Michael Jackson Dies

[ChristineES]

The man DIED! People are mourning him. Think about his family- his kids, his brothers and sisters, his parents, his friends, etc. No, I was not his biggest fan either, but there is no denying he had talent, regardless if he did not appeal to some of you. I don't know if he was truly a pedophile or not, but he was found not guilty by a court.

 

[Smoke]

The man DIED!

We're all going to die. Death is not an extraordinary circumstance that exempts anyone from criticism.
People said the same thing when Jerry Falwell died: Oh, you can't speak ill of the dead. Why the hell not?

Think about his family- his kids, his brothers and sisters, his parents, his friends, etc.

What about them? They're reading RF, and Ymir's opinion that Michael Jackson wasn't the greatest pop performer will be a terrible blow to them? They're unaware that many people believe the allegations of child abuse?

 

[Mister_T]

Actually it is what happened and you admitted it. He was acquitted.

Admitted what? I provided the basis for my thoughts which you asked for. I don't believe I ever mention that he wasn't acquitted and I really don't understand why that matters, considering the fact remains that people received settlement money and became hush-hush. I don't seem to be the one in error, sorry. Regardless, I'm not going to waste time arguing semantics (I thought this was a discussion thread?) just because you have a chip on your shoulder. Those are my thoughts, there's my reasons for thinking them. Take them or leave them.

People who are legally and personally wronged settle all the time. Didn't you know that?

People with a lot of money also pay people off/settle out of court just for sake of ending it because they do not feel like enduring legal battles any more, even though they may be innocent. Corporations for example, do this sometimes with lawsuits involving employees/former employees, even if they are in the right because it's less headache and it's cheaper than dragging out court cases. Apparently, you didn't know that or it doesn't fit into your realm of possibility (at least in this scenario).

From the same article:

When asked why he paid off his accuser, Jackson answered, "I wanted to go on with my life. Too many people had already been hurt. I want to make records. I want to sing. I want to perform again...It's my talent. My hard work. My life. My decision."[34] He also wanted to avoid a "media circus".[11]

As I stated earlier, we'll never really know for sure, but there's my basis for my opinion (again) that you've asked for. Do with it you will.

 

[Mister_T]

True but there is the reality that if you or I were caught in similar circumstances we would be reading threads on RF from behind prison walls, as it is unlikely that either of us would have the money to afford the best legal minds available to defend us. You have to remember that the law works differently if you are rich and famous. 'Tis a fact, in case you hadn't noticed.

Sad, but true. I wonder how many people would be in jail if the common jailbird could afford lawyers of the same caliber Jonnny Cochran was.

 

[3.14]

1 person died........ by the time you read this another person died, whats the big deal its not like i died or anything,

and to be honest he wasn't a very good "king", now elvis that was a good king

 

[rojse]

The man DIED! People are mourning him.

I don't see why people should convey false opinions on the quality of Jackson's work merely because he is dead.

 

[Magic Man]

Logical fallacy - appeal to numbers.

No, the whole point is how many people like him so much. He's the king of pop because of the impact he's had on that many people.

Though often an indicator that something is good, the Grammy's also tend to reflect what sells well and is not necessarily a sign of musical genius.

True, but this goes along with the above point.

Logical fallacy - appeal to numbers (again). This only proves that many people lack good taste.

Regardless of whether or not they do lack good taste, the point is they liked him a whole lot. The point of giving someone a label like "king of pop" is to show how much of an impact they've had on pop. What you think of him is irrelevant to that title.

Yes, he proved that if you spend enough money on an inane product and hire a great director you will probably get a pretty neat final product.

Are you jealous or something?

Appeal to numbers fallacy ... for the third time. What millions of others "recognized" did not escape my notice. I simply refused to go along with the idea that what I was seeing was somehow great.

For the third time, the appeal to numbers is the entire point. You may not like him or think much of him (although you seem to go further than just being indifferent, you seem to really dislike him), but that doesn't change the fact that he had a huge impact on the music industry.

 

[3.14]

naming him king= publicity stunt
worked for elvis and worked for him

going to see if it works for me ....

 

[keithnurse]

First there was Ed McMahon, then Farrah Fawcett-Majors, then Michael Jackson and now Billy Mays died this morning. I read that during the molestation investigation in the mid 90s which DID go to trieal, the mental health professional who interviewed MJ and then the child who accused him said that MJ was more like a 10 year old child and did not fit the profile of a pedophile. I don't know if he molested children sexually but he didn't do it officially until a jury says he did. Innocent until PROVEN guilty, that's the American way.

 

[ChristineES]

I don't see why people should convey false opinions on the quality of Jackson's work merely because he is dead.

I think you misunderstood what I meant. I was saying it was kind of unusual to argue whether or not he had talent or not when he had died. And I know people die every day- every minute or even second even. And I think it is inappropriate to judge a man's character on a obit thread- I think it would have been better to start another thread about his actions. Peace and long life.

 

[blackout]

The man definately had a style that was all his own.

He was truly a unique character.

 

[darkendless]

It disgusts me to see half the tools that spent the last 5 years slandering him about child molestation to make themselves look good come out and say what a top bloke he was. I hope they all rot in hell for being so faceless.

