Messiah Ben Joseph versus Messiah Ben David

[omega2xx]

If you mean all works as a result of our evil inclinations, I can say, you are right. If you mean works of Satan, I tell you, you are wrong for speaking under Christian preconceived notions.

The are not preconceived, It was an literal event in my life. I was converted after I had decided never to go to church again.

 

[Ben Avraham]

The are not preconceived, It was an literal event in my life. I was converted after I had decided never to go to church again.

And did you leave Christianity as you converted? I don't care what you converted to. If it was to another church, your
Christian preconceived notions continued being the problem.

 

[omega2xx]

And did you leave Christianity as you converted? I don't care what you converted to. If it was to another church, your
Christian preconceived notions continued being the problem.

I was a non-believer and became a believer. I did not know enough to have any preconceived ideas. When it came to the Bi ble and Christians theology, I was a blank page.

 

[Ben Avraham]

I was a non-believer and became a believer. I did not know enough to have any preconceived ideas. When it came to the Bible and Christians theology, I was a blank page.

And now! How much is written in the page of your mind? Is that which you have been sharing with me in this discussion? If it is, better to erase every thing back into the former blank page.

 

[omega2xx]

And now! How much is written in the page of your mind? Is that which you have been sharing with me in this discussion? If it is, better to erase every thing back into the former blank page.

I couldn't if I wanted to. It would be better if you would accept the truths of God's inspired word found in the NT.

I know this is insulting to you, but sometimes the truth hurts. No one can understand the OT correctly without understanding the NT. That is why you have to twist the Scriptures of Is 53, and try to make the Jews the suffering servant.

There is no OT way that which has spot and blemish can be the sacrifice for man' sins. You are trying to do what the people of Malachi's time were doing---Mal 1:13-14. God says He will not accept such offerings(Mal 1:10)

 

[Ben Avraham]

I couldn't if I wanted to. It would be better if you would accept the truths of God's inspired word found in the NT.

I know this is insulting to you, but sometimes the truth hurts. No one can understand the OT correctly without understanding the NT. That is why you have to twist the Scriptures of Is 53, and try to make the Jews the suffering servant.

There is no OT way that which has spot and blemish can be the sacrifice for man' sins. You are trying to do what the people of Malachi's time were doing---Mal 1:13-14. God says He will not accept such offerings(Mal 1:10)

I have already accepted the truth in the gospel of Jesus which was the Tanach. Did you know that Jesus never even dreamed that the NT would ever rise? Every time Jesus referred to the Truth of the Word of God, he had the Tanach in mind. Hence, if you read Psalms 147:19,20 the Word of God was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth.

 

[omega2xx]

I have already accepted the truth in the gospel of Jesus which was the Tanach. Did you know that Jesus never even dreamed that the NT would ever rise? Every time Jesus referred to the Truth of the Word of God, he had the Tanach in mind. Hence, if you read Psalms 147:19,20 the Word of God was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth.

God is not a respecter of persons. He did not give something as important as His word to just one group. How silly.

 

[Ben Avraham]

God is not a respecter of persons. He did not give something as important as His word to just one group. How silly.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Okay, but don't get upset when I charge Paul with having been a psychopath liar because, the meaning of what you are saying is that the Psalmist who wrote Psalm 147:19,20 was a liar since you don't acknowledge that what he said in that text is true. BTW, with regard to your denial that God is respecter
of people, how do you translate what is written in Exodus 19:5,6?

 

[omega2xx]

Okay, but don't get upset when I charge Paul with having been a psychopath liar because, the meaning of what you are saying is that the Psalmist who wrote Psalm 147:19,20 was a liar since you don't acknowledge that what he said in that text is true. BTW, with regard to your denial that God is respecter
of people, how do you translate what is written in Exodus 19:5,6?

I never get upset when someone speaking from their ignorance cant prove what they say.

God gave his word to the Jews and they were to give it to the world.

