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Matthew 27:46 anyone figure this out yet?

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Incarnation is not a Christian doctrine hence not found in the Bible?
Whose doctrine is this on the first place?
Where was this concept copied from?


Hinduism
Main article: Avatar

Ten incarnations of Vishnu (Matsya, Kurma, Varaha, Vamana, Krishna, Kalki, Buddha, Parshurama, Rama & Narasimha). Painting from Jaipur, now at the Victoria and Albert Museum

In Hinduism, incarnation refers to its rebirth doctrine, and in its theistic traditions to avatar.[10] Avatar literally means "descent, alight, to make one's appearance",[11] and refers to the embodiment of the essence of a superhuman being or a deity in another form.[12] The word also implies "to overcome, to remove, to bring down, to cross something".[11] In Hindu traditions, the "crossing or coming down" is symbolism, states Daniel Bassuk, of the divine descent from "eternity into the temporal realm, from unconditioned to the conditioned, from infinitude to finitude".[13] An avatar, states Justin Edwards Abbott, is a saguna (with form, attributes) embodiment of the nirguna Brahman or Atman (soul).[14]

Neither the Vedas nor the Principal Upanishads ever mentions the word avatar as a noun.[13] The verb roots and form, such as avatarana, do appear in ancient post-Vedic Hindu texts, but as "action of descending", but not as an incarnated person (avatara).[15] The related verb avatarana is, states Paul Hacker, used with double meaning, one as action of the divine descending, another as "laying down the burden of man" suffering from the forces of evil.[15]

The term is most commonly found in the context of the Hindu god Vishnu.[11][16] The earliest mention of Vishnu manifested in a human form to empower the good and fight against evil, uses other terms such as the word sambhavāmi in verse 4.6 and the word tanu in verse 9.11 of the Bhagavad Gita,[17] as well as other words such as akriti and rupa elsewhere.[18] It is in medieval era texts, those composed after the sixth century CE, that the noun version of avatar appears, where it means embodiment of a deity.[19] The incarnation idea proliferates thereafter, in the Puranic stories for many deities, and with ideas such as ansha-avatar or partial embodiments.[17][16]

While Avatars of other deities such as Ganesha and Shiva are also mentioned in medieval Hindu texts, this is minor and occasional.[20] The incarnation doctrine is one of the important differences between Vaishnavism and Shaivism traditions of Hinduism.[21][22]

Incarnation - Wikipedia
You are calling Yeshua the 'son of g- d'. Seems you need to define that, before going further.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
That isn't 'defining ' what you mean, when you say, 'son of g- d'.

You don't accept the definition
You want Jesus to be God
When the reality he is not

The use of
of
/əv/
preposition
preposition: of
  1. 1.
    expressing the relationship between a part and a whole.
    "the sleeve of his coat"
  2. 2.
    expressing the relationship between a scale or measure and a value.
    "an increase of 5 percent"
Now if the bible says God the Son
then Jesus is not the Son of God

Same is true with the name you are using
Disciple of Jesus
it would be different if you used Jesus the Disciple

Never in the bible did Jesus say God the Son
in any verse or in any occasion
Jesus is the Son of God
not God, not God-Man, not a demi God.

Since you like KJV so much
Tell me what did the apostles teach about Jesus Christ?
What do you see in Acts 2:22
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
You don't accept the definition
You want Jesus to be God
When the reality he is not

The use of
of
/əv/
preposition
preposition: of
  1. 1.
    expressing the relationship between a part and a whole.
    "the sleeve of his coat"
  2. 2.
    expressing the relationship between a scale or measure and a value.
    "an increase of 5 percent"
Now if the bible says God the Son
then Jesus is not the Son of God

Same is true with the name you are using
Disciple of Jesus
it would be different if you used Jesus the Disciple

Never in the bible did Jesus say God the Son
in any verse or in any occasion
Jesus is the Son of God
not God, not God-Man, not a demi God.

Since you like KJV so much
Tell me what did the apostles teach about Jesus Christ?
What do you see in Acts 2:22
You still aren't 'defining' what you mean, when you say 'son of g-d'.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
Let me repeat.

