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Matthew 16:6, and some claim that Jesus /was, a Pharisee?

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Matthew 16:6

Why would Jesus use this wording, if He Himself, were a Pharisee? Or others, in His group?
Some present the idea that Jesus was/,a Pharisee, I find that idea unlikely.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Why would Jesus use this wording, if He Himself, were a Pharisee?
My understanding on that statement, is that due to the Essenes having bread that doesn't use leaven this is two part...

One implying that both Sadducees and Pharisees teachings, raise to bad values; whereas the natural ways that God provides for us are more fulfilling, as the Essenes taught.

Yeshua wasn't a Pharisee, there are too many contrary statements against their whole ethics... Matthew 5:20, Matthew 23, Luke 11:37-54, Mark 7:1-13, etc...

Though many like to pick up on only one statement saying they were hypocrites, that is only a start. :innocent:
 
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Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Matthew 16:6

Why would Jesus use this wording, if He Himself, were a Pharisee? Or others, in His group?
Some present the idea that Jesus was/,a Pharisee, I find that idea unlikely.
His views are often Pharisee, so that is why many think that he is one. I think taking the gospel as a description of Pharisees is a sure way to misunderstand what Jesus is criticizing. Approach it with knowledge of Pharisees. The 'Leaven' mentioned refers to something both Pharisees and the Sadducees teach, which Jesus opposes. Jesus does not like certain things. One thing he mentions is their discipleship method. They want disciples to be carefully selected, fully trained. He wants disciples to be trained by the holy spirit and not to be selected by men. Pharisees and Sadducees consider this chaos and madness (as would Essenes I think -- not sure about that). Pharisees say the kingdom of God has not come. Jesus says it has, and so his disciples will later allude to Jeremiah 31:34 and to Ezekiel, which both mention the day of the LORD where people worship everywhere and people don't have to teach each other. Everything is clear and fantastic. It indicates Jesus is teaching "Its not supposed to be this way where people are limited to learning in this particular format." Jesus also does not like worship to be only in the temple. He says its supposed to happen everywhere eventually, again alluding to Jeremiah and Ezekiel.

He could be a Pharisee who opposes the way that things are done. The gospels do not say he is a Pharisee, so probably he is not.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Matthew 16:6

Why would Jesus use this wording, if He Himself, were a Pharisee? Or others, in His group?
Some present the idea that Jesus was/,a Pharisee, I find that idea unlikely.

I believe there were a number of religious groups at that time in Judah. Many if not all using Hebrew scripture as their basis. Doesn't necessarily mean they were all ideologically the same.

The two surviving groups claiming lineage to that time are Christians and Jews.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
I believe there were a number of religious groups at that time in Judah. Many if not all using Hebrew scripture as their basis. Doesn't necessarily mean they were all ideologically the same.

The two surviving groups claiming lineage to that time are Christians and Jews.
That is an important fact.
 

loopus

Loopy
It's My Birthday!
I've never heard of anyone claiming Jesus was a Pharisee, and I would doubt it based on the gospels. It's possible he was an Essene.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
Why would Jesus use this wording, if He Himself, were a Pharisee? Or others, in His group?
Some present the idea that Jesus was/,a Pharisee, I find that idea unlikely.

Consider MT 23:1-3

Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples,
saying, "The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice.

Jesus seems to agree with the pharisaic interpretation of the Law as opposed to the Sadducees. I think one may say that Jesus, if he identified with a political party, it would be the Pharisees.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Consider MT 23:1-3

Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples,
saying, "The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice.

Jesus seems to agree with the pharisaic interpretation of the Law as opposed to the Sadducees. I think one may say that Jesus, if he identified with a political party, it would be the Pharisees.
We don't have to speculate on how Jesus 'interpreted' the law, that is Biblically referenced in various places.


The thread question here is literally if Jesus was a Pharisee, as opposed to another group in general identity, /which Israelite group He was associated with.
All of the groups mentioned in the scripture are Israelite/Hebraic based religious groups, using the same Hebraic basis of religious belief.

Now, considering the differences noted in book association etc between christianity and modern Judaism, it can be speculated as to when those divergenges occured, however the basis of religion tradition are the same for Essenes, Pharisees, the Church of God, 》the early christian church, and whatever differences were extant in Israel at the time.

|The thread question being, was Jesus a 'Pharisee' when He was referencing the Pharisees, or 'not a Pharisee', when He was referencing the Pharisees.
 
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pearl

Well-Known Member
|The thread question being, was Jesus a 'Pharisee' when He was referencing the Pharisees, or 'not a Pharisee', when He was referencing the Pharisees.

Since the Gospels do not attribute to Jesus belonging to any political group, there is no answer to your question beyond speculation.
 
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