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Mis-translated Bible terms infavor of meat eating?

bhaktajan

Active Member
Would you like it if I told you that the language you have been reading, studying and speaking for years is wrong? That Trabjar does not mean "work" because you conjugated it wrong?

This is like the word "elohim." This word gets commonly mistranslated to mean " gods" and yes, it does look like the plural for of the root word "eloh." However, it simply is our way of saying "G-d.," One not many. And we are still told we are wrong.

Or a native speaker being told that "scissors" is a plural word when a native speaker will tell you it is a singular word.

FYI:
This is the very pastime that occurs in Hindu debates engaged-in by scholars and monks.

This is what is done in Yeshivas.

This is what seperates the famous lawyers from the mediocre lawyers.

This is what is done in every Govermental Parliment since time immemorial.

This is what seperates the famous Shakspearian actors from the mediocre Shakspearian actors.
 
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Harmonious

Well-Known Member
You are doing so much work ---for what?
Mostly, other people reading along who might learn something.

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Allow me one more attempt to assist you ---with this postulation:

You say "Lo Tirtzach" means murder [as opposed to kill in general]

Thus, I shall state that The word "Lo Tirtzach" appears only once in the Bible ---it occurs once as the Commandment, "Thou shall not Murder".
You are wrong. It appears many places. I am trying to get help, because I don't have a Hebrew concordance at my fingertips.

My lack of resources does not "prove" your point. It merely proves that I don't have a book to get me information that would be useful.

I'm doing what I can at this point. Now I have to wait.

Earlier use of the word "Lo Tirtzach" is not to be found in the OT Bible, Correct?
Probably not. But I'm waiting to collect that information.

If a word only appears once, without extensive usage ---how can it's meaning be argued?
It ISN'T used only once. I'm working on it.

How many times the word "Lo Tirtzach" appear in the OT prior to its use in the 10 Commandments?
As I said, I'm working on it.
 

javajo

Well-Known Member
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
1 Timothy 4:2-5
 

bhaktajan

Active Member
3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats,

Wow, how inauspicious can you get?
There are millons of species of life-forms that the soul can take birth as.
Do you think that the soul is only for Humans? Why? God is a person? Yes?

So God being a person is enough to save you from millenium of passing life-times as a beast led to slaughter so as to experience first-hand sufferring experienced by "dumb-animal"?

God is a person ---we souls in the Material world are thieves of all things that do not belong to us; nor do we know how to create anything. We are tenent farmers on this planet.

And we strut around passing the time taking cues from elders to partake of meats [aka, sub-human cadaver body parts] simply for the pleasure & bragging rights of it; rather than for obtaining all the Vitamins & Minerals required for healthy life.

Eating Meat is pimp mentality.

Retarted, old-aged, male & female, paralysed, drugged up & even rotten and/or fermented cadavers ---some ground into pate from hundreds of nameless carcasses for each autistic child yet to be born in the 1st world nations.

"Be Like your father in Heaven",
Bhaktajan
 

Harmonious

Well-Known Member
Wow, how inauspicious can you get?
There are millons of species of life-forms that the soul can take birth as.
Do you think that the soul is only for Humans? Why? God is a person? Yes?

So God being a person is enough to save you from millenium of passing life-times as a beast led to slaughter so as to experience first-hand sufferring experienced by "dumb-animal"?

God is a person ---we souls in the Material world are thieves of all things that do not belong to us; nor do we know how to create anything. We are tenent farmers on this planet.

And we strut around passing the time taking cues from elders to partake of meats [aka, sub-human cadaver body parts] simply for the pleasure & bragging rights of it; rather than for obtaining all the Vitamins & Minerals required for healthy life.

Eating Meat is pimp mentality.

Retarted, old-aged, male & female, paralysed, drugged up & even rotten and/or fermented cadavers ---some ground into pate from hundreds of nameless carcasses for each autistic child yet to be born in the 1st world nations.

"Be Like your father in Heaven",
Bhaktajan
I can respect your point of view. Truly I can. It makes sense, to a certain point.

But you know... different belief systems have a very different take on the concept of reincarnation, and an animal's purpose in the world as it relates to that of a human.

Trying to reinvent the ultimate meaning of the texts of a different belief system isn't going to make your point any more effectively.

I can respect your reverence for all animal life. I don't share it, in quite the same way, but neither does that mean that I am a base savage who thinks nothing of the value of life out only for my own satisfaction.

I see why, according to your belief system, you might think as you do. But instead of condemning me for manipulating my own belief system so I can indulge in pleasures God never intended, it might be more useful to understand what my belief system has to say in regards to valuing animals.

That is rather complicated, and rather respectful (perhaps, only in comparison with some, but certainly not with yours), but please do me the honor of understanding that even though we have differing value systems, that I actually DO have values.
 

bhaktajan

Active Member
Trying to reinvent the ultimate meaning of the texts of a different belief system isn't going to make your point any more effectively.

But, Truth must be an objective reality.

