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Miracles

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Ceridwen018, Jun 17, 2004.

  1. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    The bible cites Jesus as performing many miracles. Christians use this as evidence to his divinity. Back in the day of the saints, miracles flew all over the place: from Mary sightings to the stigmata. Today, we have our crying statues and hologram-like images.

    What do you think about miracles? Do you believe in them? Why or why not?

    I personally do not, and I would like to offer up this link which presents a particularly interesting view on Jesus' miracles. Most people believe because they can find find no other explanation. Well, consider them explained!

    http://www.geocities.com/logic_faith/miracles.htm

    Tell me what you think of the site and what you may have in contestation!
     
  2. tigrers99

    tigrers99 Member

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    You know, the article tried to substitute 'Son of Man' in place of 'Son of God' Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, "Dost thou believe on the Son of God?" He answered and said, "Who is he Lord, that I might believe on him?" (Jn.9:35-36)

    Here is how the scriptures record what happened- And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world. When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay. And said unto him, Go wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing. The neighbors therefore, and they which before had seen him that he was blind, said, Is this he that sat and begged? Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he. Therefore said they unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said, A man that called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight. (JOHN 9:1-11) Compare the Biblical accounts with that secular site.
     
  3. tigrers99

    tigrers99 Member

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    You know, the article tried to substitute 'Son of Man' in place of 'Son of God' Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, "Dost thou believe on the Son of God?" He answered and said, "Who is he Lord, that I might believe on him?" (Jn.9:35-36)

    Here is how the scriptures record what happened- And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world. When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay. And said unto him, Go wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing. The neighbors therefore, and they which before had seen him that he was blind, said, Is this he that sat and begged? Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he. Therefore said they unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said, A man that called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight. (JOHN 9:1-11) Compare the Biblical accounts with that secular site.
     
  4. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not seeing any contradictions between the account you provided and the account found on that site. As far as the man/god argument goes, I guess that depends on what version your bible is, although I don't see how it makes a difference. The Revised Standard Version uses the wording, 'son of man'.
     
  5. trishtrish10

    trishtrish10 Active Member

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    i believe in miracles, in fact i was have had three miracles of healing myself. one in l996, 2001, and just this year. all for the same illness which i got from smoking cigarettes. i also have the gift of healing and have healed both people and animals. miracles are supernatural and are a gift from God.
     
  6. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    That sounds very interesting. Could you elaborate on you miraculous experiences?
     
  7. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

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    Some men discount miracles because they defy understanding. Herein lies the arrogance of the human race. To say that that which cannot be understood cannot be is to arrogate to the human mind omniscience; which we all know is a fallacy. There is much we do not understand about the universe (much more is misunderstood, or completely unknown than understood). The Egyptian word for "everything" is "all that we know and all that we do not know." They understood a little better than we do. We try to explain everything, and in doing so we ensure our failure. Miracles happen. I to have seen my share of miracles, but they are sacred to me and I do not believe in touting them about to impress my beliefs upon others. I believe that betrays their sanctity.
     
  8. (Q)

    (Q) Active Member

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    Some men discount miracles because they defy understanding.

    Or, because the simple explanation behind the so-called 'miracle' has not revealed itself and may in fact remain forever unknown. Those who seek to find the universe "mysterious" will usually clasify these events as 'miracles' rather than simply admit they just don't know.

    Miracles happen.

    Allow me to add your remarks directed at me from another thread, Mr. Pot.

    Carry on.
     
  9. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

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    I don't get it. How do those statements contradict each other?
     
  10. trishtrish10

    trishtrish10 Active Member

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    i have the gift of healing, but it is Jesus that does it thru me. all i do is place my hand on the ill person, Jesus takes care of the rest.
     
  11. (Q)

    (Q) Active Member

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    trish

    That is very hard to believe. And of course, if true there would have been a media event in which your talents have been shown to the world. Medical experts would be flocking to you.

    So, can you show us any proof of your healings?
     
  12. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    http://www.randi.org/research/

    James Randi has pledged that he will pay the sum of $1,000,000 to whomever can prove to him that they posess supernatural powers of any kind. So far, no one has even passed the preliminary testing, but if you feel so sure of your healing capabilities, go for it.
     
  13. (Q)

    (Q) Active Member

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    Ceridwen

    I think I've heard every excuse in the book from those who claim to possess certain 'powers' and are invited to try the Randi tests, everything from 'the tests are fixed' to 'I'm not interested in money.' I hope trishtrish doesn't do the same.
     
  14. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

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    Proving the reality of miracles does nothing to further God's cause. It's stupid. Maybe you should try to find out for yourself if they're real or not.
     
  15. (Q)

    (Q) Active Member

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    Proving the reality of miracles does nothing to further God's cause. It's stupid.

    I would whole-heartedly disagree with you, that is, if I had a heart. ;)

    But it most likely WOULD further your gods cause. Think about it.

    If a miracle is somehow shown to have evidence for its very existence, athiests and agnostics alike would really have something to think about, and there would most likely be converts from this group. As well, we might see non-deity religions giving up some of their flock to join one with a deity.

    Overall, the impact of a proven miracle would be highly advantagesly in your favor, and His.
     
  16. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

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    That would undermine the role of faith. God doesn't want anyone to convert because anything's been proven to them; it's weak faith. The faith you get from spiritual confirmation is stronger than the conviction that can be produced by any level of scientific affirmation. God wouldn't want anything to be corroborated by science.
     
  17. Ardhanariswar

    Ardhanariswar I'm back!

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    "James Randi has pledged that he will pay the sum of $1,000,000 to whomever can prove to him that they posess supernatural powers of any kind. So far, no one has even passed the preliminary testing, but if you feel so sure of your healing capabilities, go for it."

    but why ? why does someone who does miricles need to prove it? those who have faith for God will believe. and if he turns out to be a hoax, they will be exaulted becasue they believed it anyway. for those who dont believe, why must you prove it? you and i both know that they will keep asking questions.

    but the people of faith. they see it, and the believe. sometimes sceptics believe too.

    take the example of the marain apparition in cairo. thousands of people saw it. there was no explanation. and this happend for hours and hours on and off for week for two whole years!

    http://paranormal.about.com/library/blclassic_mary_church.htm

    that randhi guy should take a trip to the lourdes fountain if he doesnt have proof. sheesh.
    but some people dont understand and they will keep questioning it. sigh. wattodo?
     
  18. (Q)

    (Q) Active Member

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    but why ? why does someone who does miricles need to prove it?

    Because the hoaxsters need to be exposed. Therefore, everyone who makes the claim should at the very least prove what they claim.

    take the example of the marain apparition in cairo. thousands of people saw it. there was no explanation. and this happend for hours and hours on and off for week for two whole years!

     
  19. trishtrish10

    trishtrish10 Active Member

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    the media except for church papers and t.v. aren't prone to cover religious events, unless it furthers there propoganda. for example: four priests were saying the rosary in either Hiroshima or Nagasaki when the atom bomb exploded. they were near the center and everything was leveled around them. they survived even radiation effects. so as i say the media isn't interested.
    as for the guy randi or whoever he is, if he saw his hand in front of his face he would probably deny it's existance. i don't heal for money, but if he wanted to be truly charitable he can send me some as i really need it.
    i don't feel the need for attention. everyone has the gift of healing as prayers for someone's spiritual, emotional, physical or mental health always help that person in one or the other areas. physical healing is more prevalent than u think.
     
  20. trishtrish10

    trishtrish10 Active Member

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    randi would say he had his eyes closed.
     
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