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McDonald's and other CEOs tell investors a $15 minimum wage won't hurt business

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by Stevicus, Apr 8, 2021 at 8:01 AM.

  1. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    McDonald's, other CEOs have confided to Investors that a $15 minimum wage won't hurt business

    I thought this was interesting, as numerous restaurant executives and employees are saying that they're doing just fine in states which have minimum wage increase and some report increases in guest traffic. This is in contrast to the claims made by their lobby group, the National Restaurant Association, which continues to claim that raising the minimum wage would be a disaster for the economy.

    This seems to be at odds with claims made by the National Restaurant Association and others who oppose the wage increase, such as the US Chamber of Commerce and the National Small Business Association. The McDonald's CEO said "McDonald's will do just fine."

    Some companies don't seem to think that the minimum wage is really much of an impact, since they can't really find workers willing to work at such a low wage anyway.

    Of course, the upside of raising the minimum wage is that it can be expected to increase consumer spending, which would also be good for business.

    I like that line: "The statements from leaders across various service industry sectors undercut corporate lobbying groups in Washington that have pretended such a wage increase would destroy the economy."

    But this also makes one wonder whether these corporate lobby groups are representing their industries in good faith. There seems to be a disconnect between the ideologue lobbyists and the people who actually work in the industry they represent.

    They also claim that it will affect tipped employees the hardest.

     
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  2. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    Wonder if that assessment included franchise owners, or was it strictly corporate top tier?
     
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  3. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    Not sure, although one of the people quoted said that it could affect some of their competitors and "ultimately the stronger survive and take market share."

    I do find it interesting that some business people seem to view wages in a different way than they seem to view other overhead and costs they might incur. You don't hear them bellow much if the oil companies raise prices or if the costs of equipment, rents, or utilities go up. They seem to take it all in stride. But any talk about raising wages, and suddenly the "sky is falling."
     
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  4. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    I think you're imagining the bellowing.
    When costs rise, they do so for all. So generally no
    company's relative advantage or disadvantage changes.
    And it the rise doesn't affect demand significantly, there's
    no problem. Everyone raises prices.
    Caution: Businesses who are inefficient with labor will suffer.

    The minimum wage effects that should be of concern....
    - Effect on workers who aren't worth what they cost.
    - Increased incentive to automate, & reduce the workforce.
     
  5. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    Well, I just see what I see and call it as I see it.

    Well, I guess that said about any costs a business might incur. If they spend unwisely or are inefficient/wasteful, then they'll face consequences. I've known companies which penny pinch on wages for employees, yet spend big bucks on lavish decor and expensive furnishings for the manager's office.

    Well, when you say they aren't worth what they cost, that's a subjective judgment. One could just as easily opine that the executives and CEOs aren't worth what they cost. There's no science to it; it's just opinionated statements of what people think they're "worth."

    As for automation, I think we're likely headed in that direction anyway. Why would a business hire workers if they can get the same job accomplished with a machine?
     
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  6. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    No, it's not only objective, it's quantitative.
    We can calculate their productivity & their cost.
    I found this particularly so with staff whose time I'd bill to
    clients. Different workers had different wages & bill rates.
    To incentive automation accelerates the pace. We'd have to face
    increasing ranks of unemployable people sooner. UBI perhaps?
    It's a consequence unanticipated by min wage advocates.

    My advice: Look before leaping.
    You might still want to raise the min wage, but be prepared
    for all consequences. Consider Biden's border policy change,
    which incentivized unaccompanied kids. He didn't plan for the
    surge, & is only now addressing the crisis he should've foreseen.
    Doing the right thing isn't enuf. We should plan ahead.
     
    #6 Revoltingest, Apr 8, 2021 at 9:59 AM
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021 at 10:08 AM
  7. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    I am reminded of a docu/drama some years ago....

    Too Big To Fail

    must see it.....yes you should
     
    #7 Thief, Apr 8, 2021 at 9:59 AM
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021 at 10:11 AM
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  8. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    I don't know if that would work in every industry. Perhaps some of it can be quantified, but I've observed that when people make evaluations of who is a "good employee" versus who is a "bad employee," it can often be very subjective and opinionated.

    I support UBI. I don't see it as a "consequence" but a necessity and step towards greater progress.
     
  9. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    Employee evaluations typically aren't economic.
    Decisions about cost effectiveness are a separate analysis.
    I see the UBI not as a consequence, but as addressing consequences.
     
  10. Quetzal

    Quetzal A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
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    This is an important distinction.
     
  11. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    I really don't care if a $15 minimum wage drives some restaurants out of business. If a business can't afford to pay a living wage to it's workers it shouldn't be in business in the first place. It's not an economically viable commercial enterprise.
     
    #11 PureX, Apr 8, 2021 at 11:22 AM
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021 at 4:18 PM
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  12. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    There simply is no objective way to measure this "worth." Such as those McDonald's CEOs, they don't have a damn thing without without store associates. And plenty of companies simply just do not concern themselves with such. One company I worked for, salaried managers made less than minimum wage when you divided their salary by the hours the worked. The value of labor has been so far removed from labor that we like to pretend people have to start working crappy jobs that pay very little, allegedly to learn basic job skills even though "basic job skills," like showing up on time, aren't taught and learned growing up. There simply is nothing "work related" to learn at those jobs, but we place a value on them by thinking people have to start there, many of them are legit hard and stressful jobs, and we end up not paying a real value wage for them but rather a perceived value based upon the erroneous assumption that they are "beginner's jobs" and would only have teens and very young adults working there anyways.
    They are automating regardless. Like, when the unveiled those automated kiosks shortly after some states raised their wages? They didn't research them and build them overnight. They already had them coming along the way. Automated jobs are going to happen regardless of wages. And we can expect such a deep automation of jobs that UBI is going to be a bandaid for a trauma patient who is hemorrhaging blood. Our society is build upon manufacturing, industry, and jobs. However, those are yesterday, they are dying off today, and they won't be here tomorrow. We must have a paradigm shift in our economy moves beyond the models of the industrial age and Fordism. They worked for awhile, but we just don't live in that world anymore.
     