Just as mankind developed within the bodies of our animal ancestors, so too, 'THE SON OF MAN' develops within the great androgynous pregnant body of EVE=Mankind, and Just as each and everyone of us must pay the blood price for the sins of our flesh, and all have sinned, so too, 'THE SON OF MAN' is the only one who can pay the death penalty for the sins of the flesh in which he develops.

It was the savior of mankind, 'The Son of Man' who is the MOST HIGH In the creation, who descended from his most high point in time and filled the man Jesus with his spirit=words.

The Lord God our savior, 'The Son of Man' who is the only begotten son of God and equal to God in every way, said to Moses in Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; "I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put MY WORDS in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him. I myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to MY WORDS that the prophet speaks in my name.

This reveals that the man Jesus was not the WORD that came down from heaven, but the earthly host body through who the WORD would reveal himself to mankind.

It was the man Jesus, who the Lord chose as his heir and successor, on the day that Jesus was baptized, and the spirit of the Lord descended upon him in the form of a dove as the heavenly voice was heard to say; "You are my son (My chosen heir and successor) TODAY I have begotten thee.

And it was through his obedient servant Jesus that the Lord revealed himself to us, and the awesome sacrifice that he makes for the body in which he develops.

When on the cross, Jesus cried out; "My God, my God, why have you abandoned me," and gave up the spirit, the Lord God our savior, who cannot die, ceased to be an individual entity, by releasing all the righteous spirits that had been gathered to him in his evolutionary ascent to very heights of time, and after three days, those saints, who were the risen body of Christ, went into the city and showed themselves to many.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
You still aren't 'defining' what you mean, when you say 'son of g-d'.

From the bible
Not from my own mind
From the scriptures
Who are the son/s of God

Adam is the son of God
Luke 3:38 New International Version (NIV)
the son of Enosh,
the son of Seth, the son of Adam,
the son of God.

Jesus is the one and only son of God
John 3:18; [URL='https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+5:25&version=NIV']John 5:25; [URL='https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+11:27&version=NIV']John 11:27[/URL][/URL]

Jesus is the son of Man, as he declared he is
[URL='https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1:51&version=NIV']John 1:51; [URL='https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+6:27&version=NIV']John 6:27; [URL='https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+13:31&version=NIV']John 13:31[/URL][/URL][/URL]

What is the importance of Jesus the Christ
Jesus of Nazareth as the son of God?

In the verse, I asked you to check which you didn't provides the answer:

These words were spoken by apostle Peter who was filled with the Holy Spirit
He was addressing the people of his time - those who saw Jesus Christ:

Acts 2:22 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

“My fellow Israelites, listen to these words:
Jesus from Nazareth was a very special man.

God clearly showed this to you.
He proved it by the miracles, wonders, and miraculous signs he did through Jesus.
You all saw these things, so you know this is true.


petersink.jpg

What did Peter say about Jesus?

Did Peter say Jesus of Nazareth was God???
Did Peter say Jesus of Nazareth was the second person of the Trinitarian God???
Did Peter say Jesus of Nazareth was half God and half Man???

Peter did not say any of these but some antichrist in 325 AD taught about this
with the approval of a pagan emperor Constantine

What did apostle Peter say about Jesus?
Jesus from Nazareth was a very special man.
God clearly showed this to you.

Why is Jesus that special?
Again from the Bible

Acts 2:36 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

“So, all the people of Israel should know this for certain:

God has made Jesus to be Lord and Messiah.
He is the man you nailed to the cross!

What is the definition of the Son of God, you say?
We can be sons of God, as Adam was the first son of God. Galatians 4:6; [URL='https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+2:10&version=NIV']Hebrews 2:10[/URL]
The Son and the sons of God has the right to say "Father" to God - Gal 4:6
The sons of God will be saved on Judgement Day - Heb 2:10

With regards to Jesus
He is a very special man
God performed miracles through him
God made Jesus the title Lord and Messiah

He is not God but the man, who was nailed to the cross


And that's from the Bible
Not from me
It is very clear. If it is not, then you have a problem like Jesus said:


John 8:39-45 Expanded Bible (EXB)
They answered, “Our father is Abraham.”

Jesus said to them, “If you were really Abraham’s children, you would do the things Abraham did. I am a man who has told you the truth which I heard from God, but you are trying to kill me. Abraham did nothing like that. So you are doing the things your own father did.”

