Messianic Christology

[Stokley]

Let someone here help you. Before you continue with your words, do your best to first distinguish between "proofs" and "evidence."

YHWH/CHRIST are not honored by interchanging and confusing proofs and evidence. Both Believers and The Godless Lost can easily see you doing that.

 

[Intojoy]

She's right there. Can't you see her?

I'm sure Dr. Fruchtenbaum is very learned. But he clearly has no justification for his opinion on this outside of his theological view that he needs to fit in the verse.

Right. He is talking to Ahaz as a descendant of the House of David, which includes many people. So he uses the plural.

i don't think anyone will take it seriously no matter how many gernations of Jews are being condemdned by Matthew, since its in the best interest of the author to create a problem with the villain so that people will follow the new religious leader.


And Tumah teaches that second century Christendom required its believers to eat porridge made from rendered pig fat and burnt tree bark every Tuesday.
Obviously its true because it supports my theological belief that Christians are horrible cooks.


Its not offensive to me in the slightest, because I find it pathetic so there's nothing to make me feel defensive over.
Being a Hebrew scholar doesn't make the good doctor right. Apparently it just makes it easier for him to fool himself and others.

Well I would've opted for Islam over Romanism in those days due to the satanic influence in the counterfeit Christian Church of Rome. I'm sticking with the Frucht since I am a Christian and because in order to understand the actions of Yeshua and his Jewish disciples it is imperative to study their words in the light of a first century historical Jewish frame of reference even if you were right and the whole movement was a false one.

At a time when Israel was looking in anticipation for their deliverer Messiah,
Yeshua believed he was the Jewish Messiah. By healing a Jewish leper (first one since the completion of the Torah), Yeshua automatically claimed the Messiahship. The Sanhedrin had in place a two stage process for determining if anyone who claimed this position was genuine or false.

Stage one was the stage of observation. The elders of Israel were sent out to determine if the one who performed the healing of the Jewish leper was a significant claimant or not. They were forbidden to ask any questions and could only observe and report back which they did. They determined that this was a significant claim and sent in motion the stage of interrogation, from that point forward everywhere Yeshua goes he is followed by a Pharisee.

For the first time since the writing of Torah the laws concerning the ritual cleansing of a Jewish leper could be put into effect.

As a sense of humor, Yeshua after being rejected by his generation of Israel, Yeshua heals 10 lepers and sends them to the temple. That's 7 days a piece for the Pharisees to observe.

 

[Intojoy]

Let someone here help you. Before you continue with your words, do your best to first distinguish between "proofs" and "evidence."

YHWH/CHRIST are not honored by interchanging and confusing proofs and evidence. Both Believers and The Godless Lost can easily see you doing that.

Child Please

 

[Tumah]

Well I would've opted for Islam over Romanism in those days due to the satanic influence in the counterfeit Christian Church of Rome. I'm sticking with the Frucht since I am a Christian and because in order to understand the actions of Yeshua and his Jewish disciples it is imperative to study their words in the light of a first century historical Jewish frame of reference even if you were right and the whole movement was a false one.

At a time when Israel was looking in anticipation for their deliverer Messiah,
Yeshua believed he was the Jewish Messiah. By healing a Jewish leper (first one since the completion of the Torah), Yeshua automatically claimed the Messiahship. The Sanhedrin had in place a two stage process for determining if anyone who claimed this position was genuine or false.

Stage one was the stage of observation. The elders of Israel were sent out to determine if the one who performed the healing of the Jewish leper was a significant claimant or not. They were forbidden to ask any questions and could only observe and report back which they did. They determined that this was a significant claim and sent in motion the stage of interrogation, from that point forward everywhere Yeshua goes he is followed by a Pharisee.

For the first time since the writing of Torah the laws concerning the ritual cleansing of a Jewish leper could be put into effect.

As a sense of humor, Yeshua after being rejected by his generation of Israel, Yeshua heals 10 lepers and sends them to the temple. That's 7 days a piece for the Pharisees to observe.

Book
Fabricated background authenticating voracity of book
Self-validated beliefs

Ok. We're ready!