What I have been taught is, "God speaks/reveals himself [or truths] only to the degree that it is relevant to the audience. IWO, incarnations of God preach according to 'time and place'. "

God preaches according to 'time and place'.

Earlier use of the word "Lo Tirtzach" is not to be found in the OT Bible, Correct?

You said, "Probably not."

Oy, I hope you are wrong. I may have reason to debate ---but I don't have to win, per se.

I have software with 30 bibles on it multiple languages--- I'll have to look it up myself too.

BTW, it never occured to me to wonder about the ethomology of the term in question ---so, just see, how my earnest desire caused a notion to come to mind.

Okay, let's stay on task,
Bhaktajan
 
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Harmonious

Well-Known Member
It appears many places. I am trying to get help, because I don't have a Hebrew concordance at my fingertips.

As I said, I'm working on it.
Until I have something better, I was going to share with you something that I've come up with. I'm not thrilled with the concordance I've used, but I'll list every verse that the root Ratzach seems to show up that it lists.

In Ten Commandments
Exo 20:13,



Concerning the accidental murderer, and the establishment of the Cities of Refuge

Num 35:6 Num 35:11 Num 35:12 Num 35:16 Num 35:17 Num 35:18, Num 35:19 Num 35:21 Num 35:25 Num 35:26 Num 35:27, Num 35:28 Num 35:30 Num 35:31,


Concerning the accidental murderer, and the establishment of the Cities of Refuge
Deu 4:42,



Listing of Ten Commandments

Deu 5:17



Concerning the accidental murderer, and the establishment of the Cities of Refuge
Deu 19:3, Deu 19:4, Deu 19:6,



Comparing rape to murder

Deu 22:26


Concerning the accidental murderer, and the establishment of the Cities of Refuge
Jos 20:3, Jos 20:5, Jos 20:6, Jos 21:13, Jos 21:21, Jos 21:27, Jos 21:32, Jos 21:38


The murder of the Concubine at Gibeah

Jud 20:4


Elijah the Prophet accuses King Ahab of murdering Naboth

1 Ki 21:19


Elisha the Prophet speaks of a messenger as a son of a murderer

2 Ki 6:32,


A city once full of justice was now filled with murderers

Isa 1:21


Jeremiah asks how people could steal, murder, commit adultery and such things could then have no qualms about going to the Temple

Jer 7:9


The king of Babylon will give the order to murder

Eze 21:27


One of the list of sins Hosea is accusing Israel of is murder

Hos 4:2



Lists of people ambushing others, this verse lists gangs and bands of priests as murderers

Hos 6:9



With an implement of murder, my tormentors taunted me
Psa 42:11



A plea for those acting treacherously to be murdered (in retribution for their torment)
Psa 94:6,


A lazy person's excuse is that a lion waits, and he will be murdered in the streets

Prov 22:13



Explaining the plots of murderers

Job 24:14

I've gone through the list I was given and gave the context of every time the word with that root was used. (If it appears elsewhere, I'll have to find out using a better concordance.)
 

Harmonious

Well-Known Member
But, Truth must be an objective reality.

What I have been taught is, "God speaks/reveals himself [or truths] only to the degree that it is relevant to the audience. IWO, incarnations of God preach according to 'time and place'. "

God preaches according to 'time and place'
Be that as it may, your reinventing what Tanach says to meet your agenda will be met with as much scorn as I frequently give Christians who try to tell me that the commandments were only given "as practice," or "in preparation for Jesus."

They also like this whole "time and place" argument you seem to be favoring, here.
 

bhaktajan

Active Member
Until I have something better, I was going to share with you something that I've come up with. I'm not thrilled with the concordance I've used, but I'll list every verse that the root Ratzach seems to show up that it lists.

In Ten Commandments
Exo 20:13,
Concerning the accidental murderer, and the establishment of the Cities of Refuge

Num 35:6 Num 35:11 Num 35:12 Num 35:16 Num 35:17 Num 35:18, Num 35:19 Num 35:21 Num 35:25 Num 35:26 Num 35:27, Num 35:28 Num 35:30 Num 35:31,

Concerning the accidental murderer, and the establishment of the Cities of Refuge
Deu 4:42,

Listing of Ten Commandments
Deu 5:17

Concerning the accidental murderer, and the establishment of the Cities of Refuge
Deu 19:3, Deu 19:4, Deu 19:6,

Comparing rape to murder
Deu 22:26

Concerning the accidental murderer, and the establishment of the Cities of Refuge
Jos 20:3, Jos 20:5, Jos 20:6, Jos 21:13, Jos 21:21, Jos 21:27, Jos 21:32, Jos 21:38

The murder of the Concubine at Gibeah
Jud 20:4

Elijah the Prophet accuses King Ahab of murdering Naboth
1 Ki 21:19


Elisha the Prophet speaks of a messenger as a son of a murderer
2 Ki 6:32,

A city once full of justice was now filled with murderers
Isa 1:21

Jeremiah asks how people could steal, murder, commit adultery and such things could then have no qualms about going to the Temple
Jer 7:9

The king of Babylon will give the order to murder

Eze 21:27

One of the list of sins Hosea is accusing Israel of is murder
Hos 4:2

Lists of people ambushing others, this verse lists gangs and bands of priests as murderers
Hos 6:9

With an implement of murder, my tormentors taunted me
Psa 42:11

A plea for those acting treacherously to be murdered (in retribution for their torment)
Psa 94:6,

A lazy person's excuse is that a lion waits, and he will be murdered in the streets
Prov 22:13

Explaining the plots of murderers
Job 24:14

I've gone through the list I was given and gave the context of every time the word with that root was used. (If it appears elsewhere, I'll have to find out using a better concordance.)