But [or Therefore] they said to him, “We are not ·like children who never knew who their father was [illegitimate children; L born from/of fornication]. God is our Father; he is the only Father we have.”

Jesus said to them, “If God were really your Father, you would love me, because I came from God and now I am here. [L For] I did not come ·by my own authority [on my own]; God sent me. You don’t understand [L Why don’t you understand…?] what I say, because you cannot ·accept my teaching [L hear my word/message]. You ·belong to [are from] your father the devil, and you want to do what he wants. He was a murderer from the beginning [Gen. 3; Rom. 5:12] and ·was against the truth [does not uphold the truth], because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, ·he shows what he is really like [he reveals his own nature; or he speaks his own language; L he speaks from his own], because he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I speak the truth, you don’t believe me.


Do you want to believe yourself instead Jesus?
Do you want to believe your priest or pastor instead of Jesus?
Your salvation is based on what you believe.

It is time to believe the truth, not the thing that you want to believe.
 

siti

Well-Known Member
Huh?

1) Explain how the Psalmist, David, got the crucifixion details right, prior to Jesus, since David never had his garments divided et al

2) Explain how you missed God has a second and third agenda with the quotation--it's like you haven't read the NT account
Huh?

1) Explain how you completely missed the point of my post...

OK, never mind...I know the answer - its because you are doing the tried and tested religious method for determining truth - decide what is true first and then try to make the evidence fit...so if the crucifixion story is unquestionably true - as you assume without a shred of evidence it must be - then it is obvious that David (or whoever was pretending to be David writing the Psalm must have known the details of the crucifixion a thousand years in advance...and how could he possibly have known that unless God revealed it to him...

I get the line of "reasoning"...but...

How do we know the details of the crucifixion as recorded in the Gospels are true? We only know this if we assume the Bible to have been written when, how and by whom the Bible itself (and in some cases not even that but only Christian tradition) attests. But suppose for a minute it wasn't. Suppose for a minute that we really have no idea who wrote the Bible and there is no reason to believe it to be inspired of God. Then when you read the crucifixion accounts alongside the Psalm would you not think - well the Psalms were written much earlier so the Gospel writer probably copied bits from it and we really have no idea what really happened or did not happen in the course of the crucifixion (if there even was a crucifixion).

So I ask you - without the assumption of divine intervention, which is the more plausible explanation for the similarities between Psalm 22 and Matthew 27? Is it more likely that the Psalmist prophesied in detail, or is it more likely that the Gospel writer plagiarized the Psalms to enhance the Messianic credentials of Jesus?
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Matthew 27:46

Deity why have you forsaken, g- d why have you forsaken...

Context seems to be, yoheshua saying the deity has forsaken him, anyone figure this out?

Sort of contradicts the other verses.
it is the same for all of us

the last hour is dealt in silence

it will no different for any of us
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
English Bible is interpretive. Or, interpreted.

John 5:25

The son the God
English
The son of g- d

I don't know what you mean.
Why do you and some people type g-d?
Are you ashamed of calling God?
When you tell people about God do you say Gee Dee?
Type God if you are sure of God.
You might be meaning Gud or Gid or Gad

Next the style of Trinitarians would be mentioning a verse
and then jump to conclusions and say there you go - Jesus is god.
Let us see the whole context of John 5:25
by continuing the read to John 5:30

John 5:25-30 New International Version (NIV)

Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

coffin.jpg


The Son of God could raise the dead

He had demonstrated that with Lazarus and the others when the Lord walked the earth.

How was the Son of God able to do that?
Because the "Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man."

Without the Father [who is God who sent Jesus Christ] what would happen?
Jesus said: "By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me."

Isn't that clear?
The Father alone is God
Without God, the Son of God can do nothing.
Therefore Jesus is not God.

Why don't people believe what Jesus said?
Why don't people believe what Jesus' apostles said?

blindedminds.jpg


2 Corinthians 4:4 New International Version (NIV)

The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
I don't know what you mean.
Why do you and some people type g-d?
Are you ashamed of calling God?
When you tell people about God do you say Gee Dee?
Type God if you are sure of God.
You might be meaning Gud or Gid or Gad

Next the style of Trinitarians would be mentioning a verse
and then jump to conclusions and say there you go - Jesus is god.
Let us see the whole context of John 5:25
by continuing the read to John 5:30

John 5:25-30 New International Version (NIV)

Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

View attachment 27691

The Son of God could raise the dead

He had demonstrated that with Lazarus and the others when the Lord walked the earth.