 

[Stokley]

Child Please

We're you trying to convey a sentient thought upon something?

Try your best to rise above ad hominem ideas. This topic is of no use to anyone when evidence is called "proof." As well, it is presumptuous for anyone to state "what this passage /verse shows us." Lol. The Imperial Pronouns "We/Us/Our" as they are used by Spouting Whiteknuckler Christians cannot be demonstrated outside of Whiteknucklers imagination.

Lol.

 

[Ingledsva]

Dr Fruchtenbaum is a Hebrew scholar, a graduate of NYU and Jerusalem University. Your assessment about his origins are wrong. It's not my fault you have never heard of him.

The plural "you" is used by Isaiah in the virgin birth passage that you are unable to refute. Your anger about this is revealing. Why should anyone take your word on Messianic Christology Ingldead?

I certainly don't accept any of your baseless arguments here. I could take the time in love to look at all the statements you are making at some point God willing. But for time's sake Isaiah 9 is nuff for now.

It is you who has approached this topic with a preconceived philosophical prejudice.

I suggest you reread what I wrote.

It is ALL fact according to HIS SITE! GOT THAT? - FROM HIS SITE!!!!! http://www.ariel.org/ariel-history.htm and this history - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_Fruchtenbaum

He is a so-called "Hebrew" "scholar" - ONLY - because he took those studies FROM A CHRISTIAN UNIVERSITY!!!

And that puts much of what he says in question, - as it comes from later erroneous Christian ideas!

You are a hoot - you have been shown by me, and actual Jewish - Hebrew understanding people - that Isaiah has NOTHING to do with a future Jesus!

PS - If you continue to disrespect me -- with that - Ingldead - crap, - I will report you.

EDIT - forgot to add - Jerusalem University College, founded in 1957 and formerly known as the American Institute of Holy Land Studies, is an independent undergraduate and graduate academic institution in Israel used by a consortium of 85 North American theological seminaries and Christian colleges and universities

So again - a Christian education.

*

 

[Intojoy]

We're you trying to convey a sentient thought upon something?

Try your best to rise above ad hominem ideas. This topic is of no use to anyone when evidence is called "proof." As well, it is presumptuous for anyone to state "what this passage /verse shows us." Lol. The Imperial Pronouns "We/Us/Our" as they are used by Spouting Whiteknuckler Christians cannot be demonstrated outside of Whiteknucklers imagination.

Lol.

Is that you or the Seagrams Seven talking Smokes?

 

[Intojoy]

I suggest you reread what I wrote.

It is ALL fact according to HIS SITE! GOT THAT? - FROM HIS SITE!!!!! http://www.ariel.org/ariel-history.htm and this history - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_Fruchtenbaum

He is a so-called "Hebrew" "scholar" - ONLY - because he took those studies FROM A CHRISTIAN UNIVERSITY!!!

And that puts much of what he says in question, - as it comes from later erroneous Christian ideas!

You are a hoot - you have been shown by me, and actual Jewish - Hebrew understanding people - that Isaiah has NOTHING to do with a future Jesus!

PS - If you continue to disrespect me -- with that - Ingldead - crap, - I will report you.

EDIT - forgot to add - Jerusalem University College, founded in 1957 and formerly known as the American Institute of Holy Land Studies, is an independent undergraduate and graduate academic institution in Israel used by a consortium of 85 North American theological seminaries and Christian colleges and universities

So again - a Christian education.

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I suggest you eat a happy meal ingle

 

[Ingledsva]

I suggest you eat a happy meal ingle

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Try acknowledging when you are wrong!

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[Ingledsva]

Is that you or the Seagrams Seven talking Smokes?

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You are attacking people again - instead of rebutting the post.

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[Stokley]

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You are attacking people again - instead of rebutting the post.

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He reflexively knows nothing else. Small knowledge. Lol.

 

[Intojoy]

 

[Stokley]

Lol. Just a little opposition is needed to stifle the big talker. "What WE ALL can see we here is ... " lol.

 

[psychoslice]

After skimming over this thread, I think I've come to a conclusion.

We're all our own messiahs. Looking for a messiah anywhere outside of ourselves is a waste of time and a rejection of personal responsibility.

