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Merck covid drug linked to new virus mutations study says.

We Never Know

No Slack
Hmmm.....

Merck covid drug linked to new virus mutations study says.


"Merck & Co.’s Covid-19 pill is giving rise to new mutations of the virus in some patients, according to a study that underscores the risk of trying to intentionally alter the pathogen’s genetic code.

Some researchers worry the drug may create more contagious or health-threatening variations of Covid, which has killed more than 6.8 million people globally over the past three years.

Mutations linked to the use of Merck’s pill, Lagevrio, have been identified in viral samples taken from dozens of patients, according to a preprint study from researchers in the US and at the Francis Crick Institute, Imperial College London and other UK institutions.

The drug-linked mutations of the virus haven’t been shown to be more immune-evasive or lethal yet, according to the study published Friday without peer review on the medRxiv website. But their very existence highlights what some scientists say are potential risks in wider use of the drug, which was recently cleared in China."

Merck Covid Drug Linked to New Virus Mutations, Study Says
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
All virus and bacteria have the ability to build resistance to an antibiotic or vaccine. This isn't something nefarious about the pill or the vaccine. Just evolution at work. Also, don't trust anything that says "not peer reviewed yet".

"Please note: although documents are screened prior to posting, medRxiv preprints are not formally peer reviewed and any content or results should not be used for clinical medicine."

This is a huge problem with the way the media reports on "science", building on sensationalism or unqualified research.




Check out how fast these bacteria evolve antibiotic resistance given the right conditions, and a mega petri dish.

 

We Never Know

No Slack
All virus and bacteria have the ability to build resistance to an antibiotic or vaccine. This isn't something nefarious about the pill or the vaccine. Just evolution at work. Also, don't trust anything that says "not peer reviewed yet".

"Please note: although documents are screened prior to posting, medRxiv preprints are not formally peer reviewed and any content or results should not be used for clinical medicine."

This is a huge problem with the way the media reports on "science", building on sensationalism or unqualified research.




Check out how fast these bacteria evolve antibiotic resistance given the right conditions, and a mega petri dish.


From the link....

"Lagevrio works by creating mutations in the Covid genome that prevent the virus from replicating in the body, reducing the chances it will cause severe illness. Some scientists had warned before it was authorized in late 2021 that by virtue of how it works, the drug could give rise to mutations that could turn out to be problematic. The preprint paper has reawakened those worries about the Merck drug.

“There’s always been this underlying concern that it could contribute to a problem generating new variants,” said Jonathan Li, a virologist at Harvard Medical School and Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston. “This has largely been hypothetical, but this preprint validates a lot of those concerns.”
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
From the link....

"Lagevrio works by creating mutations in the Covid genome that prevent the virus from replicating in the body, reducing the chances it will cause severe illness. Some scientists had warned before it was authorized in late 2021 that by virtue of how it works, the drug could give rise to mutations that could turn out to be problematic. The preprint paper has reawakened those worries about the Merck drug.

“There’s always been this underlying concern that it could contribute to a problem generating new variants,” said Jonathan Li, a virologist at Harvard Medical School and Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston. “This has largely been hypothetical, but this preprint validates a lot of those concerns.”

Fair enough, but I'll still wait for a peer review, personally.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Fair enough, but I'll still wait for a peer review, personally.

Funny how now that covid restrictions are over, these things come to light.

Here's another study about masks.


A major new study shows that masks don't stop the spread of COVID

"The studies included were diverse. They covered epidemics as well as periods of low transmission. They covered rich countries and poor countries, suburban schools and inner-city neighborhoods, hospitals and villages.

Most important was what they had in common: They were all randomized controlled trials or at least cluster-RCTs. These are the gold standard for studies because they have the greatest chance of avoiding confounding factors. Non-randomized, non-controlled trials — for example, observational studies — can be compromised if, say, people become more likely to wear masks at times or places that already have higher rates of spread, or if people who wore masks were also more fastidious hand-washers.

So, what did the studies find?


For starters, hand-washing was effective in stopping the spread of these illnesses. That’s not surprising.

But here’s the most eye-opening finding: “Wearing masks in the community probably makes little or no difference to the outcome of influenza‐like illness/COVID‐19-like illness compared to not wearing masks.” In other words, masks didn't do much — if anything."

A major new study shows that masks don't stop the spread of COVID. Will the mandaters apologize?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
All virus and bacteria have the ability to build resistance to an antibiotic or vaccine. This isn't something nefarious about the pill or the vaccine. Just evolution at work. Also, don't trust anything that says "not peer reviewed yet".

"Please note: although documents are screened prior to posting, medRxiv preprints are not formally peer reviewed and any content or results should not be used for clinical medicine."

This is a huge problem with the way the media reports on "science", building on sensationalism or unqualified research.




Check out how fast these bacteria evolve antibiotic resistance given the right conditions, and a mega petri dish.

