Men Without Work

[PureX]

What if someone is unable to work at all due to an issue like a disability?

My question would be why are the rates of people with these kinds of unemployable disabilities increasing so much in the last few decades? I have nothing against helping people with disabilities survive when they can't work, but why are there so many more of them, now, than in the past?

 

[Debater Slayer]

My question would be why are the rates of people with these kinds of unemployable disabilities increasing so much in the last few decades? I have nothing against helping people with disabilities survive when they can't work, but why are there so many more of them, now, than in the past?

I don't claim to know the answer, but I suspect the solution wouldn't be for the state to simply stop giving aid to all disabled people or those who can't work.

 

[JustGeorge]

My question would be why are the rates of people with these kinds of unemployable disabilities increasing so much in the last few decades? I have nothing against helping people with disabilities survive when they can't work, but why are there so many more of them, now, than in the past?

I suspect part of it is being more aware of what constitutes as a disability.

Of course, there are also going to be more that exploit the system as these definitions expand, but I like to think that more that genuinely need it that would have fallen through the cracks 40 years ago are receiving some kind of assistance.

 

[Brickjectivity]

In the video there were references to 'Welfare' and family support. Eberstadt also mentioned many were on pain killers and perhaps they sell some of their medications. Otherwise I don't know how they survive....

Who supported me was family with meals and a room. I preferred to be on my own but they complained they were worried. I wanted to die and saw the sense in dying, but this would cause them to suffer. So I lingered and accepted their help. I could have begged hospitals, churches and the street for medical assistance but never did. I was not going to do that, and I think it was because as a man I somehow felt too much shame in asking for all of that. I suspect that many of the men in the data could be similar. They are hiding, perhaps trying to heal themselves. I can't give a full explanation and neither can the data.

My experience sounds to me exactly like the data he is presenting. In my case I have been working now for almost a year but was not working for many before that and had given up on having a place in society. Its interesting that the data mentioned does seem to reflect my experience of having a back injury which I could not get diagnosed, being on painkillers occasionally (advil in my case) and some kind of depression etc. It sounds like this is a man thing.

What about all of these guys in the data who are poor but not looking for work? Data says they consume entertainment day after day. They waste away in the dark while the world that needs them is having to do without them. Are they better off dead? Are they useless and without function in our society? No.

The presenter of the video says that so many non working men represents a depression-level crisis, and he actually compares Depression data to the modern numbers of men not looking for work which are comparable. He says that the impact is: "...slower economic growth, wider wealth gaps, bigger budget deficits, more welfare dependence, more public debt, more pressure on fragile families, less social mobility, less civil participation and a weaker polity for our nation..."

So everyone should try to go back to work.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Mrs Revolt used to suggest I look for work.
She had no success.
Now she's accepted that I'm retired.
I still occasionally move machinery for pay.
(Don't tell the cops...they'd want me to
get a commercial license & DOT number
for Mr Van.)

BTW, I invest in a manner that keeps friends
more productive & profitable by lending money
for equipment, facilities, items to resell.
Everyone wins. Go capitalism!

For those with the money to retire I say 'Retire'.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I have a couple of questions. One is how are they surviving if they are not 'working'? Humans everywhere have to work at something to survive. They have to procure the necessities of their survival in some way. So, if they are not participating in the global culture's current mechanisms for doing that, how are they doing it?

Then the next question of course is why are they doing it this way? And I'm sure there will be no one answer to that question. The list of reasons will likely be long and include all of the above, and then some.

And then finally, I have to ask if there is a better way? A way that would be more inclusive and more satisfactory to everyone involved?

I guess (but this is only one possible answer) that it is a sickness. It is a feeling of shame and uselessness which afflicts men and hooks into our natural self destructive tendencies. When someone sees that you are ill they may decide to try and convalesce you rather than simply cut you off. So we have a lot of men being taken care of who are not working. Someone who cares sees them shut down. Perhaps girlfriends, parents, friends or family take care of them; or perhaps they live off of a bank account. The presenter mentions that 2 out of 5 receive a disability check of some type at some point in their lives, so that also partially answers how they are getting food and lodgings.

 

[Wildswanderer]

If people who believe in "absolute truth" can't
even agree on what's true, what's so absolute
about it?
This evolved (barely) ape never needed truth
to be inspired to work. So your religion isn't
necessary.

The current situation says differently.

 

[Audie]

What if someone is unable to work at all due to an issue like a disability?

Obviously they should be caredfir but I don't think they are they are the topic.

 

[Audie]

I don't work, why should I

 

[Revoltingest]

There are many who are unable to carry their own weight...

This is obviously true.
So what's the point of stating it?

 

[Revoltingest]

Fortunately society now days isn't really like that.
If I weren't on disability I would be underemployed.
My medications cost thousands of dollars and would cost too much for be to buy with private insurance.
I'll take every goddamn government benefit I'm legally able to take.

That's really a separate issue from my
criticism of those unwilling to work.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't work, why should I

You're not living on the dole.
More power to ya!

 

[Revoltingest]

For those with the money to retire I say 'Retire'.

Some like work, eg, Mrs Revolt.

 

[Revoltingest]

The current situation says differently.

What one hears isn't necessarily what's said.

 

[Debater Slayer]

This is obviously true.
So what's the point of stating it?

That's really a separate issue from my
criticism of those unwilling to work.

So, to be clear, is it your position that state support should be withheld from those able to work but unwilling to rather than everyone who doesn't work (e.g., people with debilitating mental illness)? Or is there a more accurate representation of your stance here?

 

[Revoltingest]

So, to be clear, is it your position that state support should be withheld from those able to work but unwilling to rather than everyone who doesn't work (e.g., people with debilitating mental illness)? Or is there a more accurate representation of your stance here?

I'll be even clearer...
If someone is able but unwilling to work,
I don't want my tax dollars supporting them.
We should not incentivize sloth, & the
consequent sub-culture of depnedence.

If you disagree, please explain why it's
better to support them.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I'll be even clearer...
If someone is able but unwilling to work,
I don't want my tax dollars supporting them.
We should not incentivize sloth, & a the
consequent sub-culture of depnedence.

If you disagree, please explain why it's
better to support them.

I don't disagree. I would, however, want to be absolutely sure they were indeed unwilling rather than unable to work. Having a robust system in place to answer that question without making application for social welfare overly bureaucratic might be a difficult balance to strike.

 

[Audie]

You're not living on the dole.
More power to ya!

Plus not very manly, and it's about men
not working

 

[Audie]

What makes my response is completely weird?

The author?

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

That's really a separate issue from my
criticism of those unwilling to work.

But is it really? Many people that are disabled have to take expensive medications they couldn't afford if they weren't on Medicaid. Try to realize the big picture and not just your libertarian scope of view.