This is so true, but not many can understand it, because they try to understand it through the mind, and not through their inner Being.

 

[Stokley]

This is so true, but not many can understand it, because they try to understand it through the mind, and not through their inner Being.

Tell us how you understand things through your inner being.

 

[psychoslice]

Tell us how you understand things through your inner being.

I cannot tell you how because we all experience it in our own way, for me it was from within, in an experience that was beyond my mind, I suppose you could call it an Awakening, or Self Realization.

 

[Intojoy]

Demons have begun polytasking

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I happened to stumble in here and read a lot of what was proposed and then a lot of the replies. I have to admit knowing nothing much abut the texts being cited, however, in first reading the initial laying out of points/"proofs"/whatever by @Intojoy, I found myself nothing but confused. Half the time he made claim that a particular passage he quoted contained "teachings" about a thing (like that the Messiah would be a king, or from this line or that, or the son of God), I just didn't see it. The things he said were proved just weren't in the texts. So, yeah, my confusion was complete... that is until I read some of the replies from the actual learned folks like @Tumah and @Ingledsva - and saw how he simply cut those texts out of a greater context that had nothing to do with what was being claimed - and with the additional context and explanations, it all became much more clear. I wasn't seeing the things being claimed because they weren't there.

In conclusion, @Intojoy - if you're looking to help people realize something, or are looking to broaden the base of people who believe whatever it is you believe - you're completely and utterly failing. Based on what's presented here I simply can't conscionably take you seriously. Add on top of that some of your flippant and/or "poor-attempt-at-insult" replies and... well... I think I already mentioned something about "failing". So yeah.

 

[Ingledsva]

Child Please

You didn't reply to my post about THE BRANCH - whom you were erroneously claiming was another verse about a future Jesus.

Joshua is THE BRANCH.

Zec 6:11 Then take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set them upon the head of Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest;

Zec 6:12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:

That BRANCH - JOSHUA son of Josedech.


Zec 6:13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

Zec 6:14 And the crowns shall be to Helem, and to Tobijah, and to Jedaiah, and to Hen the son of Zephaniah, for a memorial in the temple of the LORD.

Zec 7:1 And it came to pass in the fourth year of king Darius, that the word of the LORD came unto Zechariah in the fourth day of the ninth month, even in Chisleu;

Remember Zechariah - from Isaiah 8:2

Isa 8:2 And I took unto me faithful witnesses to record, Uriah the priest, and Zechariah the son of Jeberechiah.

Every Tanakh verse you have claimed was about Jesus - has been proven otherwise.

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[Tumah]

You didn't reply to my post about THE BRANCH - whom you were erroneously claiming was another verse about a future Jesus.

Joshua is THE BRANCH.

Zec 6:11 Then take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set them upon the head of Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest;

Zec 6:12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:

That BRANCH - JOSHUA son of Josedech.


Zec 6:13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

Zec 6:14 And the crowns shall be to Helem, and to Tobijah, and to Jedaiah, and to Hen the son of Zephaniah, for a memorial in the temple of the LORD.

Zec 7:1 And it came to pass in the fourth year of king Darius, that the word of the LORD came unto Zechariah in the fourth day of the ninth month, even in Chisleu;

Remember Zechariah - from Isaiah 8:2

Isa 8:2 And I took unto me faithful witnesses to record, Uriah the priest, and Zechariah the son of Jeberechiah.

Every Tanakh verse you have claimed was about Jesus - has been proven otherwise.

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Actually, if you look in Zech. 3:8, you'll see that Joshua the high priest is not the same as the "branch". there you have G-d telling Joshua that He will bring the "branch". It doesn't change your point though, because there is someone who did fulfill these prophecies: Zerubabel. And that kind of fits much better with the

Spoiler: don't want to say this word in front of the Christian

context.

In all of the accounts in the Hebrew Bible that mention Zerubbabel, he is always associated with the high priest who returned with him, Joshua (Jeshua) son of Jozadak (Jehozadak). Together, these two men led the first wave of Jewish returnees from exile and began to rebuild the Temple (Ezra).