Wow, I am indebted to you immensely.
I am now embarassed as to how beholding to you I have become.

I will save and print and append this to my own books.

thank you,
Bhaktajan
 

bhaktajan

Active Member
Harmonious,

I am indeed sincerely gratfull. I will make use of your references to do my own word check etc.
I am aware that I may have been viewed as bordering of some sort of anti-semetism, but I adore Jewish Tradition. I was gonna leave this topic for some time while I got around to using your data ---BTW, I meantioned that I will scan a page out of my copy of a pro-vegetarian book ---where this assertion of mine that forms the OP of this thread. That book [and I should have checked it before making any assertions of my own] contends, simply that there is a debate among Jewish Scholars or scholars of Jewish Law that assert that 'Thou shall not Kill' is what is meant versus 'Thou shall not murder' ---so I was seeming to state emphatically that there is a mis-tranlation . . . rather, I should have proclaimed that there is already a debate out there . . . and then via my posting of the scanned page from my book . . . I should have predicated my side of the debate as just me showing the debate that I had been privy to. I may seem that I knew beyond a doubt that I knew what I contended, but I am only seeking to reconcile my mentors writtings inre to the commandments and debates held by other parties ---a debate I know of through a book by an elder mentor of mine.

I will sometime later post that 'page-excerpt' simply to show you & all, the research that has been circulated on this topic.

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Something academic has occurred to me.
Just a foot note comment:

Can you approx count the number of times you posted the translation of the commandment '',
"Lo Tirtzach" as ‘Thou shall not murder'?

The word “Murder” is a German word!
BTW: The Sanskrit word, ‘Mrtyum’ means death.

But it does seem that the word murder is derived from the word ‘mortal’.

That is why I asked for multiple sources/locations where “Lo Tirtzach” is used ---to find the derivation of the word/term.

I guess I am saying that there must be a better way then translating a Hebrew word without using German. And BTW, other words, such as Homoicide, I think are Greek.
Why is it that one must borrow words from other cultures to explain a universally understood term? ---Am I framing this quagmire correctly?

Let us remember what Estelle Costanza, [in the TV Show Seinfeld] said, “Your father wanted a Mercedes, but I won't ride in a German car.”

murder (n.) http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=murder
O.E. morðor (pl. morþras) "secret killing of a person, unlawful killing," also "mortal sin, crime, punishment, torment, misery," from P.Gmc. *murthran (cf. Goth maurþr, O.Fris. morth, O.N. morð, M.Du. moort, Ger. Mord "murder"). from PIE *mrtro-, from base *mor-/*mr- "to die" (cf. L. mors, gen. mortis "death;" mori "to die;" see mortal). The spelling with -d- probably reflects influence of Anglo-Fr. murdre, from O.Fr. mordre, from M.L. murdrum, from the W.Gmc. root. Viking custom, typical of Germanic, distinguished morð (O.N.) "secret slaughter," from vig (O.N.) "slaying." The former involved concealment, or slaying a man by night or when asleep, and was a heinous crime. The latter was not a disgrace, if the killer acknowledged his deed, but he was subject to vengeance or demand for compensation.
Mordre wol out that se we day by day. [Chaucer, "Nun's Priest's Tale," c.1386]
Weakened sense of "very unpleasant situation" is from 1878. The verb is O.E. myrðrian, from P.Gmc. *murthjan. Related: Murdered; murdering.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=murder
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Wow, how inauspicious can you get?
There are millons of species of life-forms that the soul can take birth as.
Do you think that the soul is only for Humans? Why? God is a person? Yes?

So God being a person is enough to save you from millenium of passing life-times as a beast led to slaughter so as to experience first-hand sufferring experienced by "dumb-animal"?

God is a person ---we souls in the Material world are thieves of all things that do not belong to us; nor do we know how to create anything. We are tenent farmers on this planet.

And we strut around passing the time taking cues from elders to partake of meats [aka, sub-human cadaver body parts] simply for the pleasure & bragging rights of it; rather than for obtaining all the Vitamins & Minerals required for healthy life.

Eating Meat is pimp mentality.

Retarted, old-aged, male & female, paralysed, drugged up & even rotten and/or fermented cadavers ---some ground into pate from hundreds of nameless carcasses for each autistic child yet to be born in the 1st world nations.

