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Discussion in 'Jehovah's Witnesses DIR' started by may, Mar 19, 2005.

  1. facetiousme

    facetiousme Member

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    Well, in this chapter of Luke (12) that you brought up where He is speaking of/to this "little flock"....He also says that the He is also coming when least expected. That being the case, what signifcance does 1914 have?
     
  2. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    i dont know about others but for me i find that the prophecies and the chronology of the bible is amazing ,it always comes true right on time , please can i ask if you have heard about the prophecies regarding the time for Jesus to take up heavenly kingship in 1914,
    Soon after 1914, the remnant of those who hope to rule in heaven with Jesus began telling the good news that the Kingdom was established. This work has now spread throughout the earth, as Jesus said it would.—Matthew 24:14

     
  3. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    YOU also, keep ready, because at an hour that YOU do not think likely the Son of man is coming....... is this the verse you mean in luke 12;40 if so , jesus is telling them to keep awake and not to fall asleep, otherwise they would miss the signs ,they have to keep awake to what the bible tells them regarding the prophecies and chronology, if they do not keep awake they would miss it , it is invisible to us on the earth , it is going on in the heavens, so his little flock have to keep awake to bible prophecy other wise they would be in the dark about what is going on in the heavens , plus Jesus would bless those who did keep awake, with an understanding of the scriptures ,infact he said that he would have a faithful slave class who would be dishing out food at the proper time ....matthew 24;45-47 regarding spiritual matters . the channel that Jesus is using to dish out timely spiritual food is the 144,000 and since 1914 the remnent of this little flock who are on the earth ,have been making it known that the kingdom is established in the heavens ,in fact Jehovahs people , because of their bible study , knew that 1914 was a very important date to look out for , even thou at times they were not quite sure what would happen at that date and like the early disiples , sometimes along the way they were not always right in their understanding . but at the right time it is revealed to them . for an example of this ,at one time years ago Jehovahs people thought that all christians would be going to heaven , but in Jehovahs time the understanding about revelation 7;9 was revealed to them , the understanding came about in the 1930s when they came to understand that those in this verse , who are called the great crowd, are in fact the other sheep spoken of in ...John 10;16

    "And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.......so it is a progressive understanding of the scriptures in this time of the end , and in the 1930s there was a greater need for the preaching of the Goodnews of the kingdom to be made known, because Jehovah was gathering this great crowd to survive the great day of Jehovah
    the apostle John, at Revelation 7:9-14, wrote about this world-embracing great tribulation. He showed that a great crowd of people would survive it

    Also, in all the nations the good news has to be preached first mark 13;10






     
  4. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    Yes, I have heard that. But like faceciousme says, shouldn't he come when he is least expected? And I always thought it was rediculous the way the chronology was come up with, trying to take all those numbers and fit them to a preconceived model (at least that's how it seems to me).
     
  5. facetiousme

    facetiousme Member

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    I'm with you on the "keep awake" as far as needing to be on your toes but where does this sign stuff come into play? It says to be ready for Him, not the signs. And why do they need to be "aware" of the prophecies and chronology? Doesn't he basically say that everything will happen when NO ONE knows and that your best bet is to "keep awake" because it will be when LEAST expected.

    If so, then how can it be least expected if the date is already set?
     
  6. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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    Predictions for specific dates.
    The following list of prophetic dates may not be exhaustive. On some dates a great many prophecies failed simultaneously, on others only one or two. No Jehovah's Witness prophecy for any date has ever been fulfilled. Some prophecies with their accompanying date were repeated often and others only once or twice. The following list limits itself to one or two quotes for each date:




    LIST OF QUOTES


    Mystery 1917, p. 258)

    1921 It may be that the worldly nations will go down in the fall of 1921.
    (Millions Now Living Will Never Die 1920, Australian edition p. 114)

    1924 …we might expect the harvest to end 50 years after 1874 or with the end of 1924.
    (The Watch Tower 1924, January 1 p. 5)

    1925 Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and the faithful prophets of old...
    (Millions Now Living Will Never Die 1920, Australian Edition pp. 91, 93, 101, 112-120)

    1926 Let us suppose that you are living after the Kingdom is established and the blessings have begun to flow out to the people in abundant measure. Of course it will take some time to get things in smoothly running order after the great stress between now and 1926. It may take ten years before you get your home all fixed up...
    (The Way to Paradise 1924, p. 328)