 

[blackout]

The one great thing I think he created was an Image.

He made an effective I'con of himself.
Not everyone can do such a thing.

Not even (a fraction of) those with fame and money and backing.

HE was the "product" .... more than his 'work'.

 

[blackout]

But why do we celebrate icons in popular culture so much when there are so many other more worthy achievements, and achievers, that we could recognise?

I usually wonder why people don't recognize greatness in their own self.

That is the one greatness in the whole world that interests me most.
Because it is mine to both recognize and actualize.

 

[Clover]

I just loved his song Beat it when they played it in Back to the Future, lol.

 

[rojse]

naming him king= publicity stunt
worked for elvis and worked for him

going to see if it works for me ....

King of Pi?

 

[rojse]

It disgusts me to see half the tools that spent the last 5 years slandering him about child molestation to make themselves look good come out and say what a top bloke he was. I hope they all rot in hell for being so faceless.

I wonder how much psychological problems that celebrities have is fuelled by tabloid papers. Constantly badgering celebrities, reporting all of their flaws, criticising them on the most insubstantial rumours.

If the tabloid papers (which are brought by people to sate their needs to learn about their favourite celebrities) play any part in Jackson's behaviour, I wonder how much of Jackson's circumstances could be attributed to them. If they affected his mental balance, which led him to taking a variety of pills, it might which may well have played a part in Jackson's premature death.

That's a comforting thought.

 

[rojse]

I think you misunderstood what I meant. I was saying it was kind of unusual to argue whether or not he had talent or not when he had died. And I know people die every day- every minute or even second even. And I think it is inappropriate to judge a man's character on a obit thread- I think it would have been better to start another thread about his actions. Peace and long life.

This is the OP:

According to TMZ and several other sites, Michael Jackson has been pronounced dead at the hopital he was rushed to after suffering a heart attack. He was 50.

It doesn't say anything about what this thread is about. It is a short note, with a link, to tell us that Michael Jackson has died. It doesn't say that this is a thread to celebrate his works, or discuss our opinions of Michael Jackson as a person. It doesn't say it's an obituary. The thread, to me, tells me that Michael Jackson has died, and allows me to give my own opinions. Whether this is positive response or not is up to the individual.

Since so many people are saying that it is a great loss, because that Michael Jackson has contributed greatly to music and dance (including many larger media outlets), I think his influence appropriate to discuss here.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Michael Jackson...
shades of genius, shades of brilliance

But, the boy in the bubble became a rotten prince.

Like any "superstar" (for if there was anyoen deserving of such a label, it would be michael)
if they start believing their own hype..... its a slow road, down hill....

Michael demanded that people say he was the king of pop...

Back when thriller was in the cahrts (the labum) he was on top of his game....
The best selling album of all time, might not be anymore, but for rather a long time it was, it sold like tanks of air in a world which suddenly lost all of its oxygen....

A new Michael Jackson song and mainly video was an event in "history" at the time... the world stopped, briefly..to see the guy.

Then it slowly went wrong...
The plastic surgery,
the melting face
the skin that became white,
fatherhood with what amounted to a dumpy plain white woman...
Finally pedophilia charges and the financial disaster...

Personally pop music is pop music.... its not all that great
Michael made some classics, he could sing, and dance...
But he believed his own hype
He grew an ego
In desperation he carved his face and transformed his skin

In the end, the cult of celebrity is the cult of celebrity.
A man is dead...but music goes on.
Beehoven was deaf
But MJ was a moon dancer....

..........

Looking out
Across the night-time
The city winks a sleepless eye
Hear her voice
Shake my window
Sweet seducing sighs

Get me out
Into the night-time
Four walls won't hold me tonight
If this town
Is just an apple
Then let me take a bite

If they say -
Why, why, tell 'em that is human nature
Why, why, does he do me that way
If they say -
Why, why, tell 'em that is human nature
Why, why, does he do me that way

Reaching out
To touch a stranger
Electric eyes are ev'rywhere
See that girl
She knows I'm watching
She likes the way I stare


If they say -
Why, why, tell 'em that is human nature
Why, why, does he do me that way
If they say -
Why, why, tell 'em that is human nature
Why, why, does he do me that way
I like livin' this way
I like lovin' this way

Looking out
Across the morning
The city's heart begins to beat
Reaching out
I touch her shoulder
I'm dreaming of the street


If they say -
Why, why, tell 'em that is human nature
Why, why, does he do me that way
If they say -
Why, why, tell 'em that is human nature
Why, why, does he do me that way
I like livin' this way

 

[blackout]

I wonder how much psychological problems that celebrities have is fuelled by tabloid papers. Constantly badgering celebrities, reporting all of their flaws, criticising them on the most insubstantial rumours.

If the tabloid papers (which are brought by people to sate their needs to learn about their favourite celebrities) play any part in Jackson's behaviour, I wonder how much of Jackson's circumstances could be attributed to them. If they affected his mental balance, which led him to taking a variety of pills, it might which may well have played a part in Jackson's premature death.

That's a comforting thought.

It all comes along with the "paycheck".