"Be Like your father in Heaven",
Bhaktajan

You know, if you want to be vegetarian for moral reasons, nobody's stopping you. If you want to try to convince others to do likewise, there are plenty of valid ways of doing that. However, it's clear that the Bible does not condemn meat-eating. Heck - that passage in 1 Timothy effectively says that God explicitly approves of meat-eating.

So, if you want to argue for vegetarianism, fine... but the Bible does not support your case.
 

bhaktajan

Active Member
there are plenty of valid ways of doing that. However, it's clear that the Bible does not condemn meat-eating. Heck - that passage in 1 Timothy effectively says that God explicitly approves of meat-eating.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Then if you want to be oblivious to the Hellacious war-trenches and battle traumas that have plagued MEN & their Brothers-in-arms & the war time sacrifices . . . then you just do what you are doing like you don't and never will know better nor have an alternative to rise above the fray.

Now, go follow orders,
Bhaktajan

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
PS: Jesus never ate meat. Nor his father in heaven.

I haven't yet moved on to the new testiment . . . so during the wait . . . checks for polyps can be pursued.
 
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Harmonious

Well-Known Member
PS: Jesus never ate meat.
I assure you he did. He was commanded, like every other Jew, to eat from the Passover offering, among others.

See, the thing that you don't seem to understand is that there are times when Jews are not simply PERMITTED to eat meat, but there are times when we are COMMANDED BY GOD to eat meat.

Nor his father in heaven.
You're assuming that God is his father...

As far as the father thing goes, that's debatable.

But, assuming that God didn't eat meat... I'll give you no arguments about that, as God isn't physical, and therefore cannot eat.
 
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bhaktajan

Active Member
My speculation is the God himself designed this menus to feed the contractors on the seventh day:
Pizza, falafell, knish, hummus, ice cream & donuts.

But that is my Speculation.

Jewish Vegetarianism
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Consider these words of the prophets, the spokesmen of God:
What I want is mercy, not sacrifice. (Hos. 6:6)

To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto Me?" sayeth the Lord. "I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs or of he-goats...bring no more vain oblations.... Your new moon and your appointed feasts my soul hateth;...and when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you; yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear; your hands are full of blood. (Isa. 1:11-16)

I hate, I despise your feasts, and I will take no delight in your solemn assemblies. Yea, though you offer me burnt-offerings and your meal offerings, I will not accept them neither will I regard the peace-offerings of your fat beasts. Take thou away from me the noise of thy song; and let Me not hear the melody of thy psalteries. But let justice well up as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream. (Amos 5:21-4)

Deeds of compassion and kindness toward all creation are of greater significance to God than sacrifices: "To do charity and justice is more acceptable to the Lord than sacrifice" (Prov. 21: 3).


:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Myths & Realities Regarding Judaism & Vegetarianism:
Eighteen Reasons Jews Think They Should Not Be Vegetarians (And Why They Are Wrong) by Richard H. Schwartz

1) Myth: The Torah teaches that humans are granted dominion over animals (Genesis 1:26), giving us a warrant to treat animals in any way we wish.
Reality: Jewish tradition interprets “dominion” as guardianship, or stewardship: we are called upon to be co-workers with God in improving the world. Dominion does not mean that people have the right to wantonly exploit animals, and it certainly does not permit us to breed animals and treat them as machines designed solely to meet human needs. In A Vision of Vegetarianism and Peace, Rav Kook states: “There can be no doubt in the mind of any intelligent person that [the Divine empowerment of humanity to derive benefit from nature] does not mean the domination of a harsh ruler, who afflicts his people and servants merely to satisfy his whim and desire, according to the crookedness of his heart. It is unthinkable that the Divine Law would impose such a decree of servitude, sealed for all eternity, upon the world of God, Who is ‘good to all, and His mercy is upon all His works’ (Psalms 145:9).” This view is reinforced by the fact that immediately after God gave humankind dominion over animals (Genesis 1:26), He prescribed vegetarian foods as the diet for humans (Genesis 1:29).


2) Myth: The Torah teaches that only people are created in the Divine Image, meaning that God places far less value on animals.
Response: While the Torah states that only human beings are created “in the Divine Image” (Genesis 5:1), animals are also God’s creatures, possessing sensitivity and the capacity for feeling pain. God is concerned that they are protected and treated with compassion and justice. In fact, the Jewish sages state that to be “created in the Divine Image”, means that people have the capacity to emulate the Divine compassion for all creatures. “As God is compassionate,” they teach, “so you should be compassionate.”


3) Myth: Inconsistent with Judaism, vegetarians elevate animals to a level equal to or greater than that of people.
Reality: Vegetarians’ concern for animals and their refusal to treat animals cruelly does not mean that vegetarians regard animals as being equal to people. There are many reasons for being vegetarian other than consideration for animals, including concerns about human health, ecological threats, and the plight of hungry people. Because humans are capable of imagination, rationality, empathy, compassion, and moral choice, we should strive to end the unbelievably cruel conditions under which farm animals are currently raised. This is an issue of sensitivity, not an assertion of equality with the animal kingdom.


