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Modern Churches not operating gifts of the Spirit.

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by 74x12, Oct 24, 2018.

  1. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    It's clear that in 1 Corinthians 12 when Christians assemble for church time together they should be operating in the gifts of the Spirit so they can minister to one another's needs. Not from themselves, but through the holy Spirit they should be ministering to one another's needs. So if someone needs healing then the gift of healing can be used. Or if someone needs a prophecy etc. You can read about the gifts for yourself in 1 Cor. 12. This thread is about how modern churches are sometimes missing out.

    BTW I still believe all this is important. Preaching, singing, altar call, giving offering etc. But the gifts of the Spirit need to be used more often.

    The question is how should church service be structured so that when the body comes together they can operate in the gifts of the Spirit. Not just one or two people with a microphone doing all the work. But the whole body operating the gifts as they should operate as God has given each person.
     
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  2. Axe Elf

    Axe Elf Prophet

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    I think us prophets have it the hardest. Nobody minds being healed, but everybody resents the idea that they don't understand the divine will as well as someone else.
     
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  3. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    There are many "spirits", but we are in the "end times", and the "unclean spirit" of the "false prophet" (Revelation 16:13-16) seems well represented. Oh, by the way, 1 Corinthians 12 was supposedly written by the false prophet. If you need healing, I would suggest to repent, confess your sins, sin no more, and find someone righteous to pray for you (James 5:16). If you don't want to "receive of her plagues" (Revelation 18:4), I would recommend "coming out of her", the "her" being the "daughter of Babylon", your "modern churches".
     
  4. Axe Elf

    Axe Elf Prophet

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    That's what they told us in health class, too.
     
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  5. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Health class and military training recommended that you do not enter in her in the first place. She is apparently unclean.
     
  6. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    Only gift I see is the passing of the plate.
     
  7. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    This matter of the gifts of the Spirit(the holy Spirit) does not concern you. It seems to me you take every opportunity to speak against the things of God as revealed to us by our brother Paul; who is with the Lord.
     
  8. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Paul is supposedly in some grave outside of Rome. Now, on the other hand, the demon spirit of the "false prophet" is on earth leading the kings of the "whole world" (Revelation 16:13-16). Paul, as the predominate "tare" seed planter, was under the protection of Yeshua until the "end of the age" per (Matthew 13:28-30), but is now subject to being gathered up and burned along with his brother tares (Matthew 13:39-42).
     
  9. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    That is known as eating the fat of the sheep (Ezekiel 34:1-6) & (Zechariah 11:16).
     
  10. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    I suggest you follow Gamaliel's advice.

    Gamaliel:
    "And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
    But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God."
     
  11. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    But then again, the tares were given the protection of Yeshua, until the "end of the age" (Matthew 13:28-30 & 40). The "enemy", the "tares", were given free reign to help the ruler of the world, until the ruler/kings of the world were crushed all at the same time (Daniel 2:35), all being led by the demon spirit of the false prophet and the beast (Revelation 16:13-16). And according to Revelation, Babylon the Great, the mother of the harlots, the "Christian" church numbered among them, will be as if tossed into the sea (Revelation 18:21). But feel free to not only let "these men" alone, but to join them in their rush to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13). Keep in mind, we are at the "end of the age".
     
  12. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    This is not wisdom. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

    I'll pray for you.
     
  13. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    New American Standard Bible John 9:31
    "We know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is God-fearing and does His will, He hears him.

    Proverbs 28:9
    Whoever turns his ear away from hearing the law, even his prayer is detestable.
     
  14. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough to accuse me. I undoubtedly deserve it. Although God has heard me before. But what will you say to God; seeing Peter and Paul with Him?
     
  15. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    But what makes you believe they're not?
     
  16. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    I don't know, maybe the Pope's failed efforts to cast out demons. But since he recognized the evil within himself, he did supposedly go out and designate 500 more cast out demon priest.
     
  17. Nova2216

    Nova2216 Active Member

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    #1. Miracles were never for everyone. Miracles were never just to heal people. Miracles were done for "a specific reason" in the first century. They proved the "message" and the "person speaking" was approved of God (Mk16:20) (Heb.2:3,4).

