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Misconceptions

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Human cannot create an Atman/soul/Spirit. Can they, please?

Regards
________________
[17:86]وَ یَسۡـَٔلُوۡنَکَ عَنِ الرُّوۡحِ ؕ قُلِ الرُّوۡحُ مِنۡ اَمۡرِ رَبِّیۡ وَ مَاۤ اُوۡتِیۡتُمۡ مِّنَ الۡعِلۡمِ اِلَّا قَلِیۡلًا ﴿۸۶﴾
And they ask thee concerning the soul. Say, ‘The soul is by the command of my Lord; and of the knowledge thereof you have been given but a little.’
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 17: Bani Isra'il
If they don't, then no one does. These images are a consequence of our images of relation with a god/universe.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
If they don't, then no one does. These images are a consequence of our images of relation with a god/universe.
But there is no other claimant except G-d, and humans don't create anything really, they only discover what already exists created by G-d, no compulsion to concede to it by the non-believers unless they understand it. Right, please?

Regards
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
But there is no other claimant except G-d, and humans don't create anything really, they only discover what already exists created by G-d, no compulsion to concede to it by the non-believers unless they understand it. Right, please?

Regards
Humans create a quite lot of everything. Right here, right now.

/me push out of materialism
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
What is one's understanding of the word "create", please? One's own understanding not from a lexicon, please.

Regards
The world, for each of us, exists by virtue of our thoughts. What we call senses is a translation of the world delivered to us as sensations. In experiencing sensations, translated into thought, we are participating in a world that is created each and every moment that we are here. To 'create' is to bring into being. The beings are the keyboard, the fingers that tap on the keyboard, the screen, the lights that illuminate the screen as pixels, the words, the ideas behind the words, the reading and understanding of those ideas, the analysis that happens, the judgement and eventual conclusion about those words, and turning to a friend to say, "Hey, look at what this guy said"--all these are 'beings' created by one person's participation in the world.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
The world, for each of us, exists by virtue of our thoughts. What we call senses is a translation of the world delivered to us as sensations. In experiencing sensations, translated into thought, we are participating in a world that is created each and every moment that we are here. To 'create' is to bring into being. The beings are the keyboard, the fingers that tap on the keyboard, the screen, the lights that illuminate the screen as pixels, the words, the ideas behind the words, the reading and understanding of those ideas, the analysis that happens, the judgement and eventual conclusion about those words, and turning to a friend to say, "Hey, look at what this guy said"--all these are 'beings' created by one person's participation in the world.
"What we call senses is a translation of the world delivered to us as sensations."

Please elaborate for me the above sentence specifically the part "world delivered to us", I could not get it exactly. Maybe because English is not my mother tongue.
Does it cover the sensations that arise in the dream while we are asleep and our eyes ( and other senses) don't see anything of the world around us, please?

Regards
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
"What we call senses is a translation of the world delivered to us as sensations."

Please elaborate for me the above sentence specifically the part "world delivered to us", I could not get it exactly. Maybe because English is not my mother tongue.
Does it cover the sensations that arise in the dream while we are asleep and our eyes ( and other senses) don't see anything of the world around us, please?

Regards
"Delivered to us," in this case, is a metaphor, a picture that plays on the divide between mind and body that we all carry, socially, meant to symbolize an acquiring from an external source. It covers dream sensations, yes, as they are translations in thought.

The metaphor isn't an accurate representation, but an adequate one.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said:
What is one's understanding of the word "create", please? One's own understanding not from a lexicon, please.

The world, for each of us, exists by virtue of our thoughts. What we call senses is a translation of the world delivered to us as sensations. In experiencing sensations, translated into thought, we are participating in a world that is created each and every moment that we are here. To 'create' is to bring into being. The beings are the keyboard, the fingers that tap on the keyboard, the screen, the lights that illuminate the screen as pixels, the words, the ideas behind the words, the reading and understanding of those ideas, the analysis that happens, the judgement and eventual conclusion about those words, and turning to a friend to say, "Hey, look at what this guy said"--all these are 'beings' created by one person's participation in the world.

A tree grows new leaves, can we say with one's understanding that the tree creates the leaves, please?

Regards
_____________
[2:117]وَ قَالُوا اتَّخَذَ اللّٰہُ وَلَدًا ۙ سُبۡحٰنَہٗ ؕ بَلۡ لَّہٗ مَا فِی السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ الۡاَرۡضِ ؕ کُلٌّ لَّہٗ قٰنِتُوۡنَ ﴿۱۱۷﴾
And they say, ‘Allah has taken to Himself a son.’ Holy is He! Nay, everything in the heavens and the earth belongs to Him. To Him are all obedient.
[2:118]بَدِیۡعُ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ الۡاَرۡضِ ؕ وَ اِذَا قَضٰۤی اَمۡرًا فَاِنَّمَا یَقُوۡلُ لَہٗ کُنۡ فَیَکُوۡنُ ﴿۱۱۸﴾
He is the Originator of the heavens and the earth. When He decrees a thing, He does only say to it, ‘Be!’ and it is.

https://www.alislam.org/quran/2:118
 
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Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
paarsurrey said:
What is one's understanding of the word "create", please? One's own understanding not from a lexicon, please.



A tree grows leaves, can we say with one's understanding that the tree creates the leaves, please?

Regards
_____________
[2:117]وَ قَالُوا اتَّخَذَ اللّٰہُ وَلَدًا ۙ سُبۡحٰنَہٗ ؕ بَلۡ لَّہٗ مَا فِی السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ الۡاَرۡضِ ؕ کُلٌّ لَّہٗ قٰنِتُوۡنَ ﴿۱۱۷﴾
And they say, ‘Allah has taken to Himself a son.’ Holy is He! Nay, everything in the heavens and the earth belongs to Him. To Him are all obedient.
[2:118]بَدِیۡعُ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ الۡاَرۡضِ ؕ وَ اِذَا قَضٰۤی اَمۡرًا فَاِنَّمَا یَقُوۡلُ لَہٗ کُنۡ فَیَکُوۡنُ ﴿۱۱۸﴾
He is the Originator of the heavens and the earth. When He decrees a thing, He does only say to it, ‘Be!’ and it is.

https://www.alislam.org/quran/2:118
The leaves are the tree, as much as the sap, the roots, and the photosynthesis.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
The leaves are the tree, as much as the sap, the roots, and the photosynthesis.
And what about the seeds/fruits when these drop off a tree/plant when ripe, can we say,with one's understanding, that the tree/plant has created these seeds/fruits ? These are no more now part of the tree/plant, please?

Regards
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Human cannot create an Atman/soul/Spirit. Can they, please?

Depends on your perspective. If a couple has sex and she becomes pregnant, didn't they ultimately create a soul?

(I am assuming the term 'soul' makes any sense at all, which I don't actually believe).
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Depends on your perspective. If a couple has sex and she becomes pregnant, didn't they ultimately create a soul?

(I am assuming the term 'soul' makes any sense at all, which I don't actually believe).
Sorry, no. They will ultimately produce (an offspring),or bear (a child). Right, please?

Regards
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
@paarsurrey , it seems to me that you are arguing in circles, on matters that are either undemonstrable or which you have already decided how to believe regardless of any arguments.

You have defined a God as a Creator of, well, everything. And decided that everything has to have been created by the One True God.

Solid enough as a closed system of statements. As a model for reality, however, it is of questionable value at best.
 
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