4) Myth: Vegetarianism places greater priority on animal rights than on the many problems related to human welfare.
Reality: Vegetarian diets are not beneficial only to animals. They improve human health, help conserve food and other resources, and put less strain on endangered ecosystems. In view of the many threats related to today’s livestock agriculture (such as deforestation and global climate change), working to promote vegetarianism may be the most important action that one can take for global sustainability.


5) Myth: By putting vegetarian values ahead of Jewish teachings, vegetarians are, in effect, creating a new religion with values contrary to Jewish teachings.
Reality: Jewish vegetarians are not placing so-called “vegetarian values” above Torah principles but are challenging the Jewish community to apply Judaism’s splendid teachings at every level of our daily lives. Vegetarians argue that Jewish teachings that we must treat animals with compassion, guard our health, share with hungry people, protect the environment, conserve resources, and seek peace, are all best applied through vegetarian diets.


6) Myth: Jews must eat meat on Shabbat and Yom Tov (Jewish holidays).
Reality: According to the Talmud (T.B. Pesachim 109a), since the destruction of the Temple, Jews are not required to eat meat in order to rejoice on sacred occasions. This view is reinforced in the works Re**** Chochmah and Kerem Shlomo and Rabbi Chizkiah Medini's Sdei Chemed, which cites many classical sources on the subject. Several Israeli chief rabbis, including Shlomo Goren, late Ashkenazic Chief Rabbi of Israel, Jonathan Sacks, Chief Rabbi of the British Commonwealth, and Shear Yashuv Cohen, Ashkenazic Chief Rabbi of Haifa, have been or are strict vegetarians.


7) Myth: The Torah mandated that Jews eat korban Pesach and other korbanot (sacrifices).
Reality: The great Jewish philosopher Maimonides believed that God permitted sacrifices as a concession to the common mode of worship in Biblical times. It was felt that had Moses not instituted the sacrifices, his mission would have failed and Judaism might have disappeared. The Jewish philosopher Abarbanel reinforced Maimonides’ position by citing a midrash (Rabbinic teaching) that indicates God tolerated the sacrifices because the Israelites had become accustomed to sacrifices in Egypt, but that He commanded they be offered only in one central sanctuary in order to wean the Jews from idolatrous practices.


8) Myth: Jews historically have had many problems with some animal rights groups, which have often opposed shechita (ritual slaughter) and advocated its abolishment.
Reality: Jews should consider switching to vegetarianism not because of the views of animal rights groups, whether they are hostile to Judaism or not, but because it is the diet most consistent with Jewish teachings. It is the Torah, not animal rights groups, which is the basis for observing how far current animal treatment has strayed from fundamental Jewish values. As Samson Raphael Hirsch stated: “Here you are faced with God’s teaching, which obliges you not only to refrain from inflicting unnecessary pain on any animal, but to help and, when you can, to lessen the pain whenever you see an animal suffering, even through no fault of yours.”


9) Myth: The restrictions of shechita minimize the pain to animals in the slaughtering process, and thus fulfill Jewish laws on proper treatment of animals.
Reality: This ignores the cruel treatment of animals on “factory farms” in the many months prior to slaughter. Can we ignore the force-feeding of huge amounts of grain to ducks and geese to produce foie gras, the removal of calves from their mothers shortly after birth to raise them for veal, the killing of over 250 million male chicks immediately after birth at egg-laying hatcheries in the U.S. annually, the placing of hens in cages so small that they can't raise even one wing, and the many other horrors of modern factory farming?
 

bhaktajan

Active Member
10) Myth: If Jews do not eat meat, they will be deprived of the opportunity to fulfill many mitzvot (commandments).
Reality: By not eating meat, Jews are actually fulfilling many mitzvot: showing compassion to animals, preserving health, conserving resources, helping to feed the hungry, and preserving the earth. And by abstaining from meat, Jews reduce the chance of accidentally violating several prohibitions of the Torah, such as mixing meat and milk, eating non-kosher animals, and eating forbidden fats or blood. There are other cases where Torah laws regulate things that God would prefer people not do at all. For example, God wishes people to live in peace, but he provides commandments relating to war, knowing that human beings will quarrel and seek victories over others. Similarly, the Torah laws that restrict taking female captives in wartime are a concession to human weakness. Indeed, the sages go to great lengths to deter people from taking advantage of such dispensations.


11) Myth: Judaism teaches that it is wrong not to take advantage of the pleasurable things that God has put on the earth. Since He put animals on the earth, and it is pleasurable to eat them, is it not wrong to refrain from eating meat?
Reality: Can eating meat be pleasurable to a sensitive person when he or she knows that, as a result, their health is endangered, grain is wasted, the environment is damaged, and animals are being cruelly treated? One can indulge in pleasure without doing harm to living creatures. There are many other cases in Judaism where actions that people may consider pleasurable are forbidden or discouraged - such as the use of tobacco, drinking liquor to excess, having sexual relations out of wedlock, and hunting.


