Matthew 16:18

[Watchmen]

Do you know what "Peter" means in Latin?

In the Latin translation of the gospels, Jesus says: "Tu es Petrus et super hanc petram aedificabo ecclesiam meam" . That means "You are Rock". His name up to then was Simon.

So Jesus renamed him Rock. Explicitly.

Bingo! We have a winner.

 

[Watchmen]

- What did Jesus mean when He said we must eat His flesh and drink His blood? | GotQuestions.org
- What Jesus Meant When He Said, “You Must Eat My Flesh”

The above sites are NOT my site. These are Christian sites that clearly show that rational thinking Christians do NOT share your twisted belief that you MUST EAT Jesus’ flesh and drink his blood LITERALLY.

...AND I don't reject Jesus as the Messiah and a prophet, I reject your twisted belief that he's God and he came to die for your sin which you CANNOT even prove by God's Words that He sent Jesus to die for your sin or Jesus' words. that he came to die for your sin. It is you who reject God as the One and Only God and Savior!!


Just noise and more noise!!

You are SO delusional that you missed the message of Jesus in John 6 and just saw FOOD in the form of Jesus’ flesh and a glass of Jesus’ blood!!!
The fact that Jesus said, “the flesh counts for NOTHING” (John 6:63 which you quoted), should be clear to you that Jesus was speaking metaphorically as it would be silly and ridiculous for anyone to think Jesus was speaking in its literal sense, offer his flesh to be eaten and then say the flesh counts for NOTHING! That’s like someone gave you a luggage bag full of money and then said those notes are counterfeits and count for nothing! Only idiots with mental problems will still believe the counterfeit notes are legal tenders. In you, Dogknox20 is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah.

As to why the apostles accepted the words of Jesus - that’s because they NEVER took Jesus’ words literally as you did. The disciples knew Jesus more often than not, speaks figuratively, metaphorically, and in parables. In fact, they asked Jesus why he speak to the people in parables (which obviously confused the people as they tend to take the words literally just like Dogknox20) and Jesus said the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to the disciples thus. they can understand him but not to the people and that’s why they tend to take his words literally and NEVER understood Jesus’ words. So, Jesus said of these people and Dogknox20 – “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand, In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving, For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes’” – Matthew 13:13-15

…AND you STILL have not answered my questions – if you took Jesus’ words literally, then, do you believe, by eating Jesus’ flesh, you will live forever? Have you drunk deadly poison to prove your faith and belief in Jesus?? Do you have a problem in answering them truthfully??

So at the end of the day, you reveal yourself to be a Catholic-hater. Got it.

 

[JerryMyers]

So at the end of the day, you reveal yourself to be a Catholic-hater. Got it.

On the contrary. I have many Christian friends whom I consider my close friends. In fact, my neighbor is a very nice 80 years Christian man who calls me ‘son’ because I am hardly half his age. He stays alone and every now and then, I will check on him just to make sure he’s alright. Don’t judge me because you hardly know me.

So, what makes you think I am a Catholic-hater??? Because I ask questions that are uncomfortable to the Christians ??

 

[Dogknox20]

You okay?

Yes I am well and you?

There is a reason Christians eat the flesh it simply is, Christians believe the words of Jesus!

 

[Dogknox20]

- What did Jesus mean when He said we must eat His flesh and drink His blood? | GotQuestions.org
- What Jesus Meant When He Said, “You Must Eat My Flesh”

The above sites are NOT my site. These are Christian sites that clearly show that rational thinking Christians do NOT share your twisted belief that you MUST EAT Jesus’ flesh and drink his blood LITERALLY.

...AND I don't reject Jesus as the Messiah and a prophet, I reject your twisted belief that he's God and he came to die for your sin which you CANNOT even prove by God's Words that He sent Jesus to die for your sin or Jesus' words. that he came to die for your sin. It is you who reject God as the One and Only God and Savior!!


Just noise and more noise!!

