Mecca and Kaaba in the Bible !!!

[The Tiger of Islam]

The first house established for the people is the one in Bacca; a blessed beacon for all the people.

In it are clear signs: the station of Abraham. Anyone who enters it shall be granted safe passage. The people owe it to GOD that they shall observe pilgrimage to this house, when they can afford it. As for those who disbelieve, GOD does not need anyone.

[Quran 3:96-97]

******************************************************************************
PSALM 84:

4 Blessed are those who dwell in your house
they are ever praising you Selah

5 Blessed are those whose strength is in you
who have set their hearts on pilgrimage

6 As they pass through the Valley of Baca
they make it a place of springs;
the autumn rains also cover it with pools

******************************************************************************

AS YOU SEE THE BOTH TEXTS EITHER IN THE QURAN OR IN THE BIBLE TALK ABOUT THE SAME THING WHICH IS THE HOUSE PRESENT IN BACCA .. BACCA IS THE OTHER COMMON NAME OF MECCA AND THIS IS THE HOUSE TO WHICH MUSLIMS TRAVEL FOR PILGRIMAGE.​

 

[Madhuri]

Are you suggesting that Christians should go to Mecca for pilgrimage?
Is Mecca a place of springs, with many pools during Autumn?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The first house established for the people is the one in Bacca; a blessed beacon for all the people.

In it are clear signs: the station of Abraham. Anyone who enters it shall be granted safe passage. The people owe it to GOD that they shall observe pilgrimage to this house, when they can afford it. As for those who disbelieve, GOD does not need anyone.

[Quran 3:96-97]

******************************************************************************
PSALM 84:

4 Blessed are those who dwell in your house
they are ever praising you Selah

5 Blessed are those whose strength is in you
who have set their hearts on pilgrimage

6 As they pass through the Valley of Baca
they make it a place of springs;
the autumn rains also cover it with pools

******************************************************************************

AS YOU SEE THE BOTH TEXTS EITHER IN THE QURAN OR IN THE BIBLE TALK ABOUT THE SAME THING WHICH IS THE HOUSE PRESENT IN BACCA .. BACCA IS THE OTHER COMMON NAME OF MECCA AND THIS IS THE HOUSE TO WHICH MUSLIMS TRAVEL FOR PILGRIMAGE.​

In Christianity, there is no requirement to go to any sacred place of worship whether in the Bible or otherwise. Many Christians go there by choice. In Islam, if I understand it, it isn't a choice. Both parties have separate books and both have separate ways of interpreting their requirements and does and don't from their books.

So, it would be very inappropriate to base the Bible on the Quran. The Bible doesn't make it a requirement to make a pilgrimage. The Christian outlook is on Christ. Why go anywhere if Christ is with you? Is the thought.

 

[Rival]

Lmfao. This psalm is on about pilgrimage to Zion, which is in Jerusalem. Who the **** takes a detour through Mecca (which probably didn't even exist at the time) to go to Jerusalem? No-one ever.

This is one of the stupidest Islamic arguments I've heard yet.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

BACCA IS THE OTHER COMMON NAME OF MECCA AND THIS IS THE HOUSE TO WHICH MUSLIMS TRAVEL FOR PILGRIMAGE.

Then why is Bacca never used as a name for Mecca, like ever?

 

[Flankerl]

First post and its already far too much quote mining.

8 They go from strength to strength, every one of them appeareth before God in Zion.

 

[ukok102nak]

The first house established for the people is the one in Bacca; a blessed beacon for all the people.

In it are clear signs: the station of Abraham. Anyone who enters it shall be granted safe passage. The people owe it to GOD that they shall observe pilgrimage to this house, when they can afford it. As for those who disbelieve, GOD does not need anyone.

[Quran 3:96-97]

******************************************************************************
PSALM 84:

4 Blessed are those who dwell in your house
they are ever praising you Selah

5 Blessed are those whose strength is in you
who have set their hearts on pilgrimage

6 As they pass through the Valley of Baca
they make it a place of springs;
the autumn rains also cover it with pools

******************************************************************************

AS YOU SEE THE BOTH TEXTS EITHER IN THE QURAN OR IN THE BIBLE TALK ABOUT THE SAME THING WHICH IS THE HOUSE PRESENT IN BACCA .. BACCA IS THE OTHER COMMON NAME OF MECCA AND THIS IS THE HOUSE TO WHICH MUSLIMS TRAVEL FOR PILGRIMAGE.​

:smoke: one of our brethren tell us about this thing as they almost related
as it is written
:read: (as a scenario)
For who has despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run back and forth through the whole earth.

Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?

And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

And he answered me and said, Know you not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.

Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth.


:ty:



godbless
unto all always

 

[Rival]

Also another translation is "Valley of Weeping", which is employed by the Douay-Rheims (the best Catholic Bible, 'Vale of Tears'), Young's Literal Translation, the English Revised Version, The American Standard Version and others. The New Jerusalem uses 'Valley of Balsam"; the Jerusalem Bible uses 'Valley of the Weeper' and so on. It is probable, therefore, that this verse is referring to balsam trees on the way to Zion, maybe through Gildead. This would make 100% more sense than Israelite pilgrims travelling through Mecca to go to Zion, which is absurd.

4 of the Bibles that disagree with the 'Bakkah' translation are Catholic, so it's highly likely that the preferred Catholic reading of this vers is 'valley of weeping' or something similar.

Mecca is not a 'place of springs', it is a desert. Mecca is situated in a very strange place. Had this verse said 'Yathrib' I could have given a slight, slight pause for thought. Mecca is not on any known ancient Israelite pilgrimage routes and why should it be? They pilgrimaged to Zion, their holiest place, in Jerusalem. Why would they wander to an arid desert full of pagans? It makes no sense.

Also I would like to see some proof that Mecca ever even existed in the time of David, or the Sons of Korah, 1,000 years before the birth of the Christ. Also, if the Ka'aba was a holy place of some sort and this psalm was somehow referring to it, why is it mentioned literally no-where else in the scriptures ever? Because the Jews had their own Temple, that's why; they didn't need a scummy black box in the middle of a desert, when they had their own magnificent, Jewish Temple already within a good distance.

Please

 

[Ouroboros]

... observe pilgrimage to this house ...
.
.
... As they pass through ...

There's a difference between the prepositions. "To" means to go to a place as a destination. You go there, and you then stay there. "Through" means to go there, but not stop there. Instead you continue. It's not the destination.

So in the first, Baca is the destination for the pilgrimage, while in the second, Baca is not the destination for the pilgrimage. That's the very simple and obvious difference.​

 

[Desert Snake]

Also another translation is "Valley of Weeping", which is employed by the Douay-Rheims (the best Catholic Bible, 'Vale of Tears'), Young's Literal Translation, the English Revised Version, The American Standard Version and others. The New Jerusalem uses 'Valley of Balsam"; the Jerusalem Bible uses 'Valley of the Weeper' and so on. It is probable, therefore, that this verse is referring to balsam trees on the way to Zion, maybe through Gildead. This would make 100% more sense than Israelite pilgrims travelling through Mecca to go to Zion, which is absurd.

4 of the Bibles that disagree with the 'Bakkah' translation are Catholic, so it's highly likely that the preferred Catholic reading of this vers is 'valley of weeping' or something similar.

Mecca is not a 'place of springs', it is a desert. Mecca is situated in a very strange place. Had this verse said 'Yathrib' I could have given a slight, slight pause for thought. Mecca is not on any known ancient Israelite pilgrimage routes and why should it be? They pilgrimaged to Zion, their holiest place, in Jerusalem. Why would they wander to an arid desert full of pagans? It makes no sense.

Also I would like to see some proof that Mecca ever even existed in the time of David, or the Sons of Korah, 1,000 years before the birth of the Christ. Also, if the Ka'aba was a holy place of some sort and this psalm was somehow referring to it, why is it mentioned literally no-where else in the scriptures ever? Because the Jews had their own Temple, that's why; they didn't need a scummy black box in the middle of a desert, when they had their own magnificent, Jewish Temple already within a good distance.

Please

I'm glad that you think our temple was magnificent.

 

[Tumah]

The first house established for the people is the one in Bacca; a blessed beacon for all the people.