    1928 So the generation now upon the earth is the generation that was on earth in 1878, and many of them must abide until God’s favor is fully returned to the Jews, and the Kingdom set up. (Souvenir Notes Bible Students Conventions 1913, p. 235)

    Compare:
    Because the time has come for the fulfillment of these great truths, because the Lords kingdom is at hand, and because a generation of people exists upon the earth in ordinary times for fifty years or more, we are now able to confidently say there are millions of people...
    (The Standard for the People 1926, p. 50)

    1935/1936 Suppose we should be wrong in the chronology and that the kingdom will not be fully set up in 1925. Suppose that we were ten years off, and it would be 1935 before restitution blessings began. Without a doubt there are now millions of people on the earth who will be living fifteen years from now; and we could with equal confidence say that ‘Millions Now Living will Never Die’. Whether it be 1925 or 1935, restitution blessings must soon begin...
    (The Watch Tower 1920 October 15, p. 310)

    During the few remaining months until the breaking of that universal cataclysm the powers that rule the nations of the earth will continue to make treaties…
    (Universal War Near 1934, p. 27)

    1942 Let everyone now who really loves the Lord...make the few remaining months the greatest witness yet given or possible.
    (The Watchtower 1941, July 15, p. 222)

    Receiving the gift [the book Children], the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord’s provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon.
    (The Watchtower 1941 September 15, p. 288)

    1940s Those Jonadabs who now contemplate marriage, it would seem, would be better if they wait a few years, until the fiery storm of Armageddon is gone, and then to enter the marital relationship...
    (Face the Facts 1938 p. 50)

    The book Children (1941) is about two J W teenagers who decide to postpone marriage for "only a few years" (pp. 281, 328 Australian edition) until after Armageddon. Delay of marriage and of child-bearing until after Armageddon was taught in the book as the "divine mandate".

    1950 It does not seem unreasonable, therefore, to think that twenty-five years, possibly more, will pass before the awakening of the dead shall begin.
    (The Watchtower 1925, February 15, p. 58)

    1950s? or 1960s? All the facts show that Armageddon is only a short time away, and that period much less than the length of a generation.
    (Health and Life 1932, p. 24)

    Compare:
    The average length of human life is now approximately forty years.
    (Ibid p. 20)

    1975 According to this trustworthy Bible chronology six thousand years from man’s creation will end in the fall of 1975 C.E. How appropriate it would be for Jehovah God to make this coming seventh period of a thousand years a Sabbath rest and release... It would be most fitting on God’s part... It would not be by mere chance or accident...
    (Life Everlasting - In Freedom of the Sons of God 1966, pp. 28-29)

    Before 1976-1986 It is to be carefully noted that the youngest of those who saw with understanding the developing sign of the end of this system of things from its start in 1914 are well over 60 years of age! In fact, the greater part of the adult generation that experienced the start of the "last days" has already passed away in death.
    (Awake! 1966 October 8, p. 18)

    Compare:
    A generation according to Psalms 90:10, is from seventy to eighty years. The generation that witnessed the end of the Gentile Times in 1914 does not have many more years left. Luke 21:24, 32-36.
    (The Watchtower 1968 December 1, p. 715)

    1970s But why is there reason to hope that this changeover may take place even within the present decade?
    (Awake! 1971 October 8, p. 27, 28)

    1989 (Implied) The Hebrews...reckon seventy five years as one generation.
    (Awake! 1988 April 8, p. 14)

    Within 20th century Shortly within our 20th century the ‘battle in the day of Jehovah’ will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom.
    (The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah - How? 1971, p. 216)

    Some of that ‘generation’ could survive until the end of the century. But there are many indications that ‘the end’ is much closer than that.
    (The Watchtower 1984 March 1, p. 19)

    This generation The generation that saw the beginning of woes in 1914 would also see the end of Satan and his entire wicked system of things. It is to be carefully noted that the youngest of those who saw with understanding the developing sign of the end of this system of things from its start in 1914 are now well over sixty years of age.
    (Awake! 1966 October 8, p. 18)

    How would you explain all these quotes..
     
  7. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    Wow. that is definitely an exaustive list!
     