How was the Son of God able to do that?
Because the "Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man."

Without the Father [who is God who sent Jesus Christ] what would happen?
Jesus said: "By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me."

Isn't that clear?
The Father alone is God
Without God, the Son of God can do nothing.
Therefore Jesus is not God.

Why don't people believe what Jesus said?
Why don't people believe what Jesus' apostles said?

View attachment 27693

2 Corinthians 4:4 New International Version (NIV)


The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

The Lord God our savior, 'The Son of Man' who is the only begotten son of God and equal to God in every way, said to Moses in Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; "I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put MY WORDS in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him. I myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to MY WORDS that the prophet speaks in my name.

Name one miracle performed through Jesus, that was not the miracle of our Father?

Jesus admits that he spoke not one word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded to say by our Lord God and saviour, who chose him as the one to speak in his name, “Who I Am,” and Jesus says in John 5: 24; “Whoever hear my words (The words that he was commanded to say) and believes in “HIM” who sent me, has eternal life.

John 14: 24; “And the word which you hear is not mine, but ‘THE’ Fathers who sent me. Not “MY Father” but ‘THE’ Father of us all: “Our Father who is in heaven.”

Whose words were these in reference to the body of Jesus which had been filled by the spirit=information=words of the Lord which had descended upon him in the form of a dove? “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up?”

They were the words that Jesus was commanded to say by “Who I Am,” who raised the body of Jesus, his earthly temple, which had been filled with his spirit.

Acts 5: 30; The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you slew and hanged on a tree.

Acts 13: 30; But God raised him from the dead: and he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee, etc.

1st Corinthians 6: 14; And God has both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

2nd Corinthians 1: 9; But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead.

2nd Corinthians 4: 14; knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence. _________________________It was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, [The Son of Man] who said through his obedient servant Jesus; “Destroy this Temple and in three days I will raise it up.”

.From the Book of Jubilees 4: 30; “And He (Adam) lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: ‘On the day thou eat thereof ye shall die.’ For this reason, Adam did not complete the years of that first day; for He died during it.”

In Colossians 2: 16-17; Paul has this to say; “Let no one make rules about what you eat or drink or about holidays or the New Moon festival or the Sabbath. All these are but a shadow of things to come in the future, etc.”

Adam died in the first day at the age of 930, we are now at the closing of the sixth day, the day before the Great Sabbath that is the future reality of the weekly Sabbath, ‘The Day of the Lord’ the seventh period of one thousand years in which the lord shall rule with justice, the Great Sabbath of one thousand years.

Acts 17: 30-31; "In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by means of a MAN that he has CHOSEN He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
You don't accept the definition
You want Jesus to be God
When the reality he is not

The use of
of
/əv/
preposition
preposition: of
  1. 1.
    expressing the relationship between a part and a whole.
    "the sleeve of his coat"
  2. 2.
    expressing the relationship between a scale or measure and a value.
    "an increase of 5 percent"
Now if the bible says God the Son
then Jesus is not the Son of God

Same is true with the name you are using
Disciple of Jesus
it would be different if you used Jesus the Disciple

Never in the bible did Jesus say God the Son
in any verse or in any occasion
Jesus is the Son of God
not God, not God-Man, not a demi God.

I don't know what you mean.
John 5:25
John 11:27
The english Bible is 'interpreted'.

The word is 'the', not 'of'.

The english Bible has interpreted that to 'of'.

The son, the God.

Your entire argument is wrong, and self refuting.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
The Lord God our savior, 'The Son of Man' who is the only begotten son of God and equal to God in every way, said to Moses in Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; "I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put MY WORDS in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him. I myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to MY WORDS that the prophet speaks in my name.

Name one miracle performed through Jesus, that was not the miracle of our Father?

Jesus admits that he spoke not one word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded to say by our Lord God and saviour, who chose him as the one to speak in his name, “Who I Am,” and Jesus says in John 5: 24; “Whoever hear my words (The words that he was commanded to say) and believes in “HIM” who sent me, has eternal life.