You are SO delusional that you missed the message of Jesus in John 6 and just saw FOOD in the form of Jesus’ flesh and a glass of Jesus’ blood!!!
The fact that Jesus said, “the flesh counts for NOTHING” (John 6:63 which you quoted), should be clear to you that Jesus was speaking metaphorically as it would be silly and ridiculous for anyone to think Jesus was speaking in its literal sense, offer his flesh to be eaten and then say the flesh counts for NOTHING! That’s like someone gave you a luggage bag full of money and then said those notes are counterfeits and count for nothing! Only idiots with mental problems will still believe the counterfeit notes are legal tenders. In you, Dogknox20 is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah.

As to why the apostles accepted the words of Jesus - that’s because they NEVER took Jesus’ words literally as you did. The disciples knew Jesus more often than not, speaks figuratively, metaphorically, and in parables. In fact, they asked Jesus why he speak to the people in parables (which obviously confused the people as they tend to take the words literally just like Dogknox20) and Jesus said the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to the disciples thus. they can understand him but not to the people and that’s why they tend to take his words literally and NEVER understood Jesus’ words. So, Jesus said of these people and Dogknox20 – “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand, In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving, For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes’” – Matthew 13:13-15

…AND you STILL have not answered my questions – if you took Jesus’ words literally, then, do you believe, by eating Jesus’ flesh, you will live forever? Have you drunk deadly poison to prove your faith and belief in Jesus?? Do you have a problem in answering them truthfully??

Right off.... Are you saying: Jesus spent most of the chapter John 6 saying: His flesh is real food.. You MUST eat his living flesh.. Then "You want to believe" he turns around and says.. "Forgetaboutit" all I just taught you is only metaphor it means nothing! Is Jesus saying reject all I just told you, it means nothing!

JerryMyers Second point... These words of Jesus "The words I have spoken"; Are Past Tense!
Question what are the word Jesus had spoken? The answer is .. They are all the words above all of these words GIVE LIFE! JerryMyers Believe the words and have eternal life! Believe the words "they are full of the Spirit and life”

Third Point...
JerryMyers Are you saying the Flesh of Jesus means nothing!? The flesh of Jesus died on the cross and rose again, the Flesh of Jesus means everything!

Forth and most important point...
JerryMyers From verse # 45 down to verse #59 is the TEACHING of God..
45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.
59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

All in-between is God teaching you.. Eat my flesh it is LIFE it is Spirit! All in-between except verse #52 52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
JerryMyers God cannot lie.. God cannot teach lies!
Jews are NOT Christians .. Christians believe the words of Jesus.. Martin Luther ate the flesh of Jesus! Christians have always eaten the flesh of Jesus!

 

[metis]

You don’t have to wait to be addressed to you before you can comment – this is an open debate forum and unless specified, you are free to comment on any thread in this forum.

Then again, how do you have an intelligent discussion with anyone who is just good in quoting verses (which anyone can easily do) and refuse to explain why he quoted those verses and the reason….wait for it….because he did not want to get into ‘some sort of a debate’……in a debate forum??! I will say that makes having an intelligent discussion with someone like that virtually impossible, don’t you think so??


By his words and his works, of course. Didn’t Jesus said, ‘The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me’ – John 10:25 ??


Easy - understand what God and His prophets said, and if you get diverted or digressed from them, then, you are a lost soul. For example, God Himself said He is the ONLY ONE God/Lord, and apart from Him, there’s no Savior - “I, even I, am the LORD, and APART FROM ME there is NO SAVIOR.” - Isaiah 43:11.

So, if you hold a belief that Jesus is also God and he’s the only true savior who came to save you by dying for your sin, then, you have ignored God’s Words in Isaiah 43:11. When God decreed that apart from Him, there is no Savior, it means EXACTLY just that = no one can truly save you EXCEPT for God Himself. Prophets, including Jesus and Muhammad, can only show the WAY to be saved but only God can TRULY save you and that’s why Jesus, in the Lord’s Prayer, taught you to seek forgiveness from God, not from him.



Well, your impression does not change the fact that Jesus never came to die for your sin and that’s why you will NEVER find a single passage in the whole Bible where Jesus said or implied he came to die for your sin or believing that will give you eternal life – PROVE ME WRONG!

Because I stand by my last post, and your post above confirms that I made the right decision. When you throw insults around like it's candy at a parade, why should I even be slightly interested in trying to have a serious discussion with you?

