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Maybe religion/ religious people

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
I've been on this forum a while and found that it pretty much cycles between which group is in the crosshairs. Atheists seem to be the current favourite target though that will change sooner or later.

So, which group is next? Let's spin the wheel!
Can we have a vote?
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
It's more of a Toltec thing.

In my experience, judging others (and oneself) is a path to suffering.

You may be onto something. There's a potential chance you've witnessed me being hard on myself before, and myself showing signs of a low self-esteem as a result.

Although, I prefer to judge these things on a case-by-case, less broad, basis. And not say that judging one's self and others leads to suffering. Because first I'd have to establish that suffering is necessarily bad in general. I do see low self-esteem as bad, though. But as for suffering in general, sometimes it leads to spiritual self-growth for those of us still growing.

But since this isn't a debate subject, I'm really just elaborating my thoughts. I'm also not trying to give you a metaphorical "middle finger" with my words as I see you being a bit further along in your Hindu path than me, and in some or several cases, I do see myself thinking that when you speak on morality, paths, etc, I should generally just be quiet and listen to you, as there's no need for "the student" to be telling "the master" what is what, on subjects of morality.

So I guess this is my lengthy way of just tipping my hat to your post.

”Merits” KAT-KAT… Perhaps it’s my (mis)understanding of the term, but that could come across a elitist, no?

Humbly
Hermit

It might. Though if I was able to properly convey my nuances and how this was a part of my Left Hand Path beliefs, maybe I wouldn't. However, the moment I tell everyone every one of my Left Hand Path beliefs, is the moment it ceases to be special and unique, and becomes ordinary.
 

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
How does this differ from a religious person trying to stop atheist views in their own neck of the woods?
If I could interject...
Atheist "views" would never lead to the kind of school/college subject issues that seem to exist in the US, specifically around science topics - age of the earth, geology, fossils, evolution etc. It may be a slippery slope from skateboarding sessions by the sea to creationism being taught in schools as a realistic possibility, since those arranging the skateboarding believe this and want to push it.
 

Hermit Philosopher

Selflessly here for you
Speaking only from my own experience when I was extremely against atheists. I believe it comes from fear, that what if the atheist is right? What if God isn't a old man in the sky :)


Not that I believe that God is an “old man in the sky” ;) and, I’m not saying that nobody who believes in God is ever afraid that they might be wrong, nor that they should look down on atheism either! But personally (as an “ex-atheist”), there are some things that concern me regarding how the two groups interact regarding their views on “truth”:

1. Believers who label atheists as fallen and damned.
2. Atheists who label believers as irrational and stupid.
4. People, in general, mistaking manners for sarcasm.
3. Personal attacks, in general - I had someone the other day write that they wanted to kick me in the balls (!) for my beliefs (?) - I haven’t even got balls.


We also do well to remind ourselves that believers do not represent God*, and that atheists do not represent science**.

*) Plenty of believers have questionable values and treat their fellow beings in very odd ways.

**) My favourite philosophical conversations have always been with scientists, because scientists are detached and know how to think outside the box. They are not dismissive of attempting to see things in ways that do not necessarily harmonise with their views, but could further be reflected and analysed upon.
All progressive science stems from good imagination and the courage to express ideas that at first seem paradoxical or flat out improbable.

Not all scientists are atheist and most atheists are definitely not scientists. ;)


Humbly
Hermit
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
God should be believed in just as the truth and true interpretation of Quran should be followed. However, everyone has their own reasons, if they stay away from the truth, and so we have to see those reasons and heal people through that.
 

Psalm23

Well-Known Member
Someone wrote yesterday that atheism was the worst, apparently I am worse than Hitler to them!

I’m not sure where you saw this. The statement is about atheism is false. I have a brother and sister in law who are kind people and atheist.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The way I understand Quran is that God wants to send miracles in all times, and if miracles are not in the open, something occurred in previous generations when they denied them, that causes it better to be hidden.

Nothing keeps Us from sending signs except that the former peoples denied them. We gave Thamud the she-camel as an eye-opener, but they wronged her. We do not send the signs except as warning.

Al-Qur'an - Read, Recite And Research (al-islam.org)

In the dark nights when miracles are hidden, truth and God's word is not high, but on the low defensive ground.

This is why we have to explain things, and have a lot of explaining to do.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Just now I was reading in atheists dir and I realized something.....

Some religious people, and also religious institutions may need to apologize to Atheists....hard to hear? Yes but if religious leaders knew what Atheists go through because of believers. That seem to be something religion forget.

Sufism speak of that as practitioner one should respect every human being, no matter they are same or different than us.

In my past i was an unwise critique of atheists and I said things I know was false speech.

Believers and atheists may never come to a form of unity when it comes to religious belief.
But if we treat each other with respect. Maybe there is a hope for humanity.