In it are clear signs: the station of Abraham. Anyone who enters it shall be granted safe passage. The people owe it to GOD that they shall observe pilgrimage to this house, when they can afford it. As for those who disbelieve, GOD does not need anyone.

[Quran 3:96-97]

******************************************************************************
PSALM 84:

4 Blessed are those who dwell in your house
they are ever praising you Selah

5 Blessed are those whose strength is in you
who have set their hearts on pilgrimage

6 As they pass through the Valley of Baca
they make it a place of springs;
the autumn rains also cover it with pools

******************************************************************************

AS YOU SEE THE BOTH TEXTS EITHER IN THE QURAN OR IN THE BIBLE TALK ABOUT THE SAME THING WHICH IS THE HOUSE PRESENT IN BACCA .. BACCA IS THE OTHER COMMON NAME OF MECCA AND THIS IS THE HOUSE TO WHICH MUSLIMS TRAVEL FOR PILGRIMAGE.​

Bakka is spelled بكة‎‎ (BKH). The /h/ at the end is a letter that indicates that its a feminine word.
The place in Psalms is spelled בכא / بكا (BX_) The /_/ represents a silent letter. Lacking a feminine suffix, this is a masculine word. The Hebrew letter represented by the /χ/ can also be pronounced as a /k/ depending on whether a dot is present in the letter or not. Here its not and neither is it in 2 Sam. 5:23-24 where the word is found in its plural form referring to a type of tree.
In other words, the verse in Psalms, is probably referring to a valley that was known to have this type of tree. Perhaps the valley was even named after the tree. Its even possible that the Meccan valley had this type of tree as well and was called by an Arabic equivalent to this Hebrew name. But there could have been other valleys as well. So other than a coincidence that among all the other things mentioned in Psalms is a valley known for a certain type of tree that also may happen to be the same tree found in the Meccan valley, I don't see any reason to assume that this is that.

Also note the word "springs" and not "oasis" or "wells". Early rains and springs don't really sound like a desert valley.

The people are passing through this valley to go to their pilgrimage. They aren't making a pilgrimage in the valley. I'm sure that's relevant.
The word you are translating as pilgrimage here doesn't mean "pilgrimage" it means "paths (מסילה)". The path that these people are taking to make their pilgrimage to the Temple is through this valley. The word that probably best fits the translation of "pilgrimage" is a different word (רגל), that is used to refer to the three main festivals of Passover, Tabernacles and Weeks which is when the Jews had to go up to the Temple. That word isn't used here.

In Tanach, the Temple is often called "the House of G-d" and "My (G-d's) House". Whether the Kaaba is called a house as well doesn't really matter, since we already know about the role of the Temple. It makes more sense that the author was referring to that one. Especially since there's no indication that this house is in the valley. Only that some people had to pass a valley to get to the house which as was noted in in Zion (verse 8).

So no. No Mecca in Tanach. And because it seems to be a ritual for new Muslims to mention these things, there is not Muhammad in Tanach either.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Did anybody check this on Snopes?

 

[Tumah]

I'm glad that you think our temple was magnificent.

???

 

[Flankerl]

So no. No Mecca in Tanach. And because it seems to be a ritual for new Muslims to mention these things, there is not Muhammad in Tanach either.

You forgot to mention Ezra. They think we pray to him.

 

[Rival]

So, which is it? Either,

The Bible is corrupted (Because, you know, the Jews changed their scriptures and everything and then the Apostle Paul came and corrupted the Gospel)

OR

The Bible proves Islam? (Because psalm 84 clearly proves that the Jews worshipped at the ka'aba at Mecca and Muhammad is mentioned in the Tnach).

Seriously?

????

 

[ukok102nak]

:smoke: so many temple
and not one in the desert
as they say
so what kind of pilgrimage is this
as it is written
:read:
Genesis: 47. 9. And Jacob said unto Pharaoh, The days of the years of my pilgrimage are an hundred and thirty years: few and evil have the days of the years of my life been, and have not attained unto the days of the years of the life of my fathers in the days of their pilgrimage.