 

[Watchmen]

On the contrary. I have many Christian friends whom I consider my close friends. In fact, my neighbor is a very nice 80 years Christian man who calls me ‘son’ because I am hardly half his age. He stays alone and every now and then, I will check on him just to make sure he’s alright. Don’t judge me because you hardly know me.

So, what makes you think I am a Catholic-hater??? Because I ask questions that are uncomfortable to the Christians ??

There’s a distinction between Catholics and Christians. I judge you by your posts, which have appeared increasingly hostile.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why would God build a church on a mortal human when his own son Jesus is right there?

Because the book was written by early Christians looking for support that their church hierarchy was legitimate?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes I am well and you?

There is a reason Christians eat the flesh it simply is, Christians believe the words of Jesus!

I think you may have quoted the wrong person.

Seems there was a whole sub-conversation in this thread that I haven't been a part of.

 

[nPeace]

Because Jesus then names Peter (who was Simon up to that point) "Peter" (actually "Petros"... i.e. "rock").

It's pretty obvious in the passage.

Ah. How often have people had to confess that they were obviously wrong about what seemed obvious to them, simply because they failed to consider all the facts.

 

[nPeace]

You okay?

Good question.
Some passionate preachers I have seen, do tend to "get in the spirit".

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Ah. How often have people had to confess that they were obviously wrong about what seemed obvious to them, simply because they failed to consider all the facts.

Were you aware that "Peter" means "rock"?

 

[Dogknox20]

Ah. How often have people had to confess that they were obviously wrong about what seemed obvious to them, simply because they failed to consider all the facts.

.
nPeace I hope all is well... I have to point out.. The Facts consider this.. Jesus did not build his church on sand.. His church will never fail it is built on ROCK!

nPeace The facts are; God changed Simons name to ROCK! Jesus did not build on sand. but on ROCK!. To think the Church Jesus established failed is to call Jesus "A fool"!
Matt 7:26
But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.
nPeace Is Jesus a Fool?! 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Matt 10:2 These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John;
Mark 3:16 These are the twelve he appointed: Simon (to whom he gave the name Peter),
Luke 6:14 Simon (whom he named Peter), his brother Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew,
John 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas” (which, when translated, is Peter).

nPeace Jesus changed Simons name to "ROCK"! The ROCK is the Key Holder, the Shepherd of God' holy flock!

Matt 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
Do you see it.. "You are ROCK"!

 

[nPeace]

Were you aware that "Peter" means "rock"?

Heard it so many times in this thread, but as was pointed out by my friend @URAVIP2ME Peter means "a piece of rock"
Or better yet, it can mean a small stone, such as a pebble.
HELPS Word-studies
4074 Pétros (a masculine noun) – properly, a stone (pebble), such as a small rock found along a pathway. 4074 /Pétros ("small stone") then stands in contrast to 4073 /pétra ("cliff, boulder," Abbott-Smith).

"4074 (Pétros) is an isolated rock and 4073 (pétra) is a cliff" (TDNT, 3, 100). "4074 (Pétros) always means a stone . . . such as a man may throw, . . . versus 4073 (pétra), a projecting rock, cliff" (S. Zodhiates, Dict).

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
Peter, rock.
Apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock (larger than lithos); as a name, Petrus, an apostle -- Peter, rock. Compare Kephas.

So Jesus is saying to Peter, "You are a rock".
Yes. A rock can be very small in size, if that's what you are asking.
What does that have to do with ignoring other facts though?

 

[nPeace]

.
nPeace I hope all is well... I have to point out.. The Facts consider this.. Jesus did not build his church on sand.. His church will never fail it is built on ROCK!

nPeace The facts are; God changed Simons name to ROCK! Jesus did not build on sand. but on ROCK!. To think the Church Jesus established failed is to call Jesus "A fool"!
Matt 7:26
But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.
nPeace Is Jesus a Fool?! 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Matt 10:2 These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John;
Mark 3:16 These are the twelve he appointed: Simon (to whom he gave the name Peter),
Luke 6:14 Simon (whom he named Peter), his brother Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew,
John 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas” (which, when translated, is Peter).

nPeace Jesus changed Simons name to "ROCK"! The ROCK is the Key Holder, the Shepherd of God' holy flock!

Matt 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
Do you see it.. "You are ROCK"!