12) Myth: A movement by Jews toward vegetarianism would lead to less emphasis on kashrut (dietary laws) and eventually a disregard of these laws.
Reality: Quite the contrary. In many ways, becoming a vegetarian makes it easier and less expensive to observe the laws of kashrut. This might attract many new adherents to keeping kosher, and eventually to other important Jewish practices. As a vegetarian, one need not be concerned with mixing milchigs (dairy products) with fleichigs (meat products), waiting three or six hours after eating meat before being allowed to eat dairy products, storing four complete sets of dishes (two for regular use and two for Passover use), extra silverware, pots, pans, etc., and many other considerations incumbent upon the non-vegetarian who wishes to observe kashrut.


13) Myth: If everyone became vegetarian, butchers, shochtim (slaughterers), and others dependent for a living on the consumption of meat would lack work.
Reality: There could be a shift from the production of animal products to that of nutritious vegetarian dishes. In England during World War II, when there was a shortage of meat, butchers relied mainly on the sale of fruits and vegetables. Today, new businesses could sell tofu, miso, felafel, soy burgers, and vegetarian cholent (Sabbath hot dish). Besides, the shift toward vegetarianism will be gradual, providing time for a transition to other jobs. The same kind of question can be asked about other moral issues. What would happen to arms merchants if we had universal peace? What would happen to some doctors and nurses if people took better care of themselves, stopped smoking, improved their diets, and so on? Immoral or inefficient practices should not be supported because some people earn a living in the process.


14) Myth: If everyone became vegetarian, animals would overrun the earth.
Reality: This concern is based on an insufficient understanding of animal behavior. For example, there are millions of turkeys around at Thanksgiving not because they want to help celebrate the holiday, but because farmers breed them for the dinner table. Dairy cows are artificially inseminated annually so that they will constantly produce milk. Before the establishment of modern intensive livestock agriculture, food supply and demand kept animal populations relatively steady. An end to the manipulation of animals’ reproductive tendencies to suit our needs would lead to a decrease, rather than an increase, in the number of animals. We are not overrun by animals that we do not eat, such as lions, elephants, and crocodiles.


15) Myth: Instead of advocating vegetarianism, we should alleviate the evils of factory farming so that animals are treated better, less grain is wasted, and less health-harming chemicals are used.
Reality: The breeding of animals is “big business”. Animals are raised the way they are today because it is very profitable. Improving conditions, as suggested by this assertion, would certainly be a step in the right direction, but it has been strongly resisted by the meat industry since it would greatly increase already high prices. Why not abstain from eating meat as a protest against present policies while trying to improve them? Even under the best of conditions, why take the life of a creature of God, “whose tender mercies are over all His creatures” (Psalms 145:9), when it is not necessary for proper nutrition?


16) Myth: One can work to improve conditions for animals without being a vegetarian.
Reality: Certainly, animal abuse is a widespread problem and there are many ways to improve conditions for animals. However, one should keep in mind that factory farming is the primary source of animal abuse in this country. According to FARM (Farm Animal Reform Movement), “The number of warm-blooded animals brutalized and slaughtered each year is approximately 70 times the number of animals killed in laboratories, 30 times the number killed by hunters and trappers, and 500 times the number killed in pounds.” They also reported that almost ten billion farm animals are killed annually to produce food. A typical meat-eating animal welfare advocate is personally responsible for the slaughter of twenty-two warm-blooded animals per year, 1,500 in an average lifetime.


17) Myth: If vegetarian diets were best for health, doctors would recommend them.
Reality: Unfortunately, while doctors are devoted to the well-being of their patients, many lack information about the basic relationship between food and health, because nutrition is not sufficiently taught at most medical schools. Also, many patients are resistant to making dietary changes. The accepted approach today seems to be to prescribe medications first and, perhaps, recommend a diet change as an afterthought. However, there now seems to be increasing awareness on the part of doctors about the importance of proper nutrition, but the financial power of the beef and dairy lobbies and other groups who gain from the status quo prevents rapid changes.


18) Myth: I enjoy eating meat. Why should I give it up?
Reality: If one is solely motivated by what will bring pleasure, perhaps no answer to this question would be acceptable. But Judaism wishes us to be motivated by far more: doing mitzvot, performing good deeds and acts of charity, sanctifying ourselves in the realm of the permissible, helping to feed the hungry, pursuing justice and peace, etc. Even if one is primarily motivated by considerations of pleasure and convenience, the negative health effects of animal-centered diets should be taken into account. One cannot enjoy life when one is not in good health.
 

bhaktajan

Active Member
12. Bonus Quotes:
The Torah repeatedly refers to Israel as a “land flowing with milk and honey” (Exodus 3:8, 3:17; Leviticus 20:24; Numbers 13:27, 14:8; Deuteronomy 11:9, 26:9, 26:15, 27:3, 31:20; Baruch 1:20; and Ezekiel 20:15). God further describes Israel as a “garden land”, saying He brought His people there to “eat its goodly fruits” (Jeremiah 2:7).