John 14: 24; “And the word which you hear is not mine, but ‘THE’ Fathers who sent me. Not “MY Father” but ‘THE’ Father of us all: “Our Father who is in heaven.”

Whose words were these in reference to the body of Jesus which had been filled by the spirit=information=words of the Lord which had descended upon him in the form of a dove? “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up?”

They were the words that Jesus was commanded to say by “Who I Am,” who raised the body of Jesus, his earthly temple, which had been filled with his spirit.

Acts 5: 30; The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you slew and hanged on a tree.

Acts 13: 30; But God raised him from the dead: and he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee, etc.

1st Corinthians 6: 14; And God has both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

2nd Corinthians 1: 9; But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead.

2nd Corinthians 4: 14; knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence. _________________________It was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, [The Son of Man] who said through his obedient servant Jesus; “Destroy this Temple and in three days I will raise it up.”

.From the Book of Jubilees 4: 30; “And He (Adam) lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: ‘On the day thou eat thereof ye shall die.’ For this reason, Adam did not complete the years of that first day; for He died during it.”

In Colossians 2: 16-17; Paul has this to say; “Let no one make rules about what you eat or drink or about holidays or the New Moon festival or the Sabbath. All these are but a shadow of things to come in the future, etc.”

Adam died in the first day at the age of 930, we are now at the closing of the sixth day, the day before the Great Sabbath that is the future reality of the weekly Sabbath, ‘The Day of the Lord’ the seventh period of one thousand years in which the lord shall rule with justice, the Great Sabbath of one thousand years.

Acts 17: 30-31; "In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by means of a MAN that he has CHOSEN He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.

Word of advice.
It would be better to have one to three verses out.
Make sure it hits the mark.
Like a sniper rifle.


Than give out a volley of verses
On your post you gave 11 verses.
One or three would do
and you would have achieved a KO


These are the words by apostle Peter, who was filled with the Holy Spirit:

Acts 4:10 New International Version (NIV)

then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed.

Jesus Christ was raised from the dead by God
therefore Jesus Christ needed God to raise him up


Do you see how I savor the verse?

I colored the message being given by the verse.
One is red and the other is blue.
People call it green ink, but I don't care.
I'm savoring the verse.
Pointing out the message.
Giving emphasis on the post, because I could not use my voice.
Because if I would read this, I would be on the top of my lungs.
Driving the message across like a 1-2-3 combination in boxing.
That is my word of advice.:)
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
John 5:25
John 11:27
The english Bible is 'interpreted'.

The word is 'the', not 'of'.

The english Bible has interpreted that to 'of'.

The son, the God.

Your entire argument is wrong, and self refuting.

I have the feeling that you are not fluent in English
That you are in a country which doesn't use English
Am I correct, in my gut feeling?

Anyway let us examine the verses you want to deliver.

John 5:25 should be read up to John 5:30
Read the context not just one verse
Look at the whole picture
A tail might not be a tail but a snake.
Now if you find it hard to comprehend an English translation
use Spanish if you are from a Spanish speaking country
or another English translation - more understandable

John 5:25-30 Good News Translation (GNT)

I am telling you the truth: the time is coming—the time has already come—when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear it will come to life. Just as the Father is himself the source of life, in the same way he has made his Son to be the source of life. And he has given the Son the right to judge, because he is the Son of Man. Do not be surprised at this; the time is coming when all the dead will hear his voice and come out of their graves: those who have done good will rise and live, and those who have done evil will rise and be condemned.



I can do nothing on my own authority; I judge only as God tells me, so my judgment is right, because I am not trying to do what I want, but only what he who sent me wants.


Q: Is Jesus, God in John 5:25?
A: NO.
Jesus is the Son of God
Totally different from the Father
The Father is God
The Father made his Son to be the source of life
The Father has given the Son the right to judge
Now who is the true God, the Father or the Son?
The Son cannot make the Father to be the source of life. But the Father can.
The Son cannot give the right to judge to the Father. But the Father can.
The Son can do nothing on his own authority. But the Father has all the authority in the world.

Next verse John 11:27

lazarusrise.jpg


This was about the conversation of Jesus and Martha brother of Lazarus
Let us read the upper verses 25 down to 27

John 11:25-27 New International Version (NIV)


Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

“Yes, Lord,” she replied, “I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”


Does this verses prove that Jesus is God?
Nope.
Martha said: "Yes Lord, You are the Messiah, the Son of God...."

