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Discussion in 'Jehovah's Witnesses DIR' started by may, Mar 19, 2005.

  1. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Hehe... that'll be a tough one to defend.:biglaugh:
     
  2. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    the watchtower does not make prophecies the bible does ,did you not read my post.
     
  3. facetiousme

    facetiousme Member

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    Ok, I reread your post. Let me reword my question. Other than pointing people to the Bible, has the Watchtower ever made a prophecy that didn't come true?
     
  4. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    no i dont think you did read my post ,:) i will try to put it another way ,the watchtower magazine keeps watch on world events as these fulfill (BIBLE PROPHECY)It keeps on the watch, what is a litral watchtower for ,it is intended to keep a lookout for things , so they are not caught out,and miss the approaching signs, what would happen if the ones keeping watch fell asleep ,they would be caught off guard ,but sometimes because the light is not quite right , at that time ,it is not always correct , but as the light gets brighter and brighter it becomes clearer ,and they need to wait abit for a better view , or even turn around to a diffarent angle but its better to keep on the watch rather than fall asleep , because if they fall asleep they have no chance of spotting anything ,but if they keep awake they are not negleting their duty
     
  5. facetiousme

    facetiousme Member

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    Yes, I read and reread your post.

    Point taken, they point people to the Bible, they are a "literal watchtower", they aren't falling asleep, etc.

    Now, back to my question. Have they ever made a prophecy that didn't come true? Or have they made any prophecy at all? Are they pointing people to the Bible to find answers or do they provide the answers and point people to the Bible to find scripture to support it?
     
  6. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    :) i am glad you got the point about the lookout and not falling asleep, but also in the inside cover it says , It comforts all people with the Good news that Gods Kingdom will soon destroy those who opress their fellowmen and that it will turn the earth into a paradise , it also says that the mag encourages faith in Gods now-reigning King,Jesus Christ,whose shed blood opens the way for mankind to gain eternal life. yes this mag is announcing Jehovahs Kingdom and where do we find out about the kingdom ....in the bible, the bible is a book of prophecy , not the mag ,so your question has no point ,as its only the bible that is full of prophecies, and in these last days the light is getting brighter and brighter and the understanding about these prophecies is getting clearer and clearer

    (Daniel 12:9) And he went on to say: "Go, Daniel, because the words are made secret and sealed up until the time of [the] end

    (Daniel 12:4) "And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant..........yes there has been lots of roving around the scriptures to get true knowledge to become abundant , but in this time of the end it will come about eventually , because now is the time that the book of the bible , that was sealed up over the years is being opened up and the prophecies understood

    However, there exists a God in the heavens who is a Revealer of secrets Daniel 2;28
    (Psalm 97:11) Light itself has flashed up for the righteous one, And rejoicing even for the ones upright in heart

     
  7. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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    Hi May, I agree that Gods word will come true no matter what any man says, however, like you said the magazine is not the bible so why would we need a mag to lead us to the bible, These mags come from their head quarters, these are people who give you the food at the proper time..With so many failed prophieces how can they be trusted with your spiritual well being ? They can't May...
     
  8. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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    You say the watchtower does not make prophecies ? ok what would you call these...


    1799 "The predicted Man of Sin, the Antichrist, has also made his appearance, and accomplished his long and terrible reign; and at the exact 'time appointed' (1799) his dominion was taken away. The cleansing of the sanctuary was also accomplished as predicted." {TKIC 129}

    1799 "At the end of 1260 years the power of the truth and its witnesses was manifested (A.D. 1799) .. The saints will be changed from earthly to heavenly conditions.. The present little season, before the storm-cloud bursts upon the world, is a most favorable time for the work of the Elijah class, and corresponds to the successful days of both Elijah and John." {TIAH 256-7}

    1799 "We have noted the fulfilment of the 1,260 days, or the time, times and half a time, of Papacy's power to persecute, and the beginning there, in 1799, of the Time of the End." {TKIC 306}

    1799 "The Papal dominion (and much of the abject reverence of the people for ecclesiasticism in general), as already shown, was broken down at the beginning of the Time of the End - 1799; and, though the subsequent process of consumption has been slow, and there have been occasional signs of apparent recovery, which never seemed more flattering than at present .." {BATT 37}

    1799 "The fact is that the entire Gospel age has been a period of tribulation referred to in Matt. 24:9-12, and now in verse 29. (1) The early Church was persecuted by civil Rome, while later, when Papal Rome got control, all who refused to approve her abominations were persecuted by her (Jezebel) directly, or indirectly by the civil powers to which she was wedded (Ahab). And they were given into her power, and she wore out the saints of the Most High for a time, times and a half time - 1260 years - until A.D. 1799. And this long persecution, in which 'many were purified and made white and tried,' and in which the Mother of Harlots was 'drunk with the blood of the saints and the martyrs of Jesus' (Rev. 17:6) ended as we have already shown, practically in 1776 and actually in 1799 when the Pope and his authority were humiliated before the World." {BATT 584}

    1799 "'The time of the end' embraces a period from 1799 A.D. to the time of the complete overthrow of Satan's empire and the establishment of the kingdom of Messiah." {CREA 319}

    1799 "Twelve hundred and sixty years from 539 A.D. brings us to 1799, which is another proof that 1799 definitely marks the beginning of 'the time of the end'. This also shows that it is from the date 539 A.D. that the other prophetic days of Daniel must be counted." {CREA 294}

