Menstruation question

[Pegg]

Hello,

When i was in Bali a couple of years ago i saw a sign on a hindu temple which said 'no women menstruating allowed inside' (or something along those lines)

So i was curious about how the priests police this rule. How do they know if a woman is menstruating? Do they ask everyone before they enter?
And if a woman did go in during menstruation, what would be the result?

Im not asking this to be critical of the practice...but i am curious how anyone would know a woman is menstruating when menstruation is not outwardly visible.

 

[Vinayaka]

Hi Pegg. Thanks for moving it. I have to go out soon so will just answer briefly for the moment.

Only certain priests who are trained mystically to see auras, etc. would be able to notice it. Sometimes other devotees would notice too. There would be a 'drop' in the vibration of the temple in the same way as if someone came in with shoes, or an angry argument broke out. Sensitive people would feel it.

There is no 'policing'. It's left up to the individual to respect the policies of the temple. Most people would. Of course some wouldn't.

In temples where the priests are sensitive to it, there would be a closing of the temple for a day or two, and special purification rituals would take place. In temples where there is less mysticism involved, I would doubt that much would happen at all. But then generally those kinds of temples wouldn't post the information. The Balinese, as you might expect are particularly mystical.

 

[Pegg]

thankyou for the response.

So when you say they use mysticism, do you mean a form of divination or some kind of occult type practices??

 

[Maya3]

All temples don´t have this rule. I know mine doesn´t.
To be perfectly honest I think this rule is unnecessary. If anything, talking about spiritual vibrations they would be much more disturbing BEFORE the period comes. I´m fidgety, unfocused, and irritated before my period, once I get it I feel calm and peaceful again.

In my opinion, this rule probably came about before the invention of proper sanitary pads and tampons, if there is a risk that there will be blood on the floor at the temple due to inability to keep the menstruation where it is supposed to be, then yes, I could understand this rule. Now in 2014, no.

Maya

 

[Vinayaka]

thankyou for the response.

So when you say they use mysticism, do you mean a form of divination or some kind of occult type practices??

Mostly just in the belief in inner beings, and vibrations. Bali is quite well known that way, with the various rituals, the reincarnation patterns etc. In the mystic temple, there is an inside, a barrier, and an outside, just like a circle.

So just like there are certain areas of a person's body, or the king's palace, etc., certain areas are 'out of bounds'. As Maya mentioned, it is only applicable and followed in the temples that adhere to particular customs. The customs on such things vary widely from sect to sect. Most people would adhere to the 'when in Rome..." guideline.

Bali does stand out as rather unique, and is not that representative of mainstream Hinduism. Here's an article: https://www.hinduismtoday.com/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=5267

 

[George-ananda]

Only certain priests who are trained mystically to see auras, etc. would be able to notice it. Sometimes other devotees would notice too. There would be a 'drop' in the vibration of the temple in the same way as if someone came in with shoes, or an angry argument broke out. Sensitive people would feel it.

I would like to believe this but do you really think there are priests that are that sensitive to vibrations and auras?

The parapsychologist in me is coming out here. Do you think priests can really detect the aura differences and vibration changes caused by menstruating women significantly above chance?

I would like to believe this is true and win the Randi million dollar challenge.

 

[Aupmanyav]

It's left up to the individual to respect the policies of the temple. Most people would. Of course some wouldn't.

The community with which we lived in Jodhpur (Srimali Brahmins - Rajasthan/Gujarat border) were/are very conscious about this. The woman would not cook food, would sit outside the kitchen, would not even dress the vegetables, would not conduct rituals, no bath, no change of clothes, would not go to the temple, would not sleep with her husband. But I think, with nothing to do, it was/is a much needed rest time for the woman, sort of a long weekend, just gossip with members of the house or visitors, which was/is not prohibited . I have nothing against that.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I would like to believe this is true and win the Randi million dollar challenge.

A peon in my office could read the vibrations. He would guess generally very correctly if my wife and myself had sex the previous night or not. I do not know how.

 

[George-ananda]

A peon in my office could read the vibrations. He would guess generally very correctly if my wife and myself had sex the previous night or not. I do not know how.

I am seriously interested.

But with your brand of materialist-atheism there are no invisible vibrations nor the capacity for one to read them. And none known to western science.

My intellectual curiosity would not let it go as a light-hearted thing.

 

[Vinayaka]

I would like to believe this but do you really think there are priests that are that sensitive to vibrations and auras?

Yes I do. The well trained Brahmin priests know a ton of stuff. In a kumbabhishkham, for example, the chief priest is usually silent. This is because he needs to concentrate more to get all the inner stuff done. There is justified reason for a 'priest only' policy about moolasthanams.

Chidambaram, a very famous Tamil temple, has had to close on occasion. I have a close friend who lives maybe a half mile away. He told me about a time when the priests all went scurrying around saying, "The temple is spinning." and asked the entire crowd to leave. He found out later why, and this was the reason.

Of course, anyone is free to not believe me, or I am free to not believe my friend. Please, I'm not trying to start a debate on this topic. Obviously, people have differing views. Indeed some people are far more sensitive to vibrations than others, and that idea goes far beyond this custom.

 

[Vinayaka]

A peon in my office could read the vibrations. He would guess generally very correctly if my wife and myself had sex the previous night or not. I do not know how.

That too. He was either reading, or intuiting auras. Then again, it may just have been your mood.

 

[Vinayaka]

My intellectual curiosity would not let it go as a light-hearted thing.

Generally speaking, intellectual curiousity dies not jive well with mysticism. Generally, it denies mysticism for not being logical.