It appears that there is a hypothetical chance that the drug could cause mutations. It is very early but tests of the effective ingredient had one case that had "equivocal" results, The other showed no mutations. But that does not absolutely rule out the possibility:

Molnupiravir | COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines

The drug has a very limited use. It is for unvaccinated people that have not responded to other medications. Still with a widespread virus that could be tens of thousands of cases or more.
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
Funny how now that covid restrictions are over, these things come to light.

Here's another study about masks.


A major new study shows that masks don't stop the spread of COVID

"The studies included were diverse. They covered epidemics as well as periods of low transmission. They covered rich countries and poor countries, suburban schools and inner-city neighborhoods, hospitals and villages.

Most important was what they had in common: They were all randomized controlled trials or at least cluster-RCTs. These are the gold standard for studies because they have the greatest chance of avoiding confounding factors. Non-randomized, non-controlled trials — for example, observational studies — can be compromised if, say, people become more likely to wear masks at times or places that already have higher rates of spread, or if people who wore masks were also more fastidious hand-washers.

So, what did the studies find?


For starters, hand-washing was effective in stopping the spread of these illnesses. That’s not surprising.

But here’s the most eye-opening finding: “Wearing masks in the community probably makes little or no difference to the outcome of influenza‐like illness/COVID‐19-like illness compared to not wearing masks.” In other words, masks didn't do much — if anything."

A major new study shows that masks don't stop the spread of COVID. Will the mandaters apologize?

It's still in a significant minority, compared to the people that things such as vaccines and other COVID meds have helped, so that "things could get back to normal".

And of course those things are coming to light "now"; it takes time before we see long term trends with any vaccination or medication.

Nothing nefarious.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Funny how now that covid restrictions are over, these things come to light.

Here's another study about masks.


A major new study shows that masks don't stop the spread of COVID

"The studies included were diverse. They covered epidemics as well as periods of low transmission. They covered rich countries and poor countries, suburban schools and inner-city neighborhoods, hospitals and villages.

Most important was what they had in common: They were all randomized controlled trials or at least cluster-RCTs. These are the gold standard for studies because they have the greatest chance of avoiding confounding factors. Non-randomized, non-controlled trials — for example, observational studies — can be compromised if, say, people become more likely to wear masks at times or places that already have higher rates of spread, or if people who wore masks were also more fastidious hand-washers.

So, what did the studies find?


For starters, hand-washing was effective in stopping the spread of these illnesses. That’s not surprising.

But here’s the most eye-opening finding: “Wearing masks in the community probably makes little or no difference to the outcome of influenza‐like illness/COVID‐19-like illness compared to not wearing masks.” In other words, masks didn't do much — if anything."

A major new study shows that masks don't stop the spread of COVID. Will the mandaters apologize?
Funny how now that covid restrictions are over, these things come to light.

Here's another study about masks.


A major new study shows that masks don't stop the spread of COVID

"The studies included were diverse. They covered epidemics as well as periods of low transmission. They covered rich countries and poor countries, suburban schools and inner-city neighborhoods, hospitals and villages.

Most important was what they had in common: They were all randomized controlled trials or at least cluster-RCTs. These are the gold standard for studies because they have the greatest chance of avoiding confounding factors. Non-randomized, non-controlled trials — for example, observational studies — can be compromised if, say, people become more likely to wear masks at times or places that already have higher rates of spread, or if people who wore masks were also more fastidious hand-washers.

So, what did the studies find?


For starters, hand-washing was effective in stopping the spread of these illnesses. That’s not surprising.

But here’s the most eye-opening finding: “Wearing masks in the community probably makes little or no difference to the outcome of influenza‐like illness/COVID‐19-like illness compared to not wearing masks.” In other words, masks didn't do much — if anything."

A major new study shows that masks don't stop the spread of COVID. Will the mandaters apologize?
I linked the study itself in another thread and it does not quite say that. First off it was a meta-study. A study of studies. Almost all of them were for influenza, only two were for Covid. And even then the writers of that meta-study said that they did not have a lot of confidence in their findings. So no, it is way too early to ask for an apology.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Funny how now that covid restrictions are over, these things come to light.

Here's another study about masks.


A major new study shows that masks don't stop the spread of COVID

"The studies included were diverse. They covered epidemics as well as periods of low transmission. They covered rich countries and poor countries, suburban schools and inner-city neighborhoods, hospitals and villages.

Most important was what they had in common: They were all randomized controlled trials or at least cluster-RCTs. These are the gold standard for studies because they have the greatest chance of avoiding confounding factors. Non-randomized, non-controlled trials — for example, observational studies — can be compromised if, say, people become more likely to wear masks at times or places that already have higher rates of spread, or if people who wore masks were also more fastidious hand-washers.

So, what did the studies find?


For starters, hand-washing was effective in stopping the spread of these illnesses. That’s not surprising.

But here’s the most eye-opening finding: “Wearing masks in the community probably makes little or no difference to the outcome of influenza‐like illness/COVID‐19-like illness compared to not wearing masks.” In other words, masks didn't do much — if anything."

