Missouri teacher who displayed Pride Flag resigns after parent complains

[epronovost]

I wasn't saying there's no gay Republicans. I'm saying that a teacher putting a Trump or Biden flag up their class would be just as inappropriate as putting up a gay pride flag, or a straight pride flag, as I mentioned before. None of them belong.

You have failed to demonstrate why though. I understand your point, I simply think you are putting you are deeply biased; presenting a flag of a movement openly supported by the US government in all things (by both Party) as a clearly partisan move. There is no place in a school for homophobia or transphobia or any other associated bigotry of the same style just as there is no place for it in any other public building. Placing a flag to make it crystal clear is only a way to express that reality.

 

[Rival]

Not about that, about the pride flag movement being

Everybody knows the current movement is a coalition of interests that used to be separated and not always in agreement on everything. There always was "uncle Tom" like people in any minority and there always were people in coalition only interested in "their equality" and not that of all people like the infamous "white feather feminists" which were deeply racists and opposed to black women's rights. The gay pride flag isn't used by those smaller group of extremists. Lesbian separatists for example still hold to the Labrys flag.

I'm not sure what your trying arguing here?

Are you saying that gay folks who don't support SSM are somehow Uncle Toms? Not sure where you're going with this.

So you appear to be saying, if I'm reading you right, that the LGBT movement is the right kind of gays who are left leaning? And any self-respecting gay dude would be pro-SSM?

This is kind exactly the problem. The LGBT movement is a left leaning movement that supports SSM, which is an inherently left-wing position.

Whatever you you believe, it's political and has no place in a classroom.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It's not a partisan flag. There is a homosexual Republican Caucus. Republican politicians have supported gay rights and equality of gay people is enshrined in the constitution and upheld in court opinions of all level. It would be like saying that pictures of suffragists or famous members of the Civic Right movement like MLK are political.

Yep, nothing political about it. Now most fliers of the Pride Flag may be liberal but that does not mean that they all are. Here is an example from the last Presidential election:

LGBT rights: Donald Trump's inclusive record good for Republican Party

It appears that some people want things both ways again. There are conservative LGBQT people, they may be a minority but they exist.

 

[We Never Know]

Missouri Teacher Who Displayed Pride Flag Resigns After Parent Complains (insider.com)







Wow, it's almost like the whole country is going backwards.

The teacher filed a civil rights complaint with the U.S. Department of Education.

In my opinion the only flags that should be in a class room are the state and country flags.
Pride flags, religious flags, blm flags, etc only focus on certain groups and there will always be someone offended.

 

[epronovost]

Support doesn't need to come from silly flags. It comes from people actually supporting them. Putting a flag up in a classroom isn't going to suddenly change a religious extremist's mind about the issue. It hasn't changed mine and it won't change theirs.

Support will come from people and it will be made clear by the usage of known and clear symbols like silly flags. It's not about "convincing" people. It's about supporting and reassuring students that if religious extremist don't keep their bigotry to the privacy of their mind, they will be dealt with.

That's also why schools often have civic flags or even boards with extracts from the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. It's to send the clear message that those things are important and if they are not respected; there will be trouble.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You have failed to demonstrate why though. I understand your point, I simply think you are putting you are deeply biased; presenting a flag of a movement openly supported by the US government in all things (by both Party) as a clearly partisan move. There is no place in a school for homophobia or transphobia or any other associated bigotry of the same style just as there is no place for it in any other public building. Placing a flag to make it crystal clear is only a way to express that reality.

Religious people who are opposed to homosexuality or transgenderism have the rights to their views and they also have the right to not have those things pushed on their children at taxpayer funded schools. It doesn't even have to be religous. They are citizens of this country with the same rights as the LGBTs to their beliefs and to raise their kids as they see fit. No one should be bullying, harassing or harming anyone over anything and that includes students with more conservative views. If a student wants to put a rainbow patch on their bookbag or the school has a gay-straight alliance that meets during off-hours, that's their perogative, but a teacher has no business pushing that on the students.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm not sure what your trying arguing here?

Are you saying that gay folks who don't support SSM are somehow Uncle Toms? Not sure where you're going with this.