Yes, to believe that Jesus established such a failed system that failed the people in such a significant way, would actually be like thinking Jesus is more than a fool.

The Medieval Church
Religious practice in medieval Europe (c. 476-1500 CE) was dominated and informed by the Catholic Church. The majority of the population was Christian, and “Christian” at this time meant “Catholic” as there was initially no other form of that religion. The rampant corruption of the medieval Church, however, gave rise to reformers such as John Wycliffe (l. 1330-1384 CE) and Jan Hus (l. c. 1369-1415 CE) and religious sects, condemned as heresies by the Church, such as the Bogomils and Cathars, among many others. Even so, the Church maintained its power and exercised enormous influence over people's daily lives from the king on his throne to the peasant in the field.

The Church regulated and defined an individual's life, literally, from birth to death and was thought to continue its hold over the person's soul in the afterlife. The Church was the manifestation of God's will and presence on earth, and its dictates were not to be questioned, even when it was apparent that many of the clergy were working far more steadily toward their own interests than those of their god.

 

[Dogknox20]

Yes, to believe that Jesus established such a failed system that failed the people in such a significant way, would actually be like thinking Jesus is more than a fool.

The Medieval Church
Religious practice in medieval Europe (c. 476-1500 CE) was dominated and informed by the Catholic Church. The majority of the population was Christian, and “Christian” at this time meant “Catholic” as there was initially no other form of that religion. The rampant corruption of the medieval Church, however, gave rise to reformers such as John Wycliffe (l. 1330-1384 CE) and Jan Hus (l. c. 1369-1415 CE) and religious sects, condemned as heresies by the Church, such as the Bogomils and Cathars, among many others. Even so, the Church maintained its power and exercised enormous influence over people's daily lives from the king on his throne to the peasant in the field.

The Church regulated and defined an individual's life, literally, from birth to death and was thought to continue its hold over the person's soul in the afterlife. The Church was the manifestation of God's will and presence on earth, and its dictates were not to be questioned, even when it was apparent that many of the clergy were working far more steadily toward their own interests than those of their god.

.
nPeace I hope all is well..
Back to Jesus' Church built on Peter not on sand.. This means The Church will never fail! Scriptures are very clear.. "Jesus is ALWAYS with the ONLY Church he established to the very end of time"! This means Jesus is still with the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church today.. No other church is Apostolic or Holy (The Body of Christ)

"The Holy Spirit is guiding the Church into all truth FOREVER!"
John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—
John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

Being Apostolic the Holy Catholic Church has the authority given to her by Jesus to remove or retain sins..
John 20:21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Being Apostolic the Holy Catholic Church has the authority given to her by Jesus through the first Shepherd to speak for Jesus in his name!
nPeace I could go on and on.. I just want to make it clear.. Your article about the failing of the Catholic Church is not the end of her; she is Still the body of Jesus today! She still has the Authority of Jesus and still guided by God today into all truth!
The Catholic Church being the Body of Jesus honors our Mother Mary, she is the Mother of the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church the body of Jesus!

 

[exchemist]

Ah. How often have people had to confess that they were obviously wrong about what seemed obvious to them, simply because they failed to consider all the facts.

The key fact, surely, is that the name Peter means rock and was given to Simon by Jesus, saying that on this rock he would build his church.

You can’t build a structure on a pebble, so it makes no sense pretending Jesus meant pebble.

 

[JerryMyers]

Right off.... Are you saying: Jesus spent most of the chapter John 6 saying: His flesh is real food.. You MUST eat his living flesh.. Then "You want to believe" he turns around and says.. "Forgetaboutit" all I just taught you is only metaphor it means nothing! Is Jesus saying reject all I just told you, it means nothing!

Right off…… It’s NOT me who said “The flesh counts to NOTHING”, it’s Jesus himself (read your Bible). Do you want to believe he never said that??! BUT he did say that … and he said that AFTER he said all those ‘eat my flesh, drink my blood….’, so, go figure!

JerryMyers Second point... These words of Jesus "The words I have spoken"; Are Past Tense!
Question what are the word Jesus had spoken? The answer is .. They are all the words above all of these words GIVE LIFE! JerryMyers Believe the words and have eternal life! Believe the words "they are full of the Spirit and life”

Second point…..yes, it’s past tense and it’s good to know that you know your grammar, good for you!

