this
    repentance he had the people stoop down and cover themselves
    with the waters of the Jordan river. This was a sign of leaving
    their sins and turning to God and was called baptism. From this
    sign he was called John the Baptist. He did no miracles but he
    prophesied many times that Jesus, the Word of God, would come
    and baptize with the Holy Spirit. His great importance in the
    Gospel can be understood by the fact that in the Canonical
    Gospels plus the Acts of the Apostles, John the Baptist is
    mentioned 92 times, in 32 out of 117 chapters where Jesus is
    mentioned. This is also 27 percent of the time just like the
    Qur'an.

    He is also mentioned in secular history by the Jewish historian
    Josephus who wrote around 90 AD. In his long work called the
    Antiquities of the Jews we read:

    Now, some of the Jews thought that the destruction of Herod's
    army came from God and that very justly, as a punishment for
    what he did against John, that was called the Baptist. For Herod
    slew him, who was a good man and commanded the Jews to exercise
    virtue, both as to righteousness towards one another, and piety
    towards God, and so to come to baptism. Herod, who feared lest
    the great influence John had over the people might put it into
    his power and inclination to raise rebellion, thought it best,
    by putting him to death, to prevent any mischief he might cause.
    {Flavius Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, Book xviii, Chap. 5}

    It may be questioned however what this has to do with anything.
    To leave a person out has no meaning at all. And with that response
    I certainly agree. But when we look at the text of the pseudo-Gospel
    of Barnabas and compare it with the text of the Canonical Gospels,
    we discover that although John the Baptist (Yahya) is not mentioned,
    he wasn't left out at all because his words are still there. Only
    this time they are placed in the mouth of Jesus who is made to say
    exactly the same words about Muhammad.
    Let us look at the following comparisons:

    Gospel According to Luke, Gospel of Barnabas Chapter 100
    Chapter 3, verses 8 and 9

    John said, "Produce fruit in Jesus says to his disciples,
    keeping with repentance ... "go through all the region ...
    The ax is already at the root preaching penitence: because
    trees, and every tree that the axe is laid nigh unto the
    does not produce good fruit tree, to cut it down."
    will be cut down."

    The Italian text for the following passage from the pseudo-Gospel
    of Barnabas is found in the photograph of page 44r seen in Figure 9.

    Gospel According to John, Gospel of Barnabas, Chapter 42
    Chapter 1, verses 19 to 30

    Now this was John's They (the priests) sent the
    testimony when the Jews of levites and some of the
    Jerusalem sent priests and scribes to question him,
    levites to ask him who he saying: "Who are thou?" Jesus
    was. He ... confessed freely, confessed and said the truth:
    "I am not the Christ."* "I'm not the Messiah."*

    They asked him, "Then who They said: "Art thou Elijah or
    are you? Are you Elijah?" Jeremiah,

    He said, "I am not."

    "Are you the Prophet?" or any of the ancient
    prophets?

    He (John) answered,"No". Jesus answered: "No".

    Finally they said, "Who are Then said they: "Who art
    you? Give us an answer to thou? Say, in order that we
    take back to those who sent may give testimony to those
    us. What do you say about who sent us."
    yourself?"

    John replied in the words of Then said Jesus: "I am a
    Isaiah the prophet, "I am the voice that cries through all
    voice of one calling in the Judea, and cries: 'Prepare ye
    desert, 'Make straight the the way for the messenger of
    way for the Lord."' the Lord,; even as it is
    written in Isaiah".

    Now some Pharisees who had They said: "If thou be not the
    been sent questioned him, Messiah* nor Elijah, or any
    "Why then do you baptize if prophet, wherefore dost thou
    you are not the Christ,* nor preach new doctrine, and
    Elijah, nor the prophet?" make thyself of more value
    than the Messiah*?"


    "I baptize with water," John Jesus answered: "The
    replied, "but among you miracles which God worketh
    stands one you do not know. by my hands show that I
    He is the one who comes speak that which God wills;
    after me, the thongs of whose nor indeed do I make myself
    sandals I am not worthy to to be accounted as him of
    untie " The next day John whom ye speak. For I am not
    saw Jesus coming toward him worthy to unloose the ties of
    and said, "Behold the Lamb the hosen or the latchets of
    of God, who takes away the the shoes of the Messenger of
    sin of the world! This is the God whom ye call 'Messiah,'
    one I meant when I said, A who was made before me,
    man who comes after me has and shall come after me ...
    surpassed me because he was
    before me."

    {* Here the Greek "Christ" clearly equals the Italian "mesia" or
    "messia" which can be seen in lines 3 and 12 of Figure 9.}

    We see from these comparisons that not only has the author of
    Barnabas contradicted the Qur'an in calling Muhammad the Messiah,
    but he has copied the Canonical Gospels practically word for word.
    The only change he has made is to place the words of John the
    Baptist in the mouth of Jesus, making Jesus call Muhammad the
    Messiah; and eliminating Yahya from the book entirely.
     