:ty:



godbless
unto all always

So, which is it? Either,

The Bible is corrupted (Because, you know, the Jews changed their scriptures and everything and then the Apostle Paul came and corrupted the Gospel)

OR

The Bible proves Islam? (Because psalm 84 clearly proves that the Jews worshipped at the ka'aba at Mecca and Muhammad is mentioned in the Tnach).

Seriously?

????

 

[The Tiger of Islam]

So much comments without one good argument to debunk my clear evidence above !!!

1- First claim:

Some argued BLINDLY that this psalm is talking about pilgrimage to Zion, which is in Jerusalem because verse 7 goes as follows:

"They GO from strength to strength; each one appears before God in Zion."

Lets refute this baseless answer:

The precedent verse says: As they PASS through the valley of Baca ... This verse is clearly pointing some travellers who used to pass through Baca for pilgrimage until they appear before God in Zion. We read from Benson commentary concerning Psalm 84:6:

"through the valley of Baca — A place so called, which some Jewish and other writers affirm to have been a very dry place, and therefore incommodious for TRAVELLERS in those hot countries, and in hot seasons. Which place may be here mentioned, not exclusively of other ways; for this highway being but one, and on one side of Jerusalem, could not be a general way for all the Israelites thither; but synecdochically for all places of like nature, which made THEIR JOURNEY TO JERUSALEM unpleasant or inconvenient."

Source: http://biblehub.com/commentaries/psalms/84-6.htm

And concerning Psalm 84:7, we read:

"The farther they travel onward in that way, instead of being faint and weary, as travellers in such cases are wont to be, they grow stronger and stronger, being greatly refreshed with the comfortable end of their journey, expressed in the following words. Or, they go from company to company. For they used to travel in troops or companies, for many reasons, and some companies were before others accordingly as they were nearer to the place of worship, or more diligent or more expeditious in travelling. And such as were most zealous would use their utmost endeavours to outstrip others, and to overtake one company of travellers after another, that so they might come with the first unto God in Zion. Every one appeareth before God — This is here added, as the blessed design and fruit of their long and tedious journey, as that which put life into them, and made them bear all inconveniences with great cheerfulness — they are all graciously admitted into the presence of God in Zion. But the words are and may be otherwise rendered, until every one of them appears before the God of gods in Zion. Or, the God of gods shall be seen (or, useth to appear, or, manifest himself) in Zion. Which is mentioned in the close, as the reason of that affection and industry which are described in the foregoing passages."

Source: http://biblehub.com/commentaries/psalms/84-7.htm

We conclude that the whole chapter of Psalm 84 is talking about travel of pilgrims from the valley of Baca where they used to dwell in the house of God to Zion in Jerusalem.


2- Second claim:

Then why is Bacca never used as a name for Mecca, like ever ?

According to the comprehensive classical Arabic dictionary 'Lisan al-Arab', 'The Arab Tongue', completed in 1290 C, by the Arabic lexicographer Ibn Manzur (1233-1312 C):

"The site of Kaaba and its surroundings was named Bakkah due to crowding and congestion of people in the area. The Arabic verb bakka (بكَّ), with double "k", means to crowd like in a bazaar. This is not to be confused with another unrelated Arabic verb baka (بَكَى)(single k) which is the past participle of yabki (يَبْكِي), to weep."

The same name appears in the Glorious Quran on 3:96 (The first house established for the people is the one in Bacca)

*************************************************************************************************************

In the next post I will provide irrefutable evidence from Biblical commentaries, Christian scholars and Historians that Baca here in Psalm 84 is Mecca.

​

 

[Rival]

So much comments without one good argument to debunk my clear evidence above !!!

1- First claim:

Some argued BLINDLY that this psalm is talking about pilgrimage to Zion, which is in Jerusalem because verse 7 goes as follows:

"They GO from strength to strength; each one appears before God in Zion."

Lets refute this baseless answer:

The precedent verse says: As they PASS through the valley of Baca ... This verse is clearly pointing some travellers who used to pass through Baca for pilgrimage until they appear before God in Zion. We read from Benson commentary concerning Psalm 84:6:

"through the valley of Baca — A place so called, which some Jewish and other writers affirm to have been a very dry place, and therefore incommodious for TRAVELLERS in those hot countries, and in hot seasons. Which place may be here mentioned, not exclusively of other ways; for this highway being but one, and on one side of Jerusalem, could not be a general way for all the Israelites thither; but synecdochically for all places of like nature, which made THEIR JOURNEY TO JERUSALEM unpleasant or inconvenient."

