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Featured Matthew 16:18

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by nPeace, Aug 10, 2021.

  1. Bethel

    Bethel Member

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    [QUOTE="JerryMyers, post: 7318310, member: 70023" Whoever eats this bread will live forever. [/QUOTE]


    The word of God, is bread.
    So, this is spiritual truth, as found as spiritual light, that is the word of God.

    2 Ways to consume.....

    One is to BELIEVE, and the other is to STUDY.

    There is also, "communion" which is the wine and bread, that Christians partake of, as a symbolic remembrance, of the shed blood and death of Christ on the Cross.

    "eating the Bread", = Jesus is the "bread of Life", .................= is to BELIEVE.
     
  2. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Repeating dishonesty does not miraculously make it honest.

    On top of that, you misrepresent the "Veneration of Mary", which is what your Wikipedia link even labels it, so as for you to twist it to then become the "Cult of Mary". Could you be any more dishonest as your own link shows.

    And then you completely misrepresent the issues of "repentance"/"penance" as used in the Bible itself and then the Church.

    As far as me learning about what the Church teaches, even though I was attending a fundamentalist Protestant church back then, I took two Catholic theology courses during my undergrad years, and I've taught it to adults for 15 years now, so I think I've got a pretty good handle on it.
     
  3. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    The Church has used "penance" much earlier than Jerome's time, so against you simply do not know what you're talking about. And you seem to conveniently forget what Jesus said to the Apostles about they having the power to power to bind & loosen sins.
     
  4. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    Scriptures please... Post scriptures that tell us Paul is the shepherd!

    15 When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?”
    “Yes, Lord,” he said, “you know that I love you.”
    Jesus said, “Feed my lambs.
    16 Again Jesus said, “Simon son of John, do you love me?”
    He answered, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.”
    Jesus said, “Take care of my sheep.
    17 The third time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?”
    Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, “Do you love me?” He said, “Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you.”
    Jesus said, “Feed my sheep
    .

    Bethel Did you see it? “Take care of my sheep.

    All you have is your own OPINION! I post scriptures God' holy words.... You MUST reject the words of God to reject Jesus' holy Church!
    Jesus is ALWAYS with his Church to the very end of TIME! The verse tells you he cannot be your man made church! He never will leave the ONLY Church not built on sand He builds on Peter!
     
  5. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    Luke 22:19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.
    Do this...
    JerryMyers Do what? EAT! this is the Bread!

    Jesus is the new Passover unblemished Lamb! (They did not break the legs of Jesus) ALL Passover meals MUST be eaten!
    If you eat the flesh of Jesus without recognizing it for what it is you CONDEMN yourself!
    Paul and all the apostles ate the flesh of Jesus! All except Judas.. Judas ate and Satan entered him he condemned himself!

    27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.

    1 Corinthians 5:7 Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.

    Can't sin against a SYMBOL! Fact is all who have communion with a SYMBOL is committing IDOLTRY! Communion root word "Communicate"!
     
  6. JerryMyers

    JerryMyers Member

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    Well, not really. Bread is considered as one of the staple food, thus, bread is often a colloquial term to describe as the necessity to sustain life. For instance, a breadwinner is one who is the sole source of income for his/her family. So, when Jesus said, “I am the bread of life”, he’s actually claiming monopoly that he’s the sole source of guiding people to the eternal life in his lifetime. In fact, all prophets are the bread of life in their respective lifetimes.

    Saying, “I am the bread of life” is the same as Jesus saying, “I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” – John 14:6. In Moses’ lifetime, Moses was the bread of life and the way, the truth and the life and no one comes to (know) God except through Moses – if not through Moses, who else can the people in Moses’ time turn to ?

    And yes, ‘eating the bread’ is a figure of speech to mean to believe, BUT, it’s NOT to believe that Jesus died for the sin of man for man to have eternal life, it’s to believe in his preaching and to believe in the true God who sent him. You are NOT going to find a single verse or passage in your WHOLE Bible which quoted Jesus as saying you must believe he came to die for your sin to have eternal life – THAT’s a man-made belief developed long after Jesus is gone. You can prove me wrong by quoting a verse or passage in your own Bible where Jesus said or implied that you must believe he came to die for your sin so that by his death, you can have eternal life. Question is – can you??
     
  7. JerryMyers

    JerryMyers Member

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    What are you trying to tell me ?? That Paul and Jesus’ disciples ate Jesus’ flesh ??!! That Jesus died for your sin??? Is that what this is all about ??? Then, I will ask you the same thing I asked Bethel - quote a verse or passage in your own Bible where Jesus said or implied that you must believe he came to die for your sin so that by his death, you can have eternal life. Question is – can you??
     
  8. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    1. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me (John 6:54-57).

    2. For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes (1 Corinthians 11:26).

    3. They devoted themselves to the teaching of the apostles and to the communal life, to the breaking of the bread and to the prayers. Awe came upon everyone, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles (Acts 2:42-43).

    4. Because the loaf of bread is one, we, though many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf (1 Corinthians 10:17).

    5. I am the bread of life. Your ancestors ate the manna in the desert, but they died; this is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die
    (John 6:48-50).
     
