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Featured Mind, Body, Duality, Theism, and Atheism

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Sep 10, 2019 at 10:20 AM.

  1. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    atheists have belief systems. everyone does. anyone identifying "their" system as atheist composes "their" set of beliefs; which are subjective on how to behave as sts or sto.

    things may appear to be dualistic, or contrasted but in reality they are the same.


    example E = m(c*c) are the same thing seeming to appear differently
     
  2. Fool

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    i agree
     
  3. Fool

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    the presence of positive and negative beliefs is what a belief system is. everyone has a belief system, its natural in humans to have beliefs. when someone identifies their system as this, or that, they have labeled their system of beliefs; whether for or against something.


    so some atheists don't believe in an immaterial consciousness as being absolute and some theists don't believe in a material consciousness being absolute.

    the underlying problem is that they are two polarized aspects of a spectrum
     
  4. Fool

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    brains aren't necessary for consciousness. an electromagnetic source is needed.
     
  5. Fool

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    i'm an atheist by belief and a theist of sorts by knowledge of self. i chose the labels. most atheists and theists choose their labels; unfortunately all humans have beliefs and generally behaviors that are generated/triggered by those beliefs.


    alexander the great learned this lesson long ago. you can't control someone's beliefs but you can control someone's behaviors. love and fear are great motivators
     
    #45 Fool, Sep 11, 2019 at 11:23 AM
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019 at 11:32 AM
  6. Fool

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    a better logical statement would be


    theism <> monism or dualism and atheism <> monism or dualism.
     
  7. ArtieE

    ArtieE Well-Known Member

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    Atheism isn't a belief system although there are belief systems such as Raëlism or Buddhism that do not involve gods.
     
  8. syo

    syo Well-Known Member

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    I don't know... :emojconfused:
     
  9. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    Show me a consciousness that doesn't come from a brain.

    Merely an electromagnetic source is not nearly enough. You need a neural network capable of processing information based on input.

    By "brain" I don't necessarily mean an organic brain like we have in our heads. It can also be a "brain" as in a neural network running on computer hardware and thereby giving rise to a "consciousness", which would be an AI. Theoretically, I expect that to be possible. However, our technology isn't nearly as advanced enough as that would require.

    At this point, the ONLY examples I know of consciousnesses, are those that come from physical (organic) brains.
     
  10. Fool

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    everyone has a belief system. that system doesn't have to be theistic or atheistic. it's a human condition and is necessary in order to explore one's reality and by using one's past experiences, knowledge. newborns have to start from somewhat of a blank slate. when someone encounters something novel, they have to use belief in order to test that novelty against what is known vs what is not known. in reality there are no absolutes. so what is being experienced and what has been experienced are not necessarily the same thing.

    you have belief from lack of experience.

    you have knowledge from experience.

    belief <> knowledge or experience.

    belief = lack of experience, or lack of knowledge.



    in hinduism there are a few non-theistic schools
    Nāstika Hindu[edit]
    The main schools of Indian philosophy that reject the Vedas were regarded as heterodox in the Brahmanical tradition:[4]

    1. Buddhism
    2. Jainism
    3. Cārvāka
    4. Ājīvika
    5. Ajñana
    The use of the term nāstika to describe Buddhism and Jainism in India is explained by Gavin Flood as follows:

    At an early period, during the formation of the Upaniṣads and the rise of Buddhism and Jainism, we must envisage a common heritage of meditation and mental discipline practiced by renouncers with varying affiliations to non-orthodox (Veda-rejecting) and orthodox (Veda-accepting) traditions.... These schools [such as Buddhism and Jainism] are understandably regarded as heterodox (nāstika) by orthodox (āstika) Brahmanism.
     
    #50 Fool, Sep 11, 2019 at 3:25 PM
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019 at 3:36 PM
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  11. Fool

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    plants and bacteria have intelligence.
     
  12. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    1. define "intelligence" in that sense please.

    2. why did you change the terminology from "consciousness" to "intelligence"? These are not the same thing
     
  13. Fool

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    c. 1400, "faculty of understanding, comprehension," from Old French intelligence (12c.) and directly from Latin intelligentia, intellegentia "understanding, knowledge, power of discerning; art, skill, taste," from intelligentem (nominative intelligens) "discerning, appreciative," present participle of intelligere "to understand, comprehend, come to know,"


    you're right they aren't

    but the fact remains you don't have to have a brain to have intelligence or consciousness.


    you only have to have a electromagnetic way of transceiving
     
  14. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    So what makes you think that bacteria are capable of "understanding" and "comprehend" things?

    Repeating your claim does not make it true.
    You have yet to give me a single example of a consciousness absent a physical brain.

    Give me a verifiable example
     
  15. Fool

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    google.com

    The Beautiful Intelligence of Bacteria and Other Microbes


    Why microbes are smarter than you thought


    Plant Intelligence: An Overview


    https://www.astrobio.net/origin-and-evolution-of-life/bacterial-intelligence/


    The roots of plant intelligence
     
  16. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    None of these match the definition you gave. All of them use the word "intelligence" in very different ways.
    You spoke of "understanding" and "to comprehend". Both of which requires reasoning faculties.

    That's quite different from what these articles are talking about.
     
  17. night912

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    You're contradicting yourself. And you are wrong about life being intelligently created.

    If non existence is impossible, then that would make existence to be eternal. And anything that is eternal is not created because it always existed. So there was no ultimate cosmic beginning because existence was always there.
     
  18. Fool

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    i'm fine with your dismissive and no true scotsman's fallacy
     
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