To bad Israel did not keep God's covenants, so they were never made a kingdom of priest. Today Christians are God priests. No only that, we are a holy priesthood and CHOSEN by God---I Pet 2:9
If you think God's plan included ignoring the Gentiles, you are sadly mistaken. When God promises to make Abram the father of many nations, that included the Gentiles. :When God made that covenant, there were no Jews.

 

[Ben Avraham]

I never get upset when someone speaking from their ignorance cant prove what they say. God gave his word to the Jews and they were to give it to the world.

To bad Israel did not keep God's covenants, so they were never made a kingdom of priest. Today Christians are God priests. No only that, we are a holy priesthood and CHOSEN by God---I Pet 2:9 If you think God's plan included ignoring the Gentiles, you are sadly mistaken. When God promises to make Abram the father of many nations, that included the Gentiles. :When God made that covenant, there were no Jews.

That's exactly what I meant: God gave His Word to the Jews and they were to give It to the world. In other words, they were to activate the role of Immanuel which means God with the world. Hence, Isaiah said that Israel had been assigned as light unto the world, or to the Gentiles. (Isaiah 42:6) Yes, Israel did not keep God's Covenant but Judah does. Otherwise, the Lord would not have rejected Israel and confirmed Judah to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Psalms 78:67-70; I Kings 11:36; Jeremiah 31:35-37) So, I am sorry to rain on your parade but, Christians have not replaced Israel; Judah did it by the will of HaShem.

 

[omega2xx]

That's exactly what I meant: God gave His Word to the Jews and they were to give It to the world. In other words, they were to activate the role of Immanuel which means God with the world. Hence, Isaiah said that Israel had been assigned as light unto the world, or to the Gentiles. (Isaiah 42:6) Yes, Israel did not keep God's Covenant but Judah does. Otherwise, the Lord would not have rejected Israel and confirmed Judah to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Psalms 78:67-70; I Kings 11:36; Jeremiah 31:35-37) So, I am sorry to rain on your parade but, Christians have not replaced Israel; Judah did it by the will of HaShem.

Immanuel does not mean God with the world, it means "God with us."

Isa 42:6 says no such thing.

Judah did not either ---Amos 2:4

I agree Christians have not replaced Israel, but we have taken over the responsibility to get God's word to the world. WE are to be His witness to the remotest parts of the world(Acts 1:8).

 

[Ben Avraham]

Immanuel does not mean God with the world, it means "God with us." Isa 42:6 says no such thing. Judah did not either ---Amos 2:4 I agree Christians have not replaced Israel, but we have taken over the responsibility to get God's word to the world. WE are to be His witness to the remotest parts of the world(Acts 1:8).

[/quote]

Isaiah 42:6 - "I, the Lord, in My grace have summed you and I have grasped you in My hand. I created you and appointed you a Covenant People, a light of nations." Jesus must have read this text and, in his sermon of the Mount to a crowd of Jews, he said, "You are the light of the world." (Mat. 5:14) But this magnanimous attitude is possible only from another Jew. Wow! So you have taken over the responsibility to get God's Word to the world! This, if you ask me, is a declaration of Replacement Theology. Every time Jesus referred to God's Word, he had the Tanach in mind. Is that what you are getting to the world? Remember that Jesus never even dreamed the NT would ever rise as the founder of Christianity was still a child when Jesus passed away. (Acts 11:26)

 

[Ingledsva]

I couldn't if I wanted to. It would be better if you would accept the truths of God's inspired word found in the NT.

1. I know this is insulting to you, but sometimes the truth hurts. No one can understand the OT correctly without understanding the NT. That is why you have to twist the Scriptures of Is 53, and try to make the Jews the suffering servant.

2. There is no OT way that which has spot and blemish can be the sacrifice for man' sins. You are trying to do what the people of Malachi's time were doing---Mal 1:13-14. God says He will not accept such offerings(Mal 1:10)

1. LOL! There was no misunderstanding or twisting of the OT until Christians came along and tried to twist it.

As you were SHOWN, - Tanakh verses say the Suffering Servant is Israel.