Why is the Lord Jesus Christ called Lord and Messiah?
The Best Person to ask would be Peter and the apostles after they were filled by the Holy Spirit.

peterjerusalem.jpg


Acts 2:14;36 New International Version (NIV)

14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say.

36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”


What did Peter say about Jesus?
The Jesus whom the apostles saw taken from heaven?
Peter assured that God made this Jesus to be both Lord and Messiah.
The Lordship and Messiah-ship of Jesus was God-given.

God is the giver of the titles to Jesus, be it the Son of God.

and that is in the Bible.

if it is not in the Bible - that is just Turkey [Nicaea - Wikipedia] 325 AD
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
Acts 3: 13; "The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our ancestors, has given divine glory to his servant Jesus.

That is correct.
You have to elucidate it.
So others would know.

Acts 3:13 New International Version (NIV)
13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go.

These words were spoken by apostle Peter who was with apostle John.
Jesus has long been taken up to heaven when Peter said these.
According to Peter, God has glorified his servant Jesus.

And what is the teaching of Jesus the Christ?

John 15:20 New International Version (NIV)
20 Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also.

If Jesus Christ is called God's servant
Then God is greater than Jesus Christ
and it follows that Jesus Christ is not greater than his master, the Lord God.

Jesus is not God
but what is right is
Jesus is the Son of God.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
That is correct.
You have to elucidate it.
So others would know.

Acts 3:13 New International Version (NIV)
13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go.

These words were spoken by apostle Peter who was with apostle John.
Jesus has long been taken up to heaven when Peter said these.
According to Peter, God has glorified his servant Jesus.

And what is the teaching of Jesus the Christ?

John 15:20 New International Version (NIV)
20 Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also.

If Jesus Christ is called God's servant
Then God is greater than Jesus Christ
and it follows that Jesus Christ is not greater than his master, the Lord God.

Jesus is not God
but what is right is
Jesus is the Son of God.

Of course Jesus, the son of Mary and her half-brother 'Joseph,' who were both sired by Heli=Alexander Helios, was the son of God, because we are assured that on the day he was baptized, the spirit of our Lord God and savior, descended upon him in the form of a dove, as the heavenly voice was heard to say; "You are my son, TODAY, I have begotten thee."
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
Huh?

1) Explain how you completely missed the point of my post...

OK, never mind...I know the answer - its because you are doing the tried and tested religious method for determining truth - decide what is true first and then try to make the evidence fit...so if the crucifixion story is unquestionably true - as you assume without a shred of evidence it must be - then it is obvious that David (or whoever was pretending to be David writing the Psalm must have known the details of the crucifixion a thousand years in advance...and how could he possibly have known that unless God revealed it to him...

I get the line of "reasoning"...but...

How do we know the details of the crucifixion as recorded in the Gospels are true? We only know this if we assume the Bible to have been written when, how and by whom the Bible itself (and in some cases not even that but only Christian tradition) attests. But suppose for a minute it wasn't. Suppose for a minute that we really have no idea who wrote the Bible and there is no reason to believe it to be inspired of God. Then when you read the crucifixion accounts alongside the Psalm would you not think - well the Psalms were written much earlier so the Gospel writer probably copied bits from it and we really have no idea what really happened or did not happen in the course of the crucifixion (if there even was a crucifixion).

So I ask you - without the assumption of divine intervention, which is the more plausible explanation for the similarities between Psalm 22 and Matthew 27? Is it more likely that the Psalmist prophesied in detail, or is it more likely that the Gospel writer plagiarized the Psalms to enhance the Messianic credentials of Jesus?

Good point. Under your hypothesis, it would seem far more likely that the Psalms were plagiarized.

But! Consider that IF the documents are contemporaneous to the period, thousands of Jews could have stood against them--"What?! There was no Yeshua of Nazareth here doing hundreds of miracles for thousands of people, for years!" and etc.

And! Consider that IF the document were not contemporaneous to the period, thousands of Jews would have seen them coming from a mile off, and NOT been converted and spread Christianity through the Empire. Dozens of 1st and 2nd century sources, important historians, saw this spread.
 
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