Men and Abortion

[Fool]

That's my point most of us aren't doing it for procreation. It cements a relationship.

Therefore equal access to abortion services and contraception are a societal must.

Unless we want to be overrun by people who can't afford them. And more and more people end up on the streets or with CPS.

I'm with you on that.

 

[idea]

Nope, that's a court thing. The courts are heavily in favor of women (even incompetent ones), to keep their kids.

I spent 2 years fighting an ex for custody of my daughter because she repeatedly would "go to treatment", get her back, and then have her taken again when it came to light she was still doing drugs.

Despite all this, I had to jump through hoops and beg and plead for them to take her rights, so I could gain custodianship.

You are the exception.

My mom worked in social services tracking dads down, actually started a fatherhood initiative to try and get more dads involved in their kids lives. Most dads avoid, evade, abandon, are mia.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Should men who have casual sex and father a child be required, made law, to financially and physically raise their unwanted and or unplanned babies? forced to coparent?

Perhaps if one is religiously/therefore responsibly minded.

The issue here is that skeptics not only say the man can help cause a pregnancy then skip away in freedom, the woman can abort the child and do the same.

 

[Fool]

Perhaps if one is religiously/therefore responsibly minded.

The issue here is that skeptics not only say the man can help cause a pregnancy then skip away in freedom, the woman can abort the child and do the same.

do you honestly and realistically believe that women enjoy having abortions? that it's that easy and that simple?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

While the link you provided narrows its data pool for the whole purpose of getting away with the hyperbolic headline. Those types of headlines are losing or have lost their effectiveness, due to over implementation.
With that rant out of the way, I think the following is much more pragmatic and accurate in its depiction of the ineptitude of the US to navigate through the terrain of this topic ethically or respectfully:
Maternal mortality rates by country worldwide 2019 | Statista
I apologize on behalf of the failures that represent me, as a US citizen. I wish I could represent more than just my own vote, I believe in everyone's right to life, liberty and their pursuit of happiness.

Thanks for the new data and criticism of using articles with hyperbolic headlines! Still, I am not sure if this is an issue that has seen "over-implimentation" of eye-catching headlines, because it is not discussed a lot.

My point in using it was to highlight the risks and impacts being pregnant has on people. To suggest that preganancy comes with expanded rights for women ignores the very real effects being pregnant has on a person's emotional, psychological, and physical health, as well as mortality.

 

[idea]

In Michigan if there is a separation, children go to the mother by default. Father must acquire legal representation to properly present a case why the children should be placed in custody of the father. In Michigan, this is commonplace. Men who fail to pay child support find themselves in jail once their bill accumulates over $2,000 no questions asked, regardless of circumstances if you can't pay during that FOC hearing, the only parent that leaves the courthouse that evening, is the mother. That's less than 2 months' payments at the rate my dad paid, regardless of reason or intent. Locking them up, mind you, terminates them from any occupation they may have had, effectively neutralizing their future ability to pay the child support.

I know a drug-addled unemployed mother who is considered better fit for parenting than the slightly less drug-addled, yet employed, father. Under the basis that the father was single, while the mother was dating (probably her dealer) another posterchild of addiction at the time of the last hearing for custody. I don't know the answer, but I think they rewarded the worse of two evils.

My father, an employed GM worker of 20+ years, with a house mortgage paid off, and a wife. Was paying my mother $280/week to support my sister and myself, while my mom struggled working 2 jobs sometimes 3 trying to fund a home for her kids as she got moved around due to unforeseen circumstances sometimes, and improvements to location or occupation other times... If father had custody, we would have had stable foundation, mother would have had more energy and time to get situated. My mother never put in effort to help my father attain any more rights or lenience from the FOC, so until I moved to his house at the age of 14, he got to see me and my sister twice a year. He had our names tattooed on his heart. He wanted to be a father, we were his purpose for existence, and made it abundantly clear that he loved us both with all of his heart.

Thinks aren't black and white. "Pro this" or "Pro that" is a 2-dimensional person, humans aren't 2D.

Michigan's child support enforcement sounds brutal, but I can understand it. My family has a few single moms, not dads. In my personal experience, dads have higher incarceration and abuse rates. There are exceptions of course, but women tend to be who protect, women provide, women clean, cook, women change diapers, stay up at night, care for sick, and care for kids. Just tradition. Men cannot breastfeed, kids just instinctively cry for mom from the start.

Moms - teach your sons of male toxicity. Teach your boys to cook, clean, sew. Teach your daughters a career - "stay at home mom" is a dormat life.

Let's support dads with equal paternity leave, with daycare at work, with diaper changing stations in men's restrooms. Change in culture will start with how women raise their boys.

 

[Fool]

Michigan's child support enforcement sounds brutal, but I can understand it. My family has a few single moms, not dads. In my personal experience, dads have higher incarceration and abuse rates. There are exceptions of course, but women tend to be who protect, women provide, women clean, cook, women change diapers, stay up at night, care for sick, and care for kids. Just tradition. Men cannot breastfeed, kids just instinctively cry for mom from the start.