Terrorist bombers of the World Trade Center highly respected their victims. Body parts strewn among the steel beams, and toxic smoke rose above all. Terrorists felt that they would get their (the terrorists) reward in heaven for killing greedy infidels. They specifically targeted the seat of commerce (World Trade Center) and seat of government (Pentagon, and perhaps Congress).

I am sure that they also forgave their victims whom they highly respected.

Other terrorist attacks (in Israel, and around the world) also earned respect of terrorist perpetrators.

Undying admiration, that lingers after the suicide bombings is truly inspirational.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Undying admiration, that lingers after the suicide bombings is truly inspirational.

How about Christian suicide bombers? How about atheist suicide bombers? How about Hindu suicide bombers?

Do they all carry the same infidel killing desire? Can you please explain?
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
The way I understand Quran is that God wants to send miracles in all times, and if miracles are not in the open, something occurred in previous generations when they denied them, that causes it better to be hidden.

Nothing keeps Us from sending signs except that the former peoples denied them. We gave Thamud the she-camel as an eye-opener, but they wronged her. We do not send the signs except as warning.

Al-Qur'an - Read, Recite And Research (al-islam.org)

In the dark nights when miracles are hidden, truth and God's word is not high, but on the low defensive ground.

This is why we have to explain things, and have a lot of explaining to do.

Following the 911 attack, God gave special psychic visions to many psychically gifted people on earth, warning them not to attack Iraq (just as Revelation warns). These visions are miracles of God.

God told us "thou shalt not kill." Yet, war after war after war, God is disappointed.

God's psychics know that they are prohibited from revealing themselves. God doesn't want people to worship them. Only their message is important. They cannot feel special or grand as a result of receiving God's visions.

The people were blinded by fear and anger (anger about the 911 attack), and that was blindness about God's warnings. Try as they might, God's psychics were not able to be heard above the din....people marching and shouting, demanding action....demanding war in Iraq. Condoleeza Rice said that we have to take the battle to them, on their soil, not ours. Former reporter, Dan Rather, tearfully begged for immediate war, before we lose our nerve and not fight. Rather claimed that he lost a lot of friends in the 911 attack.

Years ago, Reverend Martin Luther King Jr. said that it is easy to be good in good times, but the real test is when times get rough. Can we "turn the other cheek" as God wants?
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Is there to little respect from spiritual people toward those who are not spiritual or religious? How can we fix it?

Some people who think they are spiritual have absolutely no respect for other people who think they are spiritual, and sometimes they have no respect for chosen people for various reasons, sometimes they have no respect for someone because he or she is a from another group this so called "Spiritual person" doesnt like or even considers it a different sect. People who call themselves spiritual sometimes think they are "special". Spiritual does not mean special.

Once these so called "spiritual people" understand they are not so special, maybe with a little bit of that humility they will learn to respect others no matter who the others are, spiritual or not.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
The hate speech amazes me, homophobia, racism, misogyny but as long as it is couched in religion I am supposed to "respect" their beliefs. This forum has made me much more militant, off to protest at a creationist event near me today, I would never of done that six weeks a go. But these people need to be held to account.

This forum has shown me the worst of the atheists. Since of late predominantly. Most atheists are good people with a lot of humility, just like those who call themselves religious, but that's in day to day life. In this forum I have seen atheists who claim theists are stupid by default, scientifically inept, definitely delusional, low in IQ, etc etc etc. Once there was a thread on this question, and ironically, 4 atheists in that same thread made pretty open claims that theists are dumb and stupid by nature and one person even claimed they are psychologically affected or rather he put "retarded" in rosy words. Personally, one guy insulted my mother, another my child, and another my wife calling her a gold digger. The so called intellectual atheists, at least these people I am referring to have been absolutely ignorant and pretty bad in character.

Of course, this is among a Muslim who is the same in his so called "respect" insulting family, and also a Christian who was superman enough to put up a picture of a bearded man having intercourse with a child.

Thats the nature of a forum which I have come to understand. People go to forums for this and this is what you have to expect. Taking that out of this forum, into real life, and generalising what you see in this forum to others in the world is probably a pretty uneducated thing to do. Its like polls in the U.S showing people fearing death by a suicide attack while the actual chances of dying by a terrorist attack in general is lesser than dying by falling off a broken furniture.

I have studied under a fantastic Christian lecturer. I am not gonna discuss subjects but this guy taught me what a scholar should be. I also studied under an atheist, and that was not science. His scholarship is probably the best in the world, and he is well respected. The broad mind is impeccable. Of course I have studied under Muslims as well. Buddhists too. So in general life, experiences in this forum is not general to the world. If that is the case, my best friend who is an atheists should be judged by the worst experiences I had here in this forum.

Id rather not.

Cheers.
 
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