Misandry (hatred for men) -It's causes and it's relation to Misogynism

[Cooky]

I was just curious what causes misandry in women, who seem to hate men for some reason. Does anyone think that this condition is caused by male abuse towards females at a young age? Are there ways to get around it, so that women can learn to not hate men, especially masculine men? And finally, is misogynism a reaction to misandry?

Can the cycle be broken? Or is the damage permanent?

 

[exchemist]

I was just curious what causes Ultra-Feminism in women, who seem to hate men for some reason. Does anyone think that ultra-feminism is caused by male abuse towards females at a young age? Are there ways to get around it, so that women can learn to not hate men, especially masculine men? And finally, is misogynism a reaction to ultra-feminism?

Can the cycle be broken?

There has been, for millennia, a culture of limiting the role of women in society and of treating them as objects or property. In many parts of the world this is still the norm. Look at Japan. This can shade off into a belittling of women and resentment of them when they behave as equals to men - misogyny.

Feminism in general is a reaction to those attitudes. (In the 1970s I used to call myself a feminist, before it became a term appropriated for the exclusive use of women.) Every political position has its extremists. I suspect that is what ultra-feminists would be. However I have not met any personally, which leads me to wonder if they really exist, or if they are just an identity-politics pose struck by commentators in the left-wing media.

I do not know what you mean by "masculine" men, but it rather sounds as if you may mean men who are stuck in the attitudes of the 1950s - but perhaps you can set my mind at rest on that point.

 

[columbus]

RF stinks now. Really, really bad.

Luckily, we have a psychology forum.
Tom

ETA ~Caeli, don't ever change your custom user title or my post will become meaningless.~

 

[Cooky]

There has been, for millennia, a culture of limiting the role of women in society and of treating them as objects or property. In many parts of the world this is still the norm. Look at Japan. This can shade off into a belittling of women and resentment of them when they behave as equals to men - misogyny.

Feminism in general is a reaction to those attitudes. (In the 1970s I used to call myself a feminist, before it became a term appropriated for the exclusive use of women.) Every political position has its extremists. I suspect that is what ultra-feminists would be. However I have not met any personally, which leads me to wonder if they really exist, or if they are just an identity-politics pose struck by commentators in the left-wing media.

I do not know what you mean by "masculine" men, but it rather sounds as if you may mean men who are stuck in the attitudes of the 1950s - but perhaps you can set my mind at rest on that point.

I guess rather than using the term ultra-feminism, I should have used the term "Misandry".

Concerning male disposability, social psychologist Roy F. Baumeister has written:

"When the news media report some disaster, they sometimes use the phrase "even women and children" if such are among the victims ... The phrase expresses the point that men’s lives are valued less ... [than] anyone else’s life ... This is more than just disrespect. It helps remind each man that, in a desperate situation, he is expected to give up his life quickly and readily and without complaint if doing so will save a woman or child...One of the most famous disasters of the twentieth century was the sinking of the Titanic ... [The life-boat] seats were given to the women, while the men stayed on board to drown ... [The] richest men had a lower survival rate (34%) than the poorest women (46%). That fact ...should give serious pause to anyone who hews to the conventional wisdom (or feminist critique) that society is set up to favor the rich and powerful men at the expense of everyone else ... The idea of "patriarchy," even despite its fallacy of ignoring all the men at the bottom of society, entails that surely these privileged members of the male power elite are regarded by the culture as more valuable than anyone else ... Yet their lives were not worth as much as the lives of the lower-class women down in steerage ... Those women had hardly any money or power or status, but yet simply by virtue of being female, they were privileged to get some of the too-few seats in the lifeboats while the well-dressed gentlemen stood on the deck and silently watched them leave.[13]"
Misandry - Wikipedia

 

[exchemist]

I guess rather than using the term ultra-feminism, I should have used the term "Misandry".

Well that is something entirely different. Nothing to do with feminism at all, necessarily, and could have a multitude of causes.

What do you mean by "masculine" men, though?

 

[Cooky]

...Does anyone really doubt that women are the favored sex in Western civilization..?

 

[Cooky]

Well that is something entirely different. Nothing to do with feminism at all, necessarily, and could have a multitude of causes.

What do you mean by "masculine" men, though?

Working class men.

<EDIT> Allow me to fix my title and OP. Thanks.

 

[columbus]

I guess rather than using the term ultra-feminism, I should have used the term "Misandry".

