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Discussion in 'Jehovah's Witnesses DIR' started by may, Mar 19, 2005.

  1. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    yes thats right Jesus will rule as he is already ruling from heaven that is why he will not come in the flesh again . some people say Jesus will come in the flesh to the earth but he wont do that ,but he will turn his attention to the earth and his rulership will take over manmade rulership daniel 2;44 .the kingdom goverment in the heavens is already set up and the time will shortly come when all manmade rulership will come to its end and only the ones willing to be subjects of Gods goverment we be around to see the benifits of the kingdom goverment spoken of in daniel 2;44
     
  2. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    Yeesss . . . which is why I think it would be second class thing to live on earth and only see him every once in a while.
    Or he won't visit at all. which really makes it second class. Either way, it seems like a second class position. So my question still stands. Why do you just accept that you won't be one of the 144,000, instead of striving to be one of them?
     
  3. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    because i dont need to , i have the hope of living under his rulership, which is good enough for me. and the nations will be healed
    And he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of its broad way. And on this side of the river and on that side [there were] trees of life producing twelve crops of fruit, yielding their fruits each month. And the leaves of the trees [were] for the curing of the nations...rev 22;1-2...yes the provisions from God will shower down to the earth and those on earth can drink it up and feed on the symbolic leaves of healing....yum yum:)

     
  4. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    Ah, I see. Okey dokey.
     
  5. nutshell

    nutshell Well-Known Member

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    It's interesting to see the verses your are quoting, May, to support your faith. As an LDS, I use many of the same verses to support my faith, but the interpretation is very different.
     
  6. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    yes , i think JW are the only ones that regconize that Jesus was made king in the heavenly goverment in 1914 and since then , we are living in what the bible calls the last days (of man ruling himself independent of God ) JW regconize this date to be a very important date in bible prophecy .way back in the 1800 hundreds the bible students looked to this date as very important in bible chronology ,and it was , because Jesus was made king in the heavens and Satan was cast down to the earth, satan has no access to the heavenly goverment since 1914 , lets face it ,its no good having rebels in a goverment is it:( thats why since 1914 condtions on the earth have only got worse, because satan knows he has a short period of time before he is put out the way for good then without the influence of satan Gods kingdom can take over the ruling of the earth ..Daniel 2;44


    And war broke out in heaven: Mi´cha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven say:




    "Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ.

    because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God! And they conquered him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their witnessing, and they did not love their souls even in the face of death. On this account be glad, YOU heavens and YOU who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to YOU, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.

    .rev 12;7-12

     
  7. unseen7

    unseen7 New Member

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    Surely there is no chance at all now of getting into jw 'heaven' because all of the jw's in the world that have been and gone surely had 'sufficient bible knowledge' to get into heaven.
    Are you the only JW on these forums may?
    are there not many on because opening your mind slightly to other beliefs is considered apostacy by your 'elders?'
     
  8. Suzy

    Suzy Member

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    Hello, No May isnt the ony Jehovahs Witness here. I am one too. I follow along quite often with what is being said on a couple of religious boards. I just don't post much thats all. Maybe I am not as brave as May is lol. Sometimes(the replies that she gets) it's as if she realy has walked into a lions den.

    Sue
     
  9. nutshell

    nutshell Well-Known Member

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    I must have missed it, but where is the date 1914 from? Where are you getting that?
     
  10. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    LOL well believe it or not my hope is not to go to heaven , that is for only a little flock.
    "Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of giving you the kingdom."—LUKE 12:32

    my hope is to be part of the great crowd that will inherit the earth
    After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying: "Salvation [we owe] to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb....rev 7;9

    Ps. 37:9, 11: "Those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth. . . . The meek ones themselves will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace

    John 10:16: "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd." (Who are these "other sheep"? They are followers of the Fine Shepherd, Jesus Christ, but are not in the "new covenant" sheepfold, with hope of heavenly life. Yet they do come to be closely associated with those who are in that sheepfold.)....... so the invitation from Jesus is open to all....... as for opening our mind to other religions if we have the truth there is no stumbling block . plus , i like to see and hear how others tick

     
  11. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    its to do with bible prophecy and bible chronology have you heard about the seven times


    How,​
    then, is the time calculated down to 1914? Counting 2,520 years from early October of 607 B.C.E. brings us to early October of 1914 C.E., as shown on the chart.






    CALCULATING​
    THE "SEVEN TIMES"





    "Seven times" = 7 X 360 = 2,520 years​

    A Biblical "time," or year = 12 X 30 days = 360. (Rev. 11:2, 3; 12:6, 14)​

    In the fulfillment of the "seven times" each day equals one year. (Ezek. 4:6; Num. 14:34)​

    Early October, 607 B.C.E., to December 31, 607 B.C.E.= 1/4 year​

    January 1, 606 B.C.E., to December 31, 1 B.C.E. = 606 years​

    January 1, 1 C.E., to December 31, 1913 = 1,913 years​

    January 1, 1914, to early October, 1914 = 3/4 year​

    Total: 2,520 years

     
  12. nutshell

    nutshell Well-Known Member

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    But can you demonstrate how bible prophecy and chronolgy lead to the year 1914?
     
