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Featured Matthew 27:46 anyone figure this out yet?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Disciple of Jesus, Mar 19, 2019.

  1. siti

    siti Well-Known Member

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    Oh is there? Well that's that settled then! I don't suppose you would care to be just a little more specific would you? Or are you just going to say the word "AMPLE" even louder next time?

    Not at all, I was, in fact, refuting your argumentum ex silentio ad populum - basically you argued that because a lot of people didn't (bother to) say anything about Christ at all, the stories told about him by a few of the earliest Christians must be true.
     
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  2. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

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    Your "fallacy" is moot! It's not "a few Christians" it's DOZENS of Christians who risked expulsion from the Jews and martydom from Rome wrote DOZENS of documents, contemporaneous to the period, and support comes from over a dozen significant Gentile historians.
     
  3. siti

    siti Well-Known Member

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    ...early first century historians - contemporaneous with Jesus? I don't suppose you would care to quote them or cite their works would you?
     
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  4. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

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    I gave a list elsewhere. It includes people you obviously haven't heard of, like LUKE and PLINY and JOSEPHUS.
     
  5. siti

    siti Well-Known Member

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    Luke? Hardly an independent witness...Pliny (the Younger) wrote a letter to Trajan - about Christians, not Christ - in 112AD - that's not contemporaneous with Christ - and Josephus wrote towards the end of the first century but did not attest directly to anything that Christ did whilst he was alive. There are references to the deaths of John the Baptist and James which seem to corroborate some of the Biblical narrative and a possible (though scholars are much more skeptical of the authenticity of this passage) confirmation of some of the details of the Crucifixion. Neither of them confirm any details of any miracles or teachings of Jesus and neither do they indicate that there were particularly huge numbers of Christians. Neither of them were born before Jesus died. Luke may have been contemporaneous with Jesus - but there is absolutely no evidence that he ever met Jesus or that he was ever in Palestine (at all as far as I know, let alone when Jesus was there). Luke may have been a gentile convert to Christianity - or he may have been a Hellenized Jew - we don't know.

    Essentially, what your earliest historical witnesses say is that - yes, there was this guy called Jesus whose followers claimed was the Christ, and he and some of his followers were executed by the Romans. I doubt anyone is contesting any of that.
     
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  6. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    To further develop this analogy, Spock is half-human because Leonard Nimoy couldn't hide all his human emotions. Like Jesus, Nimoy is just a human and the character got plot points added to fill in some holes.

    When your human teacher is killed off when you assumed he was going to go on some epic reign, defeating evil and such, you have to make up reasons why that didn't go so well, just as Star Trek had to explain this:
    [​IMG]

    Well, that's problematic because despite the assertions to the contrary, Jesus sinned all the time, from childhood onward.

    It supposedly happened to David, and the NT authors loved copy/pasting tropes from other famous people onto Jesus' story.

    He'd be Osama Bin Laden today. He was hired by the leader of the country and then betrayed and then went on lots of terrorism missions against his own people all while blaming the leader.

    Indeed. He and Judas were in on it. Jesus expected to make a big stink in front of the authorities, maybe have them bow before him and admit he was right ... but they just shook him off like some random nutjob terrorist and he started to freak out when he couldn't run anymore. Remember, people had wanted him dead for months AND HE ALWAYS RAN AWAY. That is not the attitude of someone who wants to die for anyone, let alone us specifically.

    But many deaths were made up during or after Jesus' lifetime. There is little to no evidence that Jews killed their prophets. And let's not forget that being a prophet was like how our presidents have religious people surrounding them: it's for PR, not God. Prophets were hired by kings to be yes-men, to say God gave a green light to whatever you wanted. If you botched it, you were executed, by the king, not "Jews."
     
  7. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    Those kings were Jews.

    https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/73107/did-jews-kill-any-of-their-prophet
     
  8. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Surely, you aren't serious. So according to you Jesus sinned all the time? Prove it.
     
  9. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe I have and posted more than once. Jesus is quoting a prophectic Psalm.
     
  10. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe I haven't had tea recently but I am usually good at reading them. It doesn't work with tea bags though.
     
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  11. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe that is speculation. God is in Jesus and there is no leaving.
     
  12. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Why is it speculation? This is what the Bible says.
    Why would Jesus feel God forsaking him for any other reason?

    At Luke 4:9-12 the devil tempted Jesus one last time....

    "He then led him into Jerusalem and stationed him on the battlement of the temple and said to him: “If you are a son of God, throw yourself down from here, 10 for it is written, ‘He will give his angels a command concerning you, to preserve you,’ 11 and, ‘They will carry you on their hands, so that you may not strike your foot against a stone.’” 12 In answer Jesus said to him: “It is said, ‘You must not put Jehovah your God to the test.’”

    The devil knew that God would never allow harm to come to his son until it was time for him to pay the ransom. No one laid a hand on Jesus until the very end of his mission.
     
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