So you appear to be saying, if I'm reading you right, that the LGBT movement is the right kind of gays who are left leaning? And any self-respecting gay dude would be pro-SSM?

This is kind exactly the problem. The LGBT movement is a left leaning movement that supports SSM, which is an inherently left-wing position.

Whatever you you believe, it's political and has no place in a classroom.

What people should support is marriage equality. You are almost begging the question when you try to refer to it as single sex marriage. It should be an option. I am sure that there are a few extremists that for some odd reason do not like the idea of gay people being able to marry the one that they love. They cannot properly justify that position. If a gay person is against marriage equality there is a simple solution for him or her. Don't get married. If a straight person does not like the idea of marriage equality they do not have to marry a person of the same sex.

I simply cannot see the logic of how limiting the equal rights of others is not a good thing.

 

[Rival]

Support will come from people and it will be made clear by the usage of known and clear symbols. It's not about "convincing" people. It's about supporting and reassuring students that if religious extremist don't keep their bigotry to the privacy of their mind, they will be dealt with.

I didn't need any symbols to make myself feel accepted as a bisexual. I didn't need any symbols to be accepted as a kinkster. We don't need symbols. We need people to leave people to their business. Dumping a boatload of pride flags and Elton John CDs in Afghanistan won't make the Taliban suddenly rethink homosexuality. Nothing will. It won't make me rethink my religious position either.

 

[Stevicus]

In my opinion the only flags that should be in a class room are the state and country flags.
Pride flags, religious flags, blm flags, etc only focus on certain groups and there will always be someone offended.

I think I might fly the flag of the United Federation of Planets.

Or maybe the white flag of surrender.

 

[epronovost]

I didn't need any symbols to make myself feel accepted as a bisexual. I didn't need any symbols to be accepted as a kinkster. We don't need symbols. We need people to leave people to their business. Dumping a boatload of pride flags and Elton John CDs in Afghanistan won't make the Taliban suddenly rethink homosexuality. Nothing will. It won't make me rethink my religious position either.

That's simply an obvious fallacy and you should know better if only because someone has says the exact opposite on this very thread. Again, it's not about convincing you to support the LBGTQ. It's about scaring you if you try to act in any bigoted way toward one of their member or spread hate amongst your peers thus reassuring people at the same time.

 

[Rival]

What people should support is marriage equality. You are almost begging the question when you try to refer to it as single sex marriage. It should be an option. I am sure that there are a few extremists that for some odd reason do not like the idea of gay people being able to marry the one that they love. They cannot properly justify that position. If a gay person is against marriage equality there is a simple solution for him or her. Don't get married. If a straight person does not like the idea of marriage equality they do not have to marry a person of the same sex.

I simply cannot see the logic of how limiting the equal rights of others is not a good thing.

It doesn't matter that you don't understand it. That's not the point here. The point is that some people straight up don't like it and don't support it, often due to religious positions, and do not want their children to be exposed to such blatant support. They have that right, no matter what one thinks of their position. The best way of dealing with both sides is to make schools apolitical and have no symbols at all.

 

[Rival]

It's about scaring if you try to act in any bigoted way toward one of their member or spread hate amongst your peers.

Yeah believe it or not, I have a right to scream 'I don't believe in gay marriage' at the top of my lungs whenever and wherever I want. Scaring me into not doing that is not any fairer than me scaring people into not screaming they support gay marriage. We should both have the right to say what we like. So you've basically admitted to wanting to indoctrinate people into left-wing positions.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Religious people who are opposed to homosexuality or transgenderism have the rights to their views and they also have the right to not have those things pushed on their children at taxpayer funded schools. It doesn't even have to be religous. They are citizens of this country with the same rights as the LGBTs to their beliefs and to raise their kids as they see fit. No one should be bullying, harassing or harming anyone over anything. If a student wants to put a rainbow patch on their bookbag or the school has a gay-straight alliance that meets during off-hours, that's their perogative, but a teacher has no business pushing that on the students.