Moms - teach your sons of male toxicity. Teach your boys to cook, clean, sew. Teach your daughters a career - "stay at home mom" is a dormat life.

like science, there really aren't many absolutes in life.

Want To Know Why Men Have Nipples? Ask Africa's Aka Pygmy Fathers

Male lactation - Wikipedia

 

[Wildswanderer]

They tend to be pro-war, against affordable medical care for all, pro-death penalty, against programs that feed and house poor people, etc. Sounds pro-life only in the womb and in the tomb.

It's only a difference in perspective. What is best for the poor? Is it the government keeping them dependent or is it programs that help them to become independent? And pro lifers are anti genocide for seniors. I don't think anyone is pro war. But having a strong military is common sense.

 

[Wildswanderer]

assume the clinics are being run predominantly by men, yes.

Why would you assume that? I would assume more workers there are women because they can more easily assure women they are there to help. I know that's true of the people in my church who run these programs to help women with unplanned pregnancies.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

Michigan's child support enforcement sounds brutal, but I can understand it. My family has a few single moms, not dads. In my personal experience, dads have higher incarceration and abuse rates. There are exceptions of course, but women tend to be who protect, women provide, women clean, cook, women change diapers, stay up at night, care for sick, and care for kids. Just tradition. Men cannot breastfeed, kids just instinctively cry for mom from the start.

Moms - teach your sons of male toxicity. Teach your boys to cook, clean, sew. Teach your daughters a career - "stay at home mom" is a dormat life.

Let's support dads with equal paternity leave, with daycare at work, with diaper changing stations in men's restrooms. Change in culture will start with how women raise their boys.

That makes a lot of sense, actually. If we have to surveil too large of the population of single fathers because of a tendency towards violence, to act in favor of the majority is understandable when child violence is the topic.

 

[Sand Dancer]

It's only a difference in perspective. What is best for the poor? Is it the government keeping them dependent or is it programs that help them to become independent? And pro lifers are anti genocide for seniors. I don't think anyone is pro war. But having a strong military is common sense.

I think people who are suffering that want to die peacefully should be allowed to do so. They have to decide when they can make those choices independently, before they get so bad they can't think well.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I think people who are suffering that want to die peacefully should be allowed to do so. They have to decide when they can make those choices independently, before they get so bad they can't think well.

Slippery slope. " I'm depressed this week so let me die." Do you know how many times some older person starts to go downhill and then recovers? And who gets to decide who is of sound mind?

 

[The Hammer]

You are the exception.

My mom worked in social services tracking dads down, actually started a fatherhood initiative to try and get more dads involved in their kids lives. Most dads avoid, evade, abandon, are mia.

I doubt I'm the exception. My wife's was a social worker with foster care before Covid ruined her ability to work. And even she says the same thing.

 

[The Hammer]

And who gets to decide who is of sound mind?

Doctor and patient.

I'm all for assisted suicide and death with dignity.

 

[The Hammer]

Maybe, this is why there are social and religious laws related to this topic. And, why many want the easy way out of a preventable crisis (No, I'm not referring to abortion)!

You know what can prevent a fatherless child.

An abortion.

That way a single mother doesn't have to raise a child alone if she doesn't want to.

 

[Fool]

Perhaps if one is religiously/therefore responsibly minded.

The issue here is that skeptics not only say the man can help cause a pregnancy then skip away in freedom, the woman can abort the child and do the same.

actually the problem is one of trespass. nosey people trying to legislate morality for potential life when real life is something else. religious inquisitors need to find a focus on something that is truly helpful instead going around with their self-righteous noses in the air. just because misery loves company doesn't mean everyone wants someone stirring in their misery uninvited.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Doctor and patient.

I'm all for assisted suicide and death with dignity.

I'm all for no suicides. It's part of being pro life.

 

[Fool]

I'm all for no suicides. It's part of being pro life.

jesus commited suicide. military assisted suicide. even tells you he laid down his life. he could have kept silent and allowed everything to run its course. let god take care of it. but instead he decided to assist and got killed for it.

there have been people who have thrown themselves on a bomb/grenade to reduce the blast. there have been women who have stepped in front of their children to shield them

in the real world there are no absolute black and white. psychologically mature people don't make absolutes statements and if they do, they realize later they were mistaken.


the only absolute is that there are no absolutes

 

[The Hammer]

I'm all for no suicides. It's part of being pro life.

Most people are.

But I've seen the suffering in hospices, and hospitals from my own family members.

I'd choose death on my own terms, over slow and debilitating pain from an incurable disease.

 

[Wildswanderer]

jesus commited suicide. military assisted suicide. even tells you he laid down his life. he could have kept silent and allowed everything to run its course. let god take care of it. but instead he decided to assist and got killed for it.

there have been people who have thrown themselves on a bomb/grenade to reduce the blast. there have been women who have stepped in front of their children to shield them

in the real world there are no absolute black and white. psychologically mature people don't make absolutes statements and if they do, they realize later they were mistaken.


the only absolute is that there are no absolutes

Dying to save someone's life isn't what most people mean by suicide and it's just a diversion from the real suicides happening.