2. Tanakh calls for a Messiah, - not a sacrificed Messiah.

Christians turned it into a sacrifice, AFTER the person they believed to be the Messiah, - was killed.

*

 

[Ingledsva]

Immanuel does not mean God with the world, it means "God with us."

...

You folks take this out of context, - then add your own nonsense.

Read it in context. They are at WAR. They are AFRAID. OUTNUMBERED.

THEY, - not future generations, - are given a sign.

The child/SIGN is called Immanuel, - God is with us.

The SIGN - is that YHVH is with them - in the war.

This has nothing to do with a future Jesus.

*

 

[Ben Avraham]

Immanuel does not mean God with the world, it means "God with us." Isa 42:6 says no such thing. Judah did not either ---Amos 2:4 I agree Christians have not replaced Israel, but we have taken over the responsibility to get God's word to the world. WE are to be His witness to the remotest parts of the world(Acts 1:8).

God with the Gentiles in the world through Israel. Job in the Tanach represents Israel and his three friends, the Gentiles. When Job was too sick, his three friends from the East came to dialogue with him for his consolation. The dialogue was about HaShem. At the end the Lord was displeased with Job's friends for having not spoken the truth about Him as Job did. So, they were required to sacrifice a burn offering for themselves but to be offered to HaShem through Job so that the Lord could bless them. That's the role of Immanuel God with Job's friends through Job aka God with the world through Israel. (Job 42:7,8)

 

[Ben Avraham]

1. LOL! There was no misunderstanding or twisting of the OT until Christians came along and tried to twist it. As you were SHOWN, - Tanakh verses say the Suffering Servant is Israel.2. Tanakh calls for a Messiah, - not a sacrificed Messiah. Christians turned it into a sacrifice, AFTER the person they believed to be the Messiah, - was killed. *

Ingledsva, we must admit, you are great! I totally agree with your post above. I couldn't have said it any better myself! All Jews, except the hyphenated ones surely agree with you! "Cal hakavod!"

 

[Ben Avraham]

I never get upset when someone speaking from their ignorance cant prove what they say. God gave his word to the Jews and they were to give it to the world. To bad Israel did not keep God's covenants, so they were never made a kingdom of priest. Today Christians are God priests. No only that, we are a holy priesthood and CHOSEN by God---I Pet 2:9 If you think God's plan included ignoring the Gentiles, you are sadly mistaken. When God promises to make Abram the father of many nations, that included the Gentiles. :When God made that covenant, there were no Jews.

So, as you say above, I am sadly mistaken to think that in God's plan, the Gentiles are not included! Are you positive about what you say here? If so, how do you explain that every time Jesus sent his disciples on a mission to spread the gospel of salvation, he would warn them not to take the way to the Gentiles, especially if they were Samaritans? If you don't believe this is true, who wrote Matthew 10:5,6? That's not something in the Tanach but in your own NT. If you deny it, you are denying your own NT.

 

[Ben Avraham]

God is not a respecter of persons. He did not give something as important as His word to just one group. How silly.

I think you simply do not believe in the gospel of Jesus which was the Tanach; only when it pleases your Christian preconceived notions.

 

[omega2xx]

1. LOL! There was no misunderstanding or twisting of the OT until Christians came along and tried to twist it.

It only seems twisted to those who lack understanding.

As you were SHOWN, - Tanakh verses say the Suffering Servant is Israel.

The Tanakh doe snot say that. That is a Jewish interpretation to avoid making Isa 53 a Messianic prophecy.

2.

Tanakh calls for a Messiah, - not a sacrificed Messiah.

Another Jewish interpretation.

Christians turned it into a sacrifice, AFTER the person they believed to be the Messiah, - was killed.

*

Isa 53 is definitely about someone dying for the sins of others. No Jew can qualify for that. Only Jesus was without spot or blemish.