  9. JerryMyers

    JerryMyers Member

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    Well, as I said before, anyone can quote verses from the scripture. So, tell me, metis, by quoting those verses, what message(s) are you trying to convey??
     
  10. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    Yes, anyone can quote from Scripture, the interesting thing is which verses one chooses to take literally. As is so often the case those of us who are firm literalists deny especially John 6: 54-57.
     
  11. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    It should be obvious in light of what you had asked for in #107.

    Now, with that being said, interpretation can certainly be a bugger at times. ;)
     
  12. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    JerryMyers Jesus came to earth to die as a sacrifice to save us from sin and death!
    Exodus 12:27 then tell them, ‘It is the Passover sacrifice to the Lord, who passed over the houses of the Israelites in Egypt and spared our homes when he struck down the Egyptians.’” Then the people bowed down and worshiped.

    JerryMyers all Passover meals MUST be eaten! Jesus is the NEW unblemished Lame he is the SACRAFICE that saves all who eat!
    1 Corinthians 5:7 Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.
     
  13. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    Yes that is exactly what Christians have always believed and did!
    JerryMyers Christians eat the flesh of Jesus.. Jews are NOT Christians.. 52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

    53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
    54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
    55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.
    56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.
    57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
    58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever
    .”

    JerryMyers ....For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.
    Ignatius of Antioch
    “I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ . . . and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible” (Letter to the Romans 7:3 [A.D. 110]).

    Justin Martyr
    For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus” (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151])
     
  14. JerryMyers

    JerryMyers Member

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    Yes, interpretation can certainly be a bugger at times, but, I would not want to judge you without knowing your interpretation of those verses you quoted in Post #108 and more importantly, how do those verses implied that Jesus was sent to die for your sin so that, by his death you can have eternal life. You can skip the verses in points 2, 3 and 4 of your post #108 as those are not Jesus’ words.
     
  15. JerryMyers

    JerryMyers Member

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    What has Exodus 12:27 got to do with Jesus ?? Because of what Paul said ???! So, Christians like you look into the OT and found the term ‘Passover sacrifice’ in Exodus 12:27 and connect that with what Paul said in 1 Corr.5:7, just like how Christians like you connect the phrase ‘I am’ in John 8:58 with the phrase ‘I Am what I Am’ in Exodus 3:14 and claim Jesus is the great ‘I Am’ because God also said ‘I Am’, when the passages of John 8 and Exodus 3 are NOT even related to one another ??!

    So, let me repeat my question again - quote a verse or passage in your own Bible where Jesus said or implied that you must believe he came to die for your sin so that by his death, you can have eternal life. Question is – can you??
     
  16. JerryMyers

    JerryMyers Member

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    Don’t think many Christians will agree with you on that, that is, believing ’literally eating Jesus’ flesh’, at least not the Christians I know, who, according to them, most Christians would know when to take Jesus’ words literally and when to take them figuratively. but, that’s not the gist of my question.

    So, let me try to put it differently – whatever, you choose to believe, you believe because you want to have the eternal life, right? Else, why would you choose to believe a certain belief?

    Christians believe Jesus died for their sin and this belief will save them and take them to the eternal life. But is that what Jesus preached or is that the preaching of some other people, which over the ages, has been taken as the ‘truth’. As the saying goes, ‘If one keeps telling the same lie over and over again, one day that lie will be accepted as the truth’.

    So, how do you know, this preaching of ‘Jesus must die for the sin of man so that upon his death, mankind can be saved and have eternal life’ ?? The logical and rational answer is to find out whether Jesus himself believed in such preaching. If Jesus himself believed in such preaching, then, he would have said it or implied of such preaching to his disciples. Thus, my question – can you quote a verse or passage in your own Bible where Jesus said or implied that you must believe he came to die for your sin so that by his death, you can have eternal life. Question is – can you??
     
  17. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    Their are many Bible verses that call Jesus the Rock.
     
  18. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    It really should be obvious even if you were to solidly disagree with someone's interpretation. Because it should be so obvious, and because I have "no irons in this fire", I really have no desire to take this any further as some sort of debate.
     
  19. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    There can be more than one "rock", ya know, but the most important "rock", namely the "Cornerstone", is only applied to Jesus.

    Again, to repeat as I have already have numerous times here, it is Jesus who changes Simon's name to "Kephas", which is Aramaic for "rock" or "stone", and I would suggest that Jesus changed Peter's name to "Kephas" for a reason. This should be more than obvious if one reads Matthew 16[18] v-e-r-y c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y, especially the first part since he had already renamed Simon prior to that narrative.

    IOW, it's quite obviously Jesus is using a play on words, which does become a bit more complicated when going from Aramaic to gender-sensitive Greek.
     
  20. JerryMyers

    JerryMyers Member

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    It really should be obvious’ does not apply in a forum board with members of various faiths and beliefs and because of that, it should be obvious (to you) that you need to explain to the readers why you quoted those verses.

    When you simply quote verses from the scripture (which anyone can do) without any explanation as to why you quoted those verses, then, you are either unable to logically explain your understanding of those verses you quoted OR you are just assuming and hoping readers of your comments are of the same mind and belief as you, in which case, you are in the wrong forum board…..especially when you are just interested in quoting verses only and have no desire to offer any explanation as it might put you into some sort of debate.
     
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