    1799 "'The time of the end' embraces a period from 1799 A.D." {THOG 236}

    1799 "The time of the end is from 1799.." {WT Nov 1 1922 333/346}

    1799 "The indisputable facts, therefore, show that the "time of the end" began in 1799 .." {WT Mar 1 1922}

    1799 "In Biblical symbology a time means a year of twelve months of thirty days each, or 360 days. Each day is considered for a year .. Here are mentioned, then, three and a half times of 360 prophetic days each, or a total of 1260 prophetic days, equal to 1260 years. The Prophet then was shown that 1260 years would mark the beginning of the time of the end of this beastly order. Twelve-hundred sixty years from A.D. 539 brings us to 1799 - another proof that 1799 marks the beginning of the 'time of the end'. This also shows that it is from the date 539 A.D. that the other prophetic days of Daniel must be counted." {THOG 229-30}

    1799 "Some Roman Catholics have claimed that Jesus Christ's thousand Year Reign ended in 1799 when French armies captured Rome and deposed the pope as its ruler, so that he was deported as a prisoner to France, where he died." {WT Sep 1 1989 12}


    There are many more predictions made that did not come to pass... :(
     
  9. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    bible prophecies always come true , and the understanding about bible prophecies is increased in the last days, or the time of the end, and the start of the last days was in 1914 so out dated stuff is not really for these last days


    (Daniel 10:14) And I have come to cause you to discern what will befall your people in the final part of the days, because it is a vision yet for the days [to come].

    but the ones having insight will understand Daniel 12;10

    (Daniel 12:3) "And the ones having insight will shine like the brightness of the expanse; and those who are bringing the many to righteousness, like the stars to time indefinite, even forever.



     
  10. facetiousme

    facetiousme Member

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    I don't think anyone is arguing that BIBLICAL prophecies come true.

    Let everyone now who really loves the Lord...make the few remaining months the greatest witness yet given or possible.
    (The Watchtower 1941, July 15, p. 222)


    Receiving the gift [the book Children], the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord’s provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon.
    (The Watchtower 1941 September 15, p. 288)


    You seem to be avoiding what we are asking. Did the watchtower make prophecies that DID NOT come true? Even "outdated" ones are STILL prophecies.
     
  11. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    It didn't make prophesies. It incorrectly interpreted the Bible's prophecies.
     
  12. Snowbear

    Snowbear Nita Okhata

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    Waitaminnit :confused: .... It's my understanding that He can be (and is), everywhere, in everything, all the time.... isn't that what omnipotence and omnipresence means? As a Believer, that's what I believe anyhow :D
     
  13. Snowbear

    Snowbear Nita Okhata

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    I gotta ask.... were they actually getting better (by whatever standards you are using to define "worse") before that date??
     
  14. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    we JW never fall asleep we always aim to keep awake , as far as i am concerned armaggedon could be tomorrow who knows only Jehovah... but i have to keep awake and not fall asleep , yes those early witnesses certainly did keep awake to the greatest witness work, that is why i am here now talking about the kingdom because they kept awake to the times that we live in , timely spiritual food indeed i would say yes it could have been months back then but we now know it is still timely food
     
  15. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    Well, i don't beleive Jesus is, or can be, omnipresent. That's the Holy Ghost's job. But that's just me.
     
  16. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    conditions on the earth have got worse since 1914 because that was the year that satan was cast out of the heavens onto the earth so since that date satan has intensified his influence on the earth . but not for much longer because when he is put out of the way Gods kingdom goverment can have full reign to rule the earth
     
  17. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    He didn't ask why things were getting worse. He asked were they getting better before 1914.
     
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  18. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    well before 1914 the bible students knew that 1914 was a very significant date, and it was true ,Jesus was made king of Gods kingdom in the heavens right on time in 1914
    Two lines of evidence point to that year: (1) Bible chronology and (2) the events since 1914 in fulfillment of prophecy. so the interpretation was not wrong in fact it was right on time.



    What​
    happened at that time? Jehovah entrusted rulership over mankind to his own Son, Jesus Christ, glorified in the heavens.—Dan. 7:13, 14.




    Then why is there still so much wickedness on earth? After Christ was enthroned, Satan and his demons were hurled out of heaven and down to the earth. (Rev. 12:12) Christ as King did not immediately proceed to destroy all who refused to acknowledge Jehovah’s sovereignty and himself as the Messiah. Instead, as he had foretold, a global preaching work was to be done. (Matt. 24:14) As King he would direct a dividing of peoples of all nations, those proving to be righteous being granted the prospect of everlasting life, and the wicked being consigned to everlasting cutting-off in death. (Matt. 25:31-46) In the meantime, the very difficult conditions foretold for "the last days" would prevail. those events have been clearly in evidence since 1914. all the things foretold will occur, including the "great tribulation" in which the present wicked world will end.—Matt. 24:21, 22, 34

     
  19. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    As the bible tells us the whole world has always been in the power of the wicked one satan the devil ( 1 john 5;19) since the rebellion in Eden, but since 1914 it is worse still,
    We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one (1 John 5;19)

     
  20. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    So is that a no? Then how do you know it only started to get worse after 1914 if it were always getting worse?
     
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