“Israel was promised bread to the full, but not flesh.
Their cry for bread was reasonable, but not for meat, for one can do without it.”
Rashi (11th Century Rabbi and the Talmud commentator), commentary to Exodus 16:8
(after receiving and eating quail, over 12,000 Israelites died from a plague in a place known as the “Graves of Lust”)

“The Torah teaches a lesson in moral conduct, that people shall not eat meat unless they have a special craving for it…and [then] shall eat it only occasionally and sparingly.”
Talmud, Chulin 84a

“Be kind and compassionate to all creatures that the Holy One, Blessed Be He, created in this world.
Neither beat nor inflict pain on any animal, beast, bird or insect.
Do not throw stones at a dog or a cat, nor should you kill flies or wasps.”
Sefer Chasidim [Book of the Pious]

“One does not ask for forgiveness of sins while wearing articles made from the skins of slaughtered animals.”
Shulchan Aruch [Code of Jewish Law, literally the Set Table]

“The enormity of challenges that we face, in terms of health, in terms of environmental impact, in terms of the waste of resources,
in terms of the way animals are treated today,
should all naturally lead a thinking sensitive Jew to question whether it is legitimate today…
to maintain a diet in which animals are being treated in a manner that contravenes halachic Jewish legal requirements,
in which we are treating ourselves in a manner that contravenes Jewish requirements,
in a manner that is insensitive towards the ramifications of our actions and our behavior towards other segments of society,
and where there are scandalous suffering of humanity that we could help alleviate if we were to follow a different diet.
So, all of these factors should make compelling arguments for any informed educated and responsible Jew to lead a vegetarian diet.”
Rabbi David Rosen, former Chief Rabbi of Ireland

“Perhaps the most powerful argument in favor of vegetarianism today more than ever before ... is the prohibition against ‘chillul HaShem’, the desecration of God’s name.
Surely it is precisely such a desecration when observant Jews eat animals produced under conditions of cruelty that flagrantly violate Jewish teachings and prohibitions...”
Rabbi David Rosen, former Chief Rabbi of Ireland

“I did not want to become a vegetarian. The world demanded that I be one."
Rabbi Paul Steinberg

“There are probably no creatures that require more the protective Divine word against the presumption of man than the animals, which like man have sensations and instincts, but whose body and powers are nevertheless subservient to man. In relation to them man so easily forgets that injured animal muscle twitches just like human muscle, that the maltreated nerves of an animal sicken like human nerves, that the animal being is just as sensitive to cuts, blows, and beatings as man. Thus man becomes the torturer of the animal soul, which has been subjected to him only for the fulfillment of humane and wise purposes ... Here you are faced with God’s teaching, which obliges you not only to refrain from inflicting unnecessary pain on any animal,
but to help and, when you can, to lessen the pain whenever you see an animal suffering, even through no fault of yours.”
Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch, Horeb, Chapter 60, Verses 415, 416)

“I am vegan because I cannot justify saying I believe in the values of social justice, human rights and caring for the environment
and continue to participate in something that is a core representation of exploitation and pain in the world.”
Boris Doan, Reconstructionist Rabbinical Student and Coordinator of ShalomVeg.com

"It appears that the first intention of the Maker was to have [people] live on a strictly vegetarian diet.
The very earliest periods of Jewish history are marked with humanitarian conduct towards the lower animal kingdom. ...
It is clearly established that the ancient Hebrews knew, and perhaps were the first among [people] to know, that animals feel and suffer pain."
Rabbi Simon Glazer


“It is not necessary for any human benefit to consume the flesh of animals.
In fact it is harmful to human health, destructive of the environment, and wasteful of valuable resources
that could be better used to feed the hungry and provide for the needy.
All of these are Torah values.”
Rabbi Hillel Norry
 

bhaktajan

Active Member
“I grew repulsed by the idea of killing and eating animals, so I stopped.”
Rabbi Jon-Jay Tilsen

“The staples of life do not include meat.”
Rabbi David Golinkin

“My decision to abstain from the consumption of animal products is an expression of my adherence to Jewish law.”
Rabbi Adam Frank

“Even the Torah itself recognizes that eating meat is not an ideal thing for the human being.
It’s not the ideal diet for the human race.”
Rabbi Simchah Roth

“Land, if it were used for growing, purely for growing food for vegetarian and vegan diets would feed many, many more people, and therefore for that reason also,
Judaism would say that in this modern age, this is something that we should very, very carefully consider.”
Rabbi Simchah Roth

“‘I can’t change the whole world’ you can say. My answer to that is:
You’re right, but you certainly can personally change your whole world.”
Rabbi Irving (Yitz) Greenberg on vegetarianism

“We need to think about how the food we eat advances the values we hold.”
Rabbi Eric Yoffie, President of the Union for Reform Judaism

“Changing to a plant-based diet or, short of that, reducing our consumption of meat drastically is the most important way we can each directly contribute to repairing the ecosystem
upon which we depend for our survival as a species. The “inconvenient truth” is that meat-based diets are unhealthy and unsustainable for the planet.”
Rabbi Leah Sudran