Concerning male disposability, social psychologist Roy F. Baumeister has written:

"When the news media report some disaster, they sometimes use the phrase "even women and children" if such are among the victims ... The phrase expresses the point that men’s lives are valued less ... [than] anyone else’s life ... This is more than just disrespect. It helps remind each man that, in a desperate situation, he is expected to give up his life quickly and readily and without complaint if doing so will save a woman or child...One of the most famous disasters of the twentieth century was the sinking of the Titanic ... [The life-boat] seats were given to the women, while the men stayed on board to drown ... [The] richest men had a lower survival rate (34%) than the poorest women (46%). That fact ...should give serious pause to anyone who hews to the conventional wisdom (or feminist critique) that society is set up to favor the rich and powerful men at the expense of everyone else ... The idea of "patriarchy," even despite its fallacy of ignoring all the men at the bottom of society, entails that surely these privileged members of the male power elite are regarded by the culture as more valuable than anyone else ... Yet their lives were not worth as much as the lives of the lower-class women down in steerage ... Those women had hardly any money or power or status, but yet simply by virtue of being female, they were privileged to get some of the too-few seats in the lifeboats while the well-dressed gentlemen stood on the deck and silently watched them leave.[13]"
Misandry - Wikipedia

Really dude, I'm totally with you.

I got booted out of the RF "Feminist only" forum because I only identify with "equal rights for all", not Feminism. Feminism isn't about equality.
Tom

 

[exchemist]

Working class men.

<EDIT> Allow me to fix my title and OP. Thanks.

How bizarre.

 

[Revoltingest]

Really dude, I'm totally with you.

I got booted out of the RF "Feminist only" forum because I only identify with "equal rights for all", not Feminism. Feminism isn't about equality.
Tom

Aye, to be for equality makes one a non-feminist.
To be in the club on RF, it's much more about seeing women as
victims. As I was informed by one, libertarians cannot be feminist
because we'd allow women to become or hire prostitutes.

Btw, I took an on-line test, which found me around 95% feminist.
(I scored higher than some who were allowed in the forum.)

 

[exchemist]

...Does anyone really doubt that women are the favored sex in Western civilization..?

Yes. Quite obviously.

 

[Cooky]

How bizarre.

psychology is often bizarre. Surely you understand I didn't invent these words nor the concept.

 

[Cooky]

Yes. Quite obviously.

Then why are women systemically lead off the Titanic before men..?
Why when a woman stubs her toe, men are expected to comfort them, but when a man falls down, it's shock followed by laughter?
Why lay a coat down on a puddle for a woman to walk on?

...Yet you claim women are treated in a second class fashion?

 

[Father Heathen]

As I was informed by one, libertarians cannot be feminist
because we'd allow women to become or hire prostitutes.

To me it would seem like it would be rather anti-feminist to insist that women are incapable of making this decision for themselves.

 

[Revoltingest]

To me it would seem like it would be rather anti-feminist to insist that women are incapable of making this decision for themselves.

Go figure.
Feminists who oppose women making decisions
for themselves...that is one kind of feminism, &
apparently the approved kind at RF.

 

[exchemist]

Then why are women systemically lead off the Titanic before men..?
Why when a woman stubs her toe, men are expected to comfort them, but when a man falls down, it's shock followed by laughter?
Why lay a coat down on a puddle for a woman to walk on?

...Yet you claim women are treated in a second class fashion?

Re-read post 2 and you should be able to understand what I think.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

A feminist once got mad at me for liking the show Big Bang Theory, citing how Sheldon bosses Amy.

 

[Cooky]

on a first hand basis, I can relay to you that a few months ago, I fell 10 to 15 feet down a pole, and hurt my ribs really bad on bolts popping out of the pole, but my wife's first words were: "oh great, what are we going to do for income", rather than worry about my health. Turns out I was able to keep working, just in massive pain with a fractured rib.

...Likewise I was partially responsible for a snapped pole last wee, and received three days off for making a mistake. Now my wife is upset, because the money she feels entitled to won't be as plentiful as she hoped. Awwwwwww.... But I could have been killed!

She is a housewife.

...But please, lets not make this about me -I offer these up as examples that women are systemically treated, and expected to be treated better than men.

 

[Cooky]

A feminist once got mad at me for liking the show Big Bang Theory, citing how Sheldon bosses Amy.

That's totally unfair.

 

[Father Heathen]

...Does anyone really doubt that women are the favored sex in Western civilization..?

For the longest of time they had significantly less rights and protections from discrimination, harassment, etc. But now that the field has started leveling out a bit you have a lot of these beta males feeling threatened by it.

A man secure in his masculinity wouldn't be bothered by the thought of women gaining equality.