    3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? (Heb.2:3).

    They had no bibles then (NT). If Paul walked up to you in the first century and taught you the gospel you would know he was teaching truth b/c of the miracles he could do. Nichodemus realized this in (Jn 3:1-5). - we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

    #2. The first century apostles were "promised" Holy Spirit Baptism from Christ Himself (Jn 14:26) (Jn 16:13) (Mt.10). It was never promised to "all men".

    We learn how men (other than the apostles) received the ability to do miracles in (Ac.8:18,19). It was only by the "laying on of the apostles hands". It had to be the 1st century apostles hands. There are no apostles today. This is the reason no miracles can be done today. (1Cor.13:8-10) (Eph.4:11-13).

    People see a light shining on someone laying their hands upon another person and they "think" a miracles was done.

    They were deceived. No miracle was done.

    This is one of those times the truth is difficult to deliver.

    We need to study our bible instead of getting upset at someone for telling us the truth.

    Thanks
     
  18. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Yet, God gives spiritual gifts to everyone who receives the Spirit. That includes working miracles and miracles are for everyone who has faith. (1 Corinthians 12)
    That's correct. Apostles did indeed have special miracles and signs but that doesn't mean anyone can't have faith to receive from God. The apostles had faith so can I.
    That's right, You can't do miracles unless God is with you.
    Acts 2:38-39. The promise is unto all who are afar off and everyone who is "called" of God. "Even as many as the Lord our God shall call."

    It's because people don't obtain the promises of God that they miss out. They must obtain it to receive it. (Hebrews 6:15, Hebrews 11:33)

    So many indeed are "called" but few are chosen. As Jesus said. So to be chosen you obtain the promise.
    I think you're mistaken because as it says in 2 Timothy 3:5 some deny the power of God. The power of God is not gone. God does not stop doing miracles nor does He stop hearing prayer.

    No, apostles don't have to lay their hands on someone for them to have faith. Jesus said if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed you can say to the mountain be removed and it will obey you and Jesus said nothing shall be impossible.

    And by the way ... God can easily make new apostles whenever He wants.
    Well, there is no denying that shysters fake things and I believe that probably soon the Antichrist or false prophet will be faking miracles on live tv.
    Look, miracles are for today. I know the world is jaded because of fraud and lies. But Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today and forever. As the scripture says. He doesn't change. The only thing that can stop Him now is what stopped Him back then.

    Mark 6:5-6
    And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.
    And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.
     
    #18 74x12, May 2, 2020
    Last edited: May 2, 2020
  19. Nova2216

    Nova2216 Active Member

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    "No, apostles don't have to lay their hands on someone for them to have faith."

    I did not make the statement above. You misunderstood what I posted. (Ac.8:18,19)


    Question - When does one receive the gifts?

    At belief

    At repentance

    At confession

    At baptism

    Or is it according to (Ac.8:18,19) - "when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given"


    It seems you are rejecting truth at most every turn.(Jn 12:48)
     
  20. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    My point is that faith is all a Christian needs to do miracles.

    In Acts 8:18-19 the Samaritans were receiving the gift of the holy Spirit for the first time. That is why it required Peter's presence because he was given the keys to heaven. (Matthew 16:18-19) So you'll notice Peter was present when the Jews received the Spirit on the day of Pentecost. Then when the Samaritans next received the Spirit in Acts 8 and finally he was present when the gentiles received the Spirit in Acts 10:44. So that is why the Samaritans could not receive the Spirit by the evangelist Phillip. Peter had to come first to loose what was from heaven for the Samaritans. But later on, I doubt Phillip had that problem anymore.

    Because now people from any nation can receive the holy Spirit with God's help.
    All those are good times to receive gifts but not necessarily the only time. When God gives the gift is when you receive the gift.
    I'm not rejecting truth. It seems you have no answers for the various verses I already brought up. Jesus claimed whoever believes in Him will do even greater works than He did. (John 14:12)
     
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