Source: http://biblehub.com/commentaries/psalms/84-6.htm

And concerning Psalm 84:7, we read:

"The farther they travel onward in that way, instead of being faint and weary, as travellers in such cases are wont to be, they grow stronger and stronger, being greatly refreshed with the comfortable end of their journey, expressed in the following words. Or, they go from company to company. For they used to travel in troops or companies, for many reasons, and some companies were before others accordingly as they were nearer to the place of worship, or more diligent or more expeditious in travelling. And such as were most zealous would use their utmost endeavours to outstrip others, and to overtake one company of travellers after another, that so they might come with the first unto God in Zion. Every one appeareth before God — This is here added, as the blessed design and fruit of their long and tedious journey, as that which put life into them, and made them bear all inconveniences with great cheerfulness — they are all graciously admitted into the presence of God in Zion. But the words are and may be otherwise rendered, until every one of them appears before the God of gods in Zion. Or, the God of gods shall be seen (or, useth to appear, or, manifest himself) in Zion. Which is mentioned in the close, as the reason of that affection and industry which are described in the foregoing passages."

Source: http://biblehub.com/commentaries/psalms/84-7.htm

We conclude that the whole chapter of Psalm 84 is talking about travel of pilgrims from the valley of Baca where they used to dwell in the house of God to Zion in Jerusalem.


2- Second claim:

Then why is Bacca never used as a name for Mecca, like ever ?

According to the comprehensive classical Arabic dictionary 'Lisan al-Arab', 'The Arab Tongue', completed in 1290 C, by the Arabic lexicographer Ibn Manzur (1233-1312 C):

"The site of Kaaba and its surroundings was named Bakkah due to crowding and congestion of people in the area. The Arabic verb bakka (بكَّ), with double "k", means to crowd like in a bazaar. This is not to be confused with another unrelated Arabic verb baka (بَكَى)(single k) which is the past participle of yabki (يَبْكِي), to weep."

The same name appears in the Glorious Quran on 3:96 (The first house established for the people is the one in Bacca)

*************************************************************************************************************

In the next post I will provide irrefutable evidence from Biblical commentaries, Christian scholars and Historians that Baca here in Psalm 84 is Mecca.

​

You are very confused and know nothing about the Bible. You are clearly not worth debating with. I hope you enjoy your delusions.

 

[Rival]

By the way, OP, what you're saying is also grossly offensive.You are trying to tell Bible believers how to interpret their own Scriptures and that we don't know what our own Scriptures mean. Jews and Christians have been studying Psalms for at least 600 years until your religion showed up and you have the guile to tell us what our Scriptures really mean? We've provided myriad arguments to refute your claim,

1. Bacca is referring, probably, to a type of tree; or a valley with this tree therein.

2. The destination of the journey is Jerusalem and the people going there are Jews; Mecca is not on the route to Jerusalem from anywhere except Arabia.

3. Another translation very common is 'Valley of Weeping'. How many times is Mecca referred to as this? Never.

You will not listen to reason and then tell us how we should read our own Scriptures?

Get lost.

 

[Augustus]

The precedent verse says: As they PASS through the valley of Baca ... This verse is clearly pointing some travellers who used to pass through Baca for pilgrimage until they appear before God in Zion. We read from Benson commentary concerning Psalm 84:6:

"through the valley of Baca — A place so called, which some Jewish and other writers affirm to have been a very dry place, and therefore incommodious for TRAVELLERS in those hot countries, and in hot seasons. Which place may be here mentioned, not exclusively of other ways; for this highway being but one, and on one side of Jerusalem, could not be a general way for all the Israelites thither; but synecdochically for all places of like nature, which made THEIR JOURNEY TO JERUSALEM unpleasant or inconvenient."

So many Jews used to walk the path to Jerusalem via the Hijaz?

And the proof is that it was a hot, dry place so couldn't possibly have referred to anywhere else in the Middle East?

Convincing...