They have rights to have their views heard. That is correct. But you are working on a bit of an old paradigm. Children are not property. When it comes to rights they have them too, though a bit more limited than the rights of adults. There are aspects of their education that a parent does not have the right to interfere with. For example a person in the Alabama might think that chattel slavery of those of African descent is a good thing. He may think that he should have the right to own slaves . He will not have much luck in telling a school that they have to respect his "rights".

 

[epronovost]

Yeah believe it or not, I have a right to scream 'I don't believe in gay marriage' at the top of my lungs whenever and wherever I want. Scaring me into not doing that is not any fairer than me scaring people into not screaming they support gay marriage. We should both have the right to say what we like. So you've basically admitted to wanting to indoctrinate people into left-wing positions.

No you don't. You don' have the right to intimidate or discriminate or insult your peers in a school. If you do that, you open yourself to sanction. Schools don't tolerate bullying like many areas of society do. You can insult people in the street whenever you want, but you certainly can't do that in a school. The flag is there to remind them of that fact, because some might forget that LGBTQ people's rights are not up for debate any longer.

 

[Rival]

No you don't. You don' have the right to intimidate or discriminate or insult your peers in a school. If you do that, you open yourself to sanction. Schools don't tolerate bullying like many areas of society don't. The flag is there to remind them of that fact, because some might forget that LGBTQ people's rights are not up for debate any longer.

It's not bullying, it's a legitimate political position that even some gays hold. It's perfectly legal free speech.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yeah believe it or not, I have a right to scream 'I don't believe in gay marriage' at the top of my lungs whenever and wherever I want. Scaring me into not doing that is not any fairer than me scaring people into not screaming they support gay marriage. We should both have the right to say what we like. So you've basically admitted to wanting to indoctrinate people into left-wing positions.

Yes, you have that right. You do not have the right to try to order your school to change how they teach their classes to accommodate you. Where is the attempt to indoctrinate others into a "left-wing position"?

 

[Wildswanderer]

You were the one that made the comment about "Putting one's sexuality on display". And you actually made a bad assumption. Putting a picture of one's spouse, whether opposite sex or same sex, is putting one's sexuality on display. Putting up a Pride Flag is not. It is just a flag. I am straight and could fly a Pride Flag. That would no more turn me into a homosexual than the teacher could teach kids to be homosexuals. It only shows an inclusive attitude and support for the rights of all. What is wrong with that?

The clue is in the name." Gay pride."
What does that mean?
Proud to be a homo.
Again, answer the question.
Are other teachers putting up straight pride flags?

 

[Rival]

Yes, you have that right. You do not have the right to try to order your school to change how they teach their classes to accommodate you. Where is the attempt to indoctrinate others into a "left-wing position"?

In trying to scare certain groups into not saying what they honestly believe, usually as a religious position. Not being able to say you don't support SSM is being cowed by the left, which is where SSM support comes from. It's a traditionally left-wing position. Each student should be able to freely voice his views and hushing certain views is partisan, which is what you apparently want to do.

 

[epronovost]

It's not bullying, it's a legitimate political position that even some gays hold. It's perfectly legal free speech.

No, it's an appeal to discrimination. That in and on itself is no longer considered a legitimate political position, having been declared unconstitutional and would be considered as a form of bullying or subversion to insist that it's not. It's insulting toward members of the LGBTQ and is not tolerated in a school context nor in court for that matter. If that's what you believe, keep it to yourself or in other venues than schools or courtroom.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It doesn't matter that you don't understand it. That's not the point here. The point is that some people straight up don't like it and don't support it, often due to religious positions, and do not want their children to be exposed to such blatant support. They have that right, no matter what one thinks of their position. The best way of dealing with both sides is to make schools apolitical and have no symbols at all.

I do understand it. And the fact is that no one has been able to come up with a rational reason to oppose that right for others. Once again, if a person does not like that concept they do not have to get married. I may not like veganism, but I do not have the right to make others eat meat.

As to religious reasons, move to a country where only your own religion is allowed. Expecting others to live under one's own religious beliefs is as evil as others ordering that person to live under theirs. Once again, no one is forcing people to get married. There is no rational reason to oppose that freedom in a country with freedom of religion.