 

[Tumah]

If I may, I just want to say that there are Jewish sources that suggest there used to be a somewhat universal sensitivity to menstruation. I don't find it difficult to believe your priests are sensitive to it at all.

 

[Vinayaka]

If I may, I just want to say that there are Jewish sources that suggest there used to be a somewhat universal sensitivity to menstruation. I don't find it difficult to believe your priests are sensitive to it at all.

Thank you. In this discussion, and trust me, I've had many, I generally eventually have to point out that we Hindus aren't the only ones that have some sort of custom in this regard. But this time a Jewish person beat me to it.

 

[George-ananda]

Generally speaking, intellectual curiousity dies not jive well with mysticism. Generally, it denies mysticism for not being logical.

You may be reading me wrong. I'm on your side on this. I'm a believer.

My frustration is probably because I spend hours upon hours debating on RF with atheist-materialist who say there is no evidence for the paranormal. And this would qualify as paranormal in my and their book.

Now this is something that a scientific investigation can be done on. Why doesn't it happen? You might answer these priests aren't concerned with what others think. But such a study can be done by a respectful parapsychologist and open up the minds of good people who refuse to believe in things beyond the known physical realm.

Or do you think that even if a parapsychologist could show incredible odds against chance, the usual hard-core skeptics will be all about how flawed the tests were.

Sometimes I wonder if the higher beings in their greater wisdom do not want scientific proof universally accepted at this time.

For some reason I've always had a fascination with parapsychology although to most people it's just a passing thing.

 

[George-ananda]

I'm sorry if my previous post is a little oof-topic. I'll start a new thread if it goes much farther.

Now to the main topic:

My modern western enculturation leads me to think that making an issue over menstruating women seems primitive. But these perspectives are built from a mentality that only physical things are real. Things like auras, vibrations of people, vibrations in a temple, etc. are beliefs of more primitive people.

I now believe in western science and eastern spiritual teachings. My question is why menstruating would cause bad vibrations and pollute a temple? Are there any explanations out there?

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

Now this is something that a scientific investigation can be done on. Why doesn't it happen?

Let me take a crack at this for a moment. V already knows my views on the subject in general but I have a thought as to the "How?" of it. I"m not a scientist, just an observer of human behavior.

We've all experienced people who either "light up a room" or "bring a room down" simply by walking in. They don't even have to say anything. Maybe it's their posture, eye contact (or lack thereof).

These people, one or way or another, have a strong energy. We don't really have a scientific term for this kind of thing, but I'd bet most people know what I'm talking about.

Now think about a woman having her period. She's likely feeling uncomfortable, grumpy, lethargic, touchy about things she normally wouldn't care about. (symptoms vary of course.)

Now a days, even with medicine to help symptoms, I can imagine a woman going through her monthy cycle would give off certain "vibes". The less perceptive might not really know why, but they can feel she's a bit off.

In this sense, I can accept that it is possible for individuals to sense this in a woman. In the same way you can tell who is a confident, happy individual just by being around them and not exchanging words. (Assuming you have some level of social awareness)

That being said, that makes menstruation no different than being off your game for any other reason. I have had bad days at temple, simply because I woke up on the wrong side of the bed, or couldn't stop worrying about someone. If we all avoided temple when our settings were off, they'd be empty, IMO.

That being said, I can appreciate if women adhere to this custom out of a sense of personal duty or fulfillment. I"m not gonna stop them, and no one else should. To each their own.

:camp:

 

[George-ananda]

Let me take a crack at this for a moment. V already knows my views on the subject in general but I have a thought as to the "How?" of it. I"m not a scientist, just an observer of human behavior.

We've all experienced people who either "light up a room" or "bring a room down" simply by walking in. They don't even have to say anything. Maybe it's their posture, eye contact (or lack thereof).

Thank you for taking a crack.

I think a materialist scientist would say people take in information about other people through their five senses and this input triggers emotional responses in the recipients brain. And they would say that is the reason for the responses in other people.

But these materialist scientists would say the terms 'energy' and 'vibrations' are just figures of speech and that there is really no such thing.

(Again I don't agree with materialist scientists but I would like to see a scientific study supporting your views).

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

Thank you for taking a crack.

I think a materialist scientist would say people take in information about other people through their five senses and this input triggers emotional responses in the recipients brain. And they would say that is the reason for the responses in other people.

But these materialist scientists would say the terms 'energy' and 'vibrations' are just figures of speech and that there is really no such thing.

(Again I don't agree with materialist scientists but I would like to see a scientific study supporting your views).

This is true, for our assumptions can also be wrong. The seemingly confident person may be posturing in order to hide a sense of insecurity. It's not until more complicated interactions take place that we can have a chance of knowing for sure.

:camp:

 

[Vinayaka]

George, the custom applies to all blood, not just menstrual blood. I recently missed 9 days from temple (including Sivaratri, the most important festival of the year for me) for having a nosebleed, and that having it drain down the back of my throat. It includes all open sores. I haven't read closely about Bali. I do know they do animal sacrifice, but my bet all that is done 'outside' of the temple's psychic bubble and that would be to appease the 'elementals'.

But again, it really isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. All Agamic temples have a once every 12 year cleansing, maybe comparable to the annual cleansing fast some people do.

As far a s science goes, no Hindu needs anyone to prove something they already believe in, and I seriously doubt that science can yet detect such subtle energies.

Now, as far as westerners go when they first hear about this custom, well ... it varies a lot. Some just conclude that Hinduism isn't for them, other think it makes total sense, and there is a multitude of belief in between those two ends of the spectrum.