  8. facetiousme

    facetiousme Member

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    So tell me this....how many times does someone have to be wrong to be considered a false prophet?
     
  9. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    bible prophecy and chronology is never wrong it happens right on time every time , and 1914 was right on time as the bible tells us , keeping awake to this is very important . but as the bible tells us no one knows the day or the hour when Jehovah will come to render judgement with the nations, only Jehovah knows that one, even Jesus does not know, or the angels do not know either. the signs that Jesus left us which would indicate where we were in the stream of time would go along with the bible prophecies and chronology , and they were signs for his followers to recognize his presence in kingdom power , and also to recognize that we were in the conclusion of the system of things so it is a composite sign
     
  10. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    as mentioned earlier 1914 , was when Jesus was crowned king of Gods kingdom right on time in line with the bible . the watchtower is not the bible but is a mag to help us keep on the watch and point to the bible , many changes in thought have happened in the past and no dought will happen again ,as we gain greater understanding in these last days
    And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant....Daniel 12;4

    Daniel 12:9) And he went on to say: "Go, Daniel, because the words are made secret and sealed up until the time of [the] end

    In the first century, the Christian congregation was constantly moving forward, opening up new territories, making disciples, and acquiring greater understanding of God’s purposes. its the same now. sometimes the early followers in the first century were not always correct about things but it was revealed in Gods time . i find it really thrilling to be living in this time of the end when things are being revealed

    Regarding progressive spiritual enlightenment, Proverbs 4:18 has proved true. It says: "The path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established.

     
  11. facetiousme

    facetiousme Member

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    In reference to Daniel 12:9 you are saying that the words are made secret until the time of the end?
    If so, that was pretty much my point earlier.

    And yes, I'm for progressive spiritual enlightenment, I'm sure the light get's brighter for everyone during their spiritual journey. It doesn't say that phophecies will be graded on a curve because of that light. A prophecy either comes true or it doesn't. It's either false or it's not.
     
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  12. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    we are now in the time of the end , 1914 was the start of the last days, and the book is being opened up to those who are the slave class ...matthew 24;45-47 you are right prophecy does come true just as it has down through time the bible always comes true.
     
  13. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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    Hi May, the bible definition of a false prophet is found in Duet 18 :22..

    When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, Nor come to pass, that is the thing that the Lord has not spoken but the prophet has spoken it persumpously, you shall not be afraid of Him.

    Can new light contradict old light ? The bible tells us clearly how to define a false prophet..The watchtower seems to ignore this fact.All these false predictions did not come to pass, those are things that the Lord did not speak..period..If we don't listen to God on the matter we would easily fall for every prophet claiming to be from God..Remember we have to test the spirits to see if they are from God, the bible tells us clearly how to do that..Yes we can grow in knowlege and come to a better understanding. but these are just false predictions..So In your opinion how would you test the Spirits to see if they are from God.
     
  14. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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    Just once, I believe would be enough..
     
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  15. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Amen.:shout
     
  16. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    Well, you have to remember, that a prophet is only a prophet when they are speaking God's words. JWs make it clear that they think these things up through their own interpretations/studyings of the Bible, with their own spin on it, not through any revelation from God.
     
  17. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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    Hi Aqualung, yes this is true, we also have to watch with ones that do speak from God, I don't have the scripture off hand, but there is one that says, if a prophet speaks from God, and what he says comes to pass, [ this is the tricky part ] BUT then he says lets go and worship other gods..He too has to be avoided..I know I have paraphased it but it is something like that. We really do have to be careful, satan is the father of lies and can transform himself into the angel of light..
     
  18. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    Gods word the bible always comes true no matter what any man may say , as i have said earlier i think , the watchtower is a mag to point people to the bible it is not the bible , in fact in every issue in the front inside cover it explains just what the watchtower mag is, and what its purpose is. among other things its purpose is to keep watch on world events as these fulfill bible prophecy. the only words that are inspired are the original words of God THE BIBLE the watchtower mag encourages people to look to the bible and the bible tells us that Jesus would be using a Faithful slave class to feed others matthew 24;45-47 with spiritual food at the right time.
     
  19. facetiousme

    facetiousme Member

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    So are you saying the watchtower has never made a prophecy that hasn't come true?
     
  20. facetiousme

    facetiousme Member

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