A major new study shows that masks don't stop the spread of COVID. Will the mandaters apologize?
No one serious about it claimed masks would stop it but rather reduce the chances of it spreading. That was science illiterate bozos who kept mishearing things, misrepeating things, and thought the scientists were just making it up as new things were learned.
 

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Hmmm.....

Merck covid drug linked to new virus mutations study says.


"Merck & Co.’s Covid-19 pill is giving rise to new mutations of the virus in some patients, according to a study that underscores the risk of trying to intentionally alter the pathogen’s genetic code.

Some researchers worry the drug may create more contagious or health-threatening variations of Covid, which has killed more than 6.8 million people globally over the past three years.

Mutations linked to the use of Merck’s pill, Lagevrio, have been identified in viral samples taken from dozens of patients, according to a preprint study from researchers in the US and at the Francis Crick Institute, Imperial College London and other UK institutions.

The drug-linked mutations of the virus haven’t been shown to be more immune-evasive or lethal yet, according to the study published Friday without peer review on the medRxiv website. But their very existence highlights what some scientists say are potential risks in wider use of the drug, which was recently cleared in China."

Merck Covid Drug Linked to New Virus Mutations, Study Says
More fear mongering.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
More fear mongering.
Yes, Blloomberg. It is a good thing that you have to have a subscription to read it. That made me dig on my own and it appears to be very overblown. A small hypothetical chance of mutations that could spread. Under lab test one rodent study that yielded "equivocal" results. another one with no sign of mutations.

Why do they try to scare people when it comes to methods of avoiding infection? I can't understand that mentality.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
Why do they try to scare people when it comes to methods of avoiding infection? I can't understand that mentality.
Fear is a great motivator. People in fear are more likely to be religious (I posted a study recently), more likely to want a strong authority and therefore more likely to vote right. Some differences between Europe and the US can be explained by the fact that US people are some of the most scared in the world.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Funny how now that covid restrictions are over, these things come to light.

Here's another study about masks.


A major new study shows that masks don't stop the spread of COVID

"The studies included were diverse. They covered epidemics as well as periods of low transmission. They covered rich countries and poor countries, suburban schools and inner-city neighborhoods, hospitals and villages.

Most important was what they had in common: They were all randomized controlled trials or at least cluster-RCTs. These are the gold standard for studies because they have the greatest chance of avoiding confounding factors. Non-randomized, non-controlled trials — for example, observational studies — can be compromised if, say, people become more likely to wear masks at times or places that already have higher rates of spread, or if people who wore masks were also more fastidious hand-washers.

So, what did the studies find?


For starters, hand-washing was effective in stopping the spread of these illnesses. That’s not surprising.

But here’s the most eye-opening finding: “Wearing masks in the community probably makes little or no difference to the outcome of influenza‐like illness/COVID‐19-like illness compared to not wearing masks.” In other words, masks didn't do much — if anything."

A major new study shows that masks don't stop the spread of COVID. Will the mandaters apologize?
Another highly misleading report, stinking of American culture war garbage.

I quote in full the authors' conclusions from the paper:

" The high risk of bias in the trials, variation in outcome measurement, and relatively low adherence with the interventions during the studies hampers drawing firm conclusions. There were additional RCTs during the pandemic related to physical interventions but a relative paucity given the importance of the question of masking and its relative effectiveness and the concomitant measures of mask adherence which would be highly relevant to the measurement of effectiveness, especially in the elderly and in young children.

There is uncertainty about the effects of face masks. The low to moderate certainty of evidence means our confidence in the effect estimate is limited, and that the true effect may be different from the observed estimate of the effect. The pooled results of RCTs did not show a clear reduction in respiratory viral infection with the use of medical/surgical masks. There were no clear differences between the use of medical/surgical masks compared with N95/P2 respirators in healthcare workers when used in routine care to reduce respiratory viral infection. Hand hygiene is likely to modestly reduce the burden of respiratory illness, and although this effect was also present when ILI and laboratory‐confirmed influenza were analysed separately, it was not found to be a significant difference for the latter two outcomes. Harms associated with physical interventions were under‐investigated.

There is a need for large, well‐designed RCTs addressing the effectiveness of many of these interventions in multiple settings and populations, as well as the impact of adherence on effectiveness, especially in those most at risk of ARIs. "

In essence this says the data is inconclusive but does not show evidence that mask-wearing is effective.

So, rather obviously, an "apology" is not in order.

It beggars belief that Americans get so wound up about what was a perfectly reasonable, cheap and simple, countermeasure that was not intrusive or onerous in the least. They are apparently forgetting that we were in the grip of something new and potentially catastrophic and that the medical authorities had very little data to go on. So various things were tried on the basis they were likely to have some benefit, even if proof was lacking.

That was totally rational to do. In fact it would have been negligent of public health not to try.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
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