dawny0826
Mother Heathen
Who are you asking?
I'll reply anyway.
God placed a curse on BOTH man and woman. There was no inequality factor.
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Men have authority over women
- Thread starter Prometheus
- Start date
Who are you asking?
I'll reply anyway.
God placed a curse on BOTH man and woman. There was no inequality factor.
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
What about it?
It was God's design that man take charge of the household. As man evolved in his/her relationship with God...and we entered a new covenant with Christ Jesus (see New Testament)...Christ informed us that marriage was an equal union. I have no reason to believe that the union wasn't equal from the start.
Woman was cursed with the pain of child birth and monthly bleeding. Man was cursed with the job to take care of his family and wife and provide for his wife and family by working his arse off for everything that he ate, used, etc. Woman had to rely on hubby for essentials....to survive.
As daddyholland explained...you can't gripe over one passage...the Bible tells a story of man's relationship with God and how it has evolved.
I'm bound to a different covenant than my Jewish brothers and sisters are. I've been called to love. Christ instructed us each to LOVE each other...husband & wife, sister & brother, neighbor & neighbor, etc.
And when we love, we fufill the law to the fullest.
God ordained that man be head of the household. He also ordained that man and wife treat each other with respect and love. When man and wife treat each other with respect and love...everything falls into place.
The Christian marriage wasn't designed to be an oppressive marriage.
Does that answer your question at all?
Prometheus
Semper Perconctor
You're still avoiding the question. I've never denied there is love and respect in a marriage. The point is that there is not equality. The man has the authority. What the man says goes. He is the ruler. What I'd like to know is why having a penis makes you so fit to rule over your wife in God's eyes?
This isn't about oppression. This is about why a man, only because he is a man, deserves to be the head of the household. Can you not see the sexism?
This isn't about oppression. This is about why a man, only because he is a man, deserves to be the head of the household. Can you not see the sexism?
Mustard Seed
Jack of all trades... :)
Ohhh... I see...
This is a "I want to argue with you OP" :sarcastic
Go ahead, take your frustrations out...
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
There IS equality.
As Christians entered into a new covenant with Christ...the rules were simple...man and wife are equal partners in a marriage. EQUAL.
Penis nor vagina does a ruler make in marriage.
Prometheus
Semper Perconctor
Well, this is a debate forum. Should we not argue in a debate forum? Also, should I not be frustrated that half the people on earth believe in a sexist God?
Reread Genesis 3:16, please.
You've already admitted that God ordained the man to be the head of the household. How can you claim there is equality while simultaneously stating that one sex rules over the other?
I am an employee and I have a boss. I understand we are equals as human beings, but we are not equals on matters pertaining to my job. When it comes to my profession, he is my ruler. I'm okay with that because he has earned it with experience in the field. It would be okay if God put authority in the hands of people based on their qualifications. However, he put authority in the hands of men simply because they are men. What about men makes them so deserving of this position? Why can't a woman be the head of the household?
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
On the contrary, the message of Christianity is that God is working out the complete redemption of men and women, correcting the disunity of male and female which occured in the Garden of Eden.
Galatians 3:22-29 22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
For the true Christian, there is not "male and female" with the female subservient to the male in anything, but we are all approached the same by God, who completely healed us in Christ Jesus.
Genesis 3:14-19 14 The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, cursed are you above all livestock and above all beasts of the field; on your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life. 15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel." 16 To the woman he said, "I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." 17 And to Adam he said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, 'You shall not eat of it,' cursed is the ground because of you; in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life; 18 thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you; and you shall eat the plants of the field. 19 By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return."
For Christians, every curse is lifted by Jesus Christ: He is the son of the woman (Mary, the new Eve), who crushed the snake's head with his heel.
Mustard Seed
Jack of all trades... :)
Well debating and arguing are two different things....but we can "debate" that on another thread.
( sorry if I've gone off topic )As for your other statement: It is only your opinion that God is a sexist God. This is what you have interpreted and though I don't have the figures....I can guarantee that half the people in the world don't believe this.
It's all about interpretation....this is what you have come up with. Does not make it true.
dawny0826 is making some excellent points...which you are not commenting on.
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
I also told you that we entered a NEW covenant with Christ. And Christ stated that man and wife become ONE when they marry.