  13. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    it is a bit deep into bible prophecy so i will take the information from a book called reasoning from the scriptures printed by JW as it will explain better than i can


    Read​
    Daniel 4:1-17. Verses 20-37 show that this prophecy had a fulfillment upon Nebuchadnezzar. But it also has a larger fulfillment. How do we know that? Verses 3 and 17 show that the dream that God gave to King Nebuchadnezzar deals with the Kingdom of God and God’s promise to give it "to the one whom he wants to . . . even the lowliest one of mankind." The entire Bible shows that Jehovah’s purpose is for his own Son, Jesus Christ, to rule as His representative over mankind. (Ps. 2:1-8; Dan. 7:13, 14; 1 Cor. 15:23-25; Rev. 11:15; 12:10) The Bible’s description of Jesus shows that he was indeed "the lowliest one of mankind." (Phil. 2:7, 8; Matt. 11:28-30) The prophetic dream, then, points to the time when Jehovah would give rulership over mankind to his own Son.






    What​
    was to happen in the meantime? Rulership over mankind, as represented by the tree and its rootstock, would have "the heart of a beast." (Dan. 4:16) The history of mankind would be dominated by governments that displayed the characteristics of wild beasts. In modern times, the bear is commonly used to represent Russia; the eagle, the United States; the lion, Britain; the dragon, China. The Bible also uses wild beasts as symbols of world governments and of the entire global system of human rulership under the influence of Satan. (Dan. 7:2-8, 17, 23; 8:20-22; Rev. 13:1, 2) As Jesus showed in his prophecy pointing to the conclusion of the system of things, Jerusalem would be "trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations" were fulfilled. (Luke 21:24) "Jerusalem" represented the Kingdom of God because its kings were said to sit on "the throne of the kingship of Jehovah." (1 Chron. 28:4, 5; Matt. 5:34, 35) So, the Gentile governments, represented by wild beasts, would ‘trample’ on the right of God’s Kingdom to direct human affairs and would themselves hold sway under Satan’s control.—Compare Luke 4:5, 6.






    For​
    how long would such governments be permitted to exercise this control before Jehovah gave the Kingdom to Jesus Christ? Daniel 4:16 says "seven times" ("seven years," AT and Mo, also JB footnote on verse 13). The Bible shows that in calculating prophetic time, a day is counted as a year. (Ezek. 4:6; Num. 14:34) How many "days," then, are involved? Revelation 11:2, 3 clearly states that 42 months (3 1/2 years) in that prophecy are counted as 1,260 days. Seven years would be twice that, or 2,520 days. Applying the "day for a year" rule would result in 2,520 years.




    When did the counting of the "seven times" begin? After Zedekiah, the last king in the typical Kingdom of God, was removed from the throne in Jerusalem by the Babylonians. (Ezek. 21:25-27) Finally, by early October of 607 B.C.E. the last vestige of Jewish sovereignty was gone. By that time the Jewish governor, Gedaliah, who had been left in charge by the Babylonians, had been assassinated, and the remaining Jews had fled to Egypt. (Jeremiah, chapters 40-43) Reliable Bible chronology indicates that this took place 70 years before 537 B.C.E., the year in which the Jews returned from captivity; that is, it took place by early October of 607 B.C.E. (Jer. 29:10; Dan. 9:2; for further details, see the book "Let Your Kingdom Come," pages 186-189.)

     
  14. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    I thought God's kingdom was what he would establish on earth. :confused:
     
  15. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    Gods heavenly kingdom goverment will acomplish many things for the earth ,
    But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell...2 peter 3;13 the new heavens are a new rulership that was set up when Jesus was made king of the heavenly kingdom in 1914 ,the new earth is the earthly society of people who are willing to be ruled by this new heavenly goverment ,so in the end the kingdom will be on the earth because the people on the earth will be ruled by this heavenly kingdom goverment




    (Isaiah 65:17) "For here I am creating new heavens and a new earth; and the former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart.





    (Revelation 21:1) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more

    For just as the new heavens and the new earth that I am making are standing before me," is the utterance of Jehovah, "so the offspring of YOU people and the name of YOU people will keep standing...isaiah 66;22

     
  16. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    Oh, so there are two kingdoms, and you just have to know (though how I don't know) which one is being talked about in each verse?
     
  17. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth....matthew 6;9

    (Daniel 2:44) "And in the days of those kings(manmade rulership) the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms,(manmade goverments) and it itself will stand to times indefinite................so the kingdom is one goverment by God not 2 only one

     
  18. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    Wait. I'm really confused now. So, you said that: "the kingdom will be on earth," which is where all the resurected people, except the 144,000 will go. But you also quoted Luke 12:32 to say that his kingdom would be in heaven. :help:
     
  19. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    the kingdom goverment is in heaven with Jesus sitting on the throne , and the 144,000 who are the little flock spoken of in luke 12;32 are also in heaven with Jesus and they are serving as kings and priests
    and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth....rev 5;10




    (Revelation 20:4) And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them, and power of judging was given them. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had worshiped neither the wild beast nor its image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years.





    (Revelation 22:5) Also, night will be no more, and they have no need of lamplight nor [do they have] sunlight, because Jehovah God will shed light upon them, and they will rule as kings forever and ever

     
  20. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    Okay. I guess I sort of get it now.
     
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