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  13. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    @Shadow Wolf said a lot of what I was going to say.

    If people who work hard can't afford decent food, basic clothing and adequate shelter then the economy is utterly out of whack and drastic measures are needed.

    As far as restaurants and places like McDonalds go, a happy employee (note I'm not using the crap word associate) is one of the thing people look for.

    Someone who can't make a decent living and feels stressed all the time is not going to communicate positivity to diners and people who go out to eat now want not only a meal but a good experience.

    Businesses that realize this are not bothered by paying a living wage because they know the consequences will be positive.
     
  14. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    That's been your experience analyzing how
    much
    money your employees make for you?

    Does this mean that you think wage pressures
    have no effect on the rate of automation?

    I don't subscribe to the view that whatever happens is
    going to happen as it does independently of governmental
    influences. An old saying...
    If you pay people to grow bananas, you'll get more bananas.
    .....holds true.

    I know things will change. People who cannot do anything
    useful enuf to get a living wage will be a powerful voting force.
    The UBI addresses that.
    I'm just urging people to think about the consequences of
    what seems to be a good idea. And that even good ideas
    require some groundwork before implementation, lest the
    good idea have bad results.

    BTW, your font color really messes
    up the inserted quotation device.
     
  15. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Nope. Because then they become annoyances. Especially if it's not a smooth transaction. And you know you only are going to see pennies of all that money handed over; advertisement for a company damn near everyone in the world already knows about is going to get more than you. You drip sweat all over the grill and into the friers, because it's crazy busy and hot, and there is no moment to take to at least wipe your face dry. And there's a pretty good chance you'll get a burn or cut severe enough to go to the emergency room, and repetitive motion injuries are common. And you add in a crap manager who also hates their job and everyone else, and the environment does become toxic, and customers do get mistreated and no one cares if they make a mistake. And to top it off, you can barely afford to eat there yourself if you don't get an employee discount.
     
  16. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Don't need the actual experience for this one, as we have sufficient data to break this one down. Kind of like how they aren't much looking at the stars to learn about the cosmos anymore. It's a lot of computers and data.
    And personal experience--aka anecdotal evidence--is insufficient for such a thing anyways. There must be a larger pool of data to draw from anyways so one can observe general trends.

    Not really. Automation is going on with or without.
    As far as things like the fast food kiosks, there timing is sort of like all the alcohol when prohibition ended, or all the cannabis for sale on day 1 of a state allowing it for recreational sale. It was already coming along ahead of legislation, despite it even being illegal prior to the legislation coming into effect.
    Reductions in work force and automation, those trends won't be slowing down.

    I don't challenge that necessarily, but a lot does happen independently of the state. Like a business cutting costs. That happens regardless.
    And then there are times when the government is lead by corporate lobbying influence, such as we saw with NAFTA.
    I agree. But there is a great deal of resistance to laying the groundwork we need to start laying yesterday. UBI probably will be needed as we transition, but eventually even manufacturing will be on a much smaller scale (it's gonna have to be, the Earth requires it) and jobs themselves as we know them will be so scarce we may end up with something that looks more like the precursor to the DS9 Bell's Riot. Especially if UBI fails to keep up with inflation as minimum wage does.
    We're going to have to start investigating ways to ensure basic and necessary resources are fairly distributed for when we can no longer depend on work to acquire the means for those things. Such as allotting a basic amount of water and electricity, but charging for usage beyond that, or charging extra for things such as swimming pools and water fountains. And the sooner we start, the smoother the transition will be.
     
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  17. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    Wages go to the working class, while the revenues from raised commodity prices and rents ultimately cycle back into the capitalist class. Perhaps that might have something to do with their reactions. The capitalist class is typically rather conscious of its class interests, and willing to exert considerable effort in their pursuit.
     
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  18. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    What data?

    In this case, If my anecdote of analyzing worker productivity
    is useful, then certainly more sophisticated businesses would
    employ the same tool.

    The issue I raise is an increase...which should be considered
    in advance so as to avoid unintended deleterious consequences.
    I don't see min wage increase advocates doing anything about this.

    Speeding these changes up should be addressed.
    Look before you leap.
    And if leaping into cow pies, put on boots beforehand.
     
  19. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    But you were talking about determining whether an employee was making more than he/she is worth. How can that not be subjective?

    Are they following the principles of the free market, supply and demand? It would seem not, since many companies complain of labor shortages and have to make do with low-skilled employees and high turnover.

    How much is it worth to a business to have a steady, long-term, quality workforce, as opposed to a high turnover of lesser qualified individuals who may be a bit cheaper - but might end being more work for other staff who have to train a new person every month or two. Regular customers might get put off by having to deal with a different person every few months. Some companies may put this into their analysis, while others apparently do not.

    Well, there are plenty of consequences due to political incompetence, bureaucratic intransigence, and economic mismanagement. Not to mention many other things.
     
  20. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    By quantitatively examining their cost vs their benefit.
    When the market changes, it can be difficult to
    determine wages. Paying too much or too little
    doesn't work. It's not always easy.
     
    #20 Revoltingest, Apr 8, 2021 at 7:38 PM
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021 at 7:46 PM
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