Explain to me what you aren't understanding about the concept of ONENESS in marriage?
Prometheus
Semper Perconctor
Well debating and arguing are two different things....but we can "debate" that on another thread.
Debate:
1. To consider something; deliberate.
2. To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.
3. To engage in a formal discussion or argument.
4. To fight or quarell.
They are the same thing.
Sexism:
1. Discrimination based on gender, especially discrimination against women.
2. Attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender.
Sexism.
I'd comment on them if they had anything to do with my question.
If there is a new covenant that removed this curse from women, why do they still have pain in childbirth?
Mustard Seed
Jack of all trades... :)
Well I can answer this one......when ( for example ) a ten pound baby comes out a small hole...I would think its only natural to feel pain. :yes:
In fact, I personally don't even take that verse literally and that is my whole point. The Bible has never been meant to read literally all the way through. That's just my opinion though. I feel there's more to the Bible than just word....there's symbols, parables, stories, etc.; strewn throughout the Bible....so that we my (hopefully) get its true message.
His message: God loves us and he wants us to love him back. He also has a purpose and meaning for our lives....which you can find in his word.
This is my take on it anyways.
darnell
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
Prometheus,
Again, you're taking one verse, and ignoring completely the journey that man has embarked on with God from creation to present.
As I've stated repeatedly (and have provided scripture)...marriage is not a sexist union. Man is not given totalitarian dominion over his wife. Yes, a woman is to respect her husband but that respect is to be reciprocated.
It makes complete sense for Adam and the men of that time period to have dominion over their wives. Their wives DEPENDED on their husbands in a manner that women now do not.
This doesn't mean that God had an issue with women. Obviously, he thought much of women as He EQUALLY extends salvation to women as well.
Show me in the New Testament of the Bible, where the marriage union is described as an unbalanced, sexist union? Move beyond the Old Testament and into the New because that's the covenant that Christians live under/by at present.
We are human. We brought sin upon ourselves and therefore are unclean. Men will continue to pull muscles while working...women will continue to be pained during childbirth. Life will continue to have crappy moments for ALL PARTIES involved.
Christ didn't come to make this life easy for us or to remove every burden and obstacle from our path. He came to provide a means for us to be cleansed of the sin that brought upon our filth (and curses).
Again, you're taking one verse, and ignoring completely the journey that man has embarked on with God from creation to present.
As I've stated repeatedly (and have provided scripture)...marriage is not a sexist union. Man is not given totalitarian dominion over his wife. Yes, a woman is to respect her husband but that respect is to be reciprocated.
It makes complete sense for Adam and the men of that time period to have dominion over their wives. Their wives DEPENDED on their husbands in a manner that women now do not.
This doesn't mean that God had an issue with women. Obviously, he thought much of women as He EQUALLY extends salvation to women as well.
Show me in the New Testament of the Bible, where the marriage union is described as an unbalanced, sexist union? Move beyond the Old Testament and into the New because that's the covenant that Christians live under/by at present.
We are human. We brought sin upon ourselves and therefore are unclean. Men will continue to pull muscles while working...women will continue to be pained during childbirth. Life will continue to have crappy moments for ALL PARTIES involved.
Christ didn't come to make this life easy for us or to remove every burden and obstacle from our path. He came to provide a means for us to be cleansed of the sin that brought upon our filth (and curses).
Prometheus
Semper Perconctor
1 Corinthians 11:3, 7-9
3. But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
7. For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
8. For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.
9. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
Ephesians 5:22-24
22. Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Colossians 3:18
18. Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
Titus 2:4-5
4. That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5. To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
1 Peter 3:1, 5-7
1. Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
5. For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
6. Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
7. Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
It does if subjection is on the basis of gender.
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
I don't believe it was intended in an oppressive sense. When there's mutual respect and God is placed first in a marriage...where's the problem? It just...works.
I don't know...I'm drinking, so what do I know?
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Well, it was given to a completely different culture, and I assure you that it most certainly was oppressive by today's standards.
The oppressive nature of the text has been brutally imposed by Christians for centuries, and it was not Christianity that changed the way that women relate to men, but from outside criticisms from thinkers who criticized (and criticize) Christians for their sexism. Some modern examples would be from Frued, Neitzsche, and Bertrand Russell. Without their criticisms, Christianity would still be in darkness.