‘The words I have spoken’ is NOT a reference to ‘eat my flesh, drink my blood as you perceived… and how could anyone even believe that LITERALLY, especially AFTER Jesus had made it EXPLICITLY CLEAR that his flesh counts to NOTHING??

‘The words I have spoken’ is CLEARLY a reference to his preaching and his preaching is ‘full of Spirit and life’. Then, again, isn’t the preaching of ALL prophets is full of Spirit and life too ???

Much of the confusion and the angst of Jesus’ preaching come from the physical symbolism he used. Examples of the physical symbolism Jesus used in his preaching are –
‘I am the bread …..’ (John 6:36)
‘I am the Light ….’ (John 8:12),
‘I am the door…...’ (John 10:9).
-they are ferocious wolves (Matthew 7:15)… and if you are to take these words of physical symbolism LITERALLY, then, you are going to miss the message Jesus was preaching.

You can find physical symbolism all over the OT too, for example,,
- dragon/serpent/snake/monster to refer to Satan or his agency (Isaiah 27:1, Isaiah 30:6, Psalm 74:13-14)
- Beast to refer to kingdom/political power/government (Daniel 7:17, Daniel 7:23)
- Tongue to refer to language or speech (Exodus 4:10)…..

So, it’s not surprising that Jesus too will follow the tradition of the OT (of using physical symbolism) in his preaching… the only problem is, as you have repeatedly proven, even today, in the 21st Century, there are still people who took Jesus’ words of physical symbolism LITERALLY.

Third Point...
JerryMyers Are you saying the Flesh of Jesus means nothing!? The flesh of Jesus died on the cross and rose again, the Flesh of Jesus means everything!

Third Point……third point…yes…, the third point… well, it’s a repeat of the ‘Right off…’ point above, isn’t it??

Forth and most important point...
JerryMyers From verse # 45 down to verse #59 is the TEACHING of God..
45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.
59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

Forth and most important point….. ALL prophets are taught by God and it would be wrong to say otherwise. Most parts of Jesus’ preaching come from the physical symbolism he used which should NOT be taken literally - see the second point above.

All in-between is God teaching you.. Eat my flesh it is LIFE it is Spirit! All in-between except verse #52 52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
JerryMyers God cannot lie.. God cannot teach lies!
Jews are NOT Christians .. Christians believe the words of Jesus.. Martin Luther ate the flesh of Jesus! Christians have always eaten the flesh of Jesus!

God NEVER taught you to eat flesh and drink blood, so, don't put words in God's mouth... and I have told you before the reason the Jews began to argue among themselves just like you are arguing with me now, was because the Jews, like you, took Jesus’ words of physical symbolism LITERALLY!

Christians, like you, may think they believe the words of Jesus, BUT, the more important is - do the Christians, like you, understand the physical symbolic words of Jesus?? Based from your comments which reflect your understanding, they, like you, CLEARLY don’t!

…AND you STILL have not answered my questions – if you took Jesus’ words literally, then, do you believe, by eating Jesus’ flesh, you will live forever? Have you drunk deadly poison to prove your faith and belief in Jesus??

 

[JerryMyers]

Because I stand by my last post, and your post above confirms that I made the right decision. When you throw insults around like it's candy at a parade, why should I even be slightly interested in trying to have a serious discussion with you?

What right decision is that??? That you refused to explain your posting of just quoting verses??! Then why even quote those verses in the first place if you have no interest to explain them?? I should be the one who should be saying to you - why should I even be slightly interested in trying to have a serious discussion with you?

Can you really have a serious discussion with someone who has no interest to explain or clarify his/her comment?? That’s like trying to have a serious discussion with a six months old baby boy who just threw his milk bottle to the floor!!

 

[JerryMyers]

There’s a distinction between Catholics and Christians. I judge you by your posts, which have appeared increasingly hostile.

Which denomination of Christianity one belongs to or which Faith one believes in, makes no difference to me because I respond to the comments made, NOT to what Faith or which denomination of Christianity one belongs to.

So, tell me, which comment(s) of mine gives you the impression that I am a ‘Catholic-hater’ ??