“The primary and self-sufficient basis for mandatory Jewish vegetarianism is tsa'ar ba'alei chayim, the Torah principle of animal welfare.
A vegetarian lifestyle is supported by a variety of other Jewish mandates, including preservation of human health and the environment, conservation,
and potentially reducing starvation and armed conflict in lesser developed nations.”
Phineas E. Leahey, J.D., Jewish Ethics and Mandatory Vegetarianism

“If we want the Earth to survive and if we want to greatly reduce the amount of hunger and starvation, and diseases related to hunger and starvation all over the world,
one of the most important things we can do is reduce or eliminate the consumption of meat. …
Jewish tradition and Jewish values want us to feed hungry people, want us to preserve and protect God’s natural world, want us to preserve and strengthen our own bodies,
and eating meat interferes with and reduces all of those possibilities.
If we want to care for the world and develop ourselves and help people in need, becoming vegetarian is a small thing that we can do that helps contribute to that,
and that symbolizes and expresses our concerns for those things.”
Jonathan Wolf, founder of JVNA

“You may love your individual dog, your individual bird, but animals are being slaughtered b y the billions… around the world for people who eat them.
So those animals don’t have such a good life. They’re not pampered pets, they are kept in cramped, unpleasant, unhealthful conditions
and when they’re shipped off to be slaughtered, they’re often exposed to terrible heat or terrible cold for days at a time. They live very unhappy, brutalized lives.”
Jonathan Wolf, founder of JVNA

“The [kashrut] rule of not being able to eat animals that eat other animals
is another strong argument for why humans themselves should not eat other animals.”
Rebecca Namm

“Humans - who enslave, castrate, experiment on, and fillet other animals –
have had an understandable penchant for pretending animals do not feel pain.
A sharp distinction between humans and ‘animals’ is essential if we are to bend them to our will, wear them, eat them
- without any disquieting tinges of guilt or regret.”
Carl Sagan, Ph.D. & Ann Druyan, Ph.D., Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors

“Put most simply, when I choose not to eat meat, I feel that I am choosing life over death.”
Jonathan Safran Foer, author of Everything Is Illuminated, winner of National Jewish Book Award
“Now I can look at you in peace; I don’t eat you anymore.”
 

bhaktajan

Active Member
Franz Kafka, Jewish author (looking at fish in an aquarium)

“Nothing will benefit health and increase the chances for survival
of life on Earth as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.”
Albert Einstein, Jewish scientist and philosopher; Time’s “Man of the [20th] Century”

“This is my protest against the conduct of the world. To be a vegetarian is to disagree—to disagree with the course of things today.
Starvation, world hunger, cruelty, waste, wars—we must make a statement against these things.
Vegetarianism is my statement and I think it’s a strong one.”
Isaac Bashevis Singer

“’Meat’ is a euphemism. ‘Meat’ is a word we use to partially shield ourselves from the fact that we are eating a dead animal.”
Nigel Savage, founder of Hazon

“Scripture does not command the Israelite to eat meat.”
Rabbi Elijah Judah Schochet, Animal Life in Jewish Tradition

“Jewish tradition does not command carnivorous behavior.”
Rabbi J. David Bleich, Yeshiva University

“Judaism emphasizes good deeds because nothing else can replace them.
To love justice and decency, to hate cruelty and to thirst for righteousness—that is the essence of the human task.”
Rabbi David J. Wolpe, Why Be Jewish?

“There is simply no spiritual defense in either the Western or Eastern religious traditions for eating meat.”
Rabbi Marc Gellman, “The First Hamburger”

“Look into the heart of your religion’s teachings on compassion, and look into your own heart,
Put aside your old habits and selfish appetites, and be honest with yourself.
Animals are beings like us, sentient, conscious, and fully able to experience suffering and joy. They love life and fear death.
And yet every year we murder them by the billions for food that we do not need to live long, healthy lives.
Can we honestly call this holocaust anything but evil?
There is no way that people of faith can be true to the deepest values of their religion and still eat animal products.”
Norm Phelps, founding member of the Society of Ethical and Religious Vegetarians

“The rabbis explain that meat-eating is a punishment to a Jew, not a reward.”
Janet Barkas, The Vegetable Passion

“It is far more appropriate for man not to eat meat; only if he has a strong desire for meat does the Torah permit it,
and even this only after the trouble and inconvenience necessary to satisfy his desire.”
Solomon Efraim Lunchitz, author of K’lee Yakar

“Vegetarianism s the logical next step after kashrut — the proper extension of the laws against cruelty to animals.”
Rabbi Everett Gendler

“I relate vegetarianism to Judaism in several ways…
the torture of animals and the suffering that they go through, to be raised on these large factory farms and then eaten is really forbidden by Judaism.”
Adam Stein, rabbinical student

“Keeping kosher is Judaism’s compromise with its ideal vegetarianism.
Ideally, according to Judaism, man would confine his eating to fruits and vegetables and not kill animals for food.”
Dennis Praeger and Rabbi Joseph Telushkin, The Nine Questions People Ask About Judaism
 
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