  13. Mujahid Mohammed

    Mujahid Mohammed Well-Known Member

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    That was just the first verse revealed he did not get all of Qur'an in the cave at that instance it was over the course of 23 years. And similar to Jesus the companions of Muhammed witnessed the revealing of others ayats of Qur'an. Yes I agree Jesus did have many eye witnesses. But the testimony given in the bible is not from his disciples or family or close followers it is from Paul and other Gentiles who Jesus says are not very nice people according to the scriptures and some of which never met Jesus.
     
  14. Mujahid Mohammed

    Mujahid Mohammed Well-Known Member

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    Zacharias had the holy spirit and so did the disicples and this is all before he left.
     
  15. Mujahid Mohammed

    Mujahid Mohammed Well-Known Member

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    Please give me Jesus's words on this where did he say clearly that his message is for the Gentiles, That they have any kind of savation through him. Where did he preach his message to the Gentiles.

    Look up Jesse. Who is this person according to the Christian scholars you are speaking of. I am told in the Scrollier Biblical Encyclopedia that this verse is referring to Ishmael as Jesse. The root of Ishmael is the one who will rule over the Gentiles and it is in his root is their hope. Unfortunately Jesus's lineage came on the side of Issac not Ishmael. But if Jesus message was only meant for the jews according to his testimony and that the hope for the Gentiles in in bloodline of Ishmael then the only prophet in that bloodline is Muhammed(pbuh)

    Again I must ask why do you accept the testimony of people Jesus said according to the scriptures is evil and give me the testimony of Jesus which supports the things mentioned at the beginning of your post.
     
  16. Mujahid Mohammed

    Mujahid Mohammed Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you that there is only one god.
    Hebrew is the same as arabic when it comes to the use of pluracy. When it says "let us make" it is the pluracy of respect which is used and not be confused with a number.


    "Basic Christian Doctrine" by Matthew Slick, www.carm.org/basicdoc.htm.[/QUOTE]
     
  17. Mujahid Mohammed

    Mujahid Mohammed Well-Known Member

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    On your - 1st point - keep in mind this is a prophecy about prophets and not just common people otherwise why would they be included in the prophecy. And why would Isaiaih and Christian scholars say this is about Jesus and just regular people and why would he mention people who do not matter. Your - 2nd point - again why would you include evil people in a prophecy about the coming prophets of God. And talking about Mohammed is never irrelevant because he is the only one out of the people who rode camels to say he is a prophet teaching in the original theologies of Abraham and all the other righteous prophets. Your - 3rd point donkeys - is also in plural so can the same be said for Jesus.

    Correct me if I am wrong but didn't God tell all things in creation to bow before Adam. Now if the angels bowed to Adam and Jesus was made a little lower than the angels wouldn't he be less in terms of heirarchy than Adam. I do not think this but this is what the verse states.


    These scriptures are not in Red ink in my bible so they are not according to one of my bibles Jesus words. Give me the scriptures where Jesus says these things and preaches these dogmas to his disciples or congregtion.
     
  18. Mujahid Mohammed

    Mujahid Mohammed Well-Known Member

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    First thing you must understand is when you read it. It is just dealing with Jesus and his ministry from one of his companions perspective. And I am not sure as to what the significance of Jewish sacrifices has in defining if this book is authentic or not please explain this point better for me. And since the bible cannot agree on many aspects of what has been said what has happened because of the many "scribal errors " or contradictions. It is hard to look at the bible as a legitimate source of truth when the bible itself does not agree with itself in many areas. If the Christians scholars say there are many errors in it how can I use a book that has so many mistakes in it as a reference point to find the truth.



    Muhammad (saw) is the Messiah or Rasul or Messenger. So was Jesus. So was Moses. So was Abraham. they were all Messengers each given a book to give to their people from God. And you must remember that the Gospel of Barnabus came before the Canonical Gospels in terms of time. The Canon did not get written down till later. And the Gospel Christians use today is not the same as what they had in the beginning. The Vulgate is not the same as the KJV the original KJV is not the same as NRSV, or the NIV, or the NLV, KJV they had in the past is not the same as the one people have today. Jesus is the Messiah or Messenger and so is Muhammed that is what he meant when he said he would sent another Comforter or Parakletos in Greek. But Jesus was only sent to the Jews according to his testimony. Matthew 10:5-6 and Matthew 15:22-26
     
  19. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
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    :clap
     
  20. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays Well-Known Member

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    This is from the Injeel:
    "7:2 And a certain centurion's servant, who was dear unto him, was sick, and ready to die.
    7:3 And when he heard of Jesus, he sent unto him the elders of the Jews, beseeching him that he would come and heal his servant.
    7:4 And when they came to Jesus, they besought him instantly, saying, That he was worthy for whom he should do this: 7:5 For he loveth our nation, and he hath built us a synagogue.
    7:6 Then Jesus went with them. And when he was now not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to him, saying unto him, Lord, trouble not thyself: for I am not worthy that thou shouldest enter under my roof: 7:7 Wherefore neither thought I myself worthy to come unto thee: but say in a word, and my servant shall be healed.
    7:8 For I also am a man set under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
    7:9 When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
    7:10 And they that were sent, returning to the house, found the servant whole that had been sick.
    (King James Bible, Luke)

    Regards,
    Scott
     
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