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Featured Matthew 16:18

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by nPeace, Aug 10, 2021.

  1. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The language of the gospel of Matthew is pretty much in the air. As a tax collector, collecting taxes for the government, he most likely also spoke Greek along with Aramaic of the other apostles. The know little scholars argue between Greek, Aramaic, and Hebrew. The bible you use was most likely a copy from the Greek version, and not from some Aramaic source.
    Your quote from John 21:17 is with respect to John pointing out, with tongue in cheek, that Peter was none other than the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:16-17, who wouldn't feed, care or tend the sheep, but who would be used to "pasture" the "flock doomed for slaughter" (Gentile church)(Zechariah 11:7). John couldn't say it out loud because of what Yeshua commanded in Matthew 13:28-29. Whereas Peter told Yeshua he loved him 3 times in John 21:17, he also told Yeshua he would not leave him 3 times, but because of Zechariah 13:7, Yeshua knew Peter would leave him (scatter), and that he would not feed, care, or tend the sheep (Zechariah 11:16).
    As for what a cornerstone is, it is a foundation stone which happens to be located at the corner.
     
  2. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Yes. That's correct. I'm glad you agree. Peter is a member of that body, is that not so?

    Correct again. Because the congregation is build on the solid rock, it will stand.
    Only those made to stumble, and reject the rock will not stand.
    Romans 9:33
    as it is written: “Look! I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, but the one who rests his faith on it will not be disappointed.”
    1 Peter 2:6-8
    For it says in Scripture: “Look! I am laying in Zion a chosen stone, a precious foundation cornerstone, and no one exercising faith in it will ever be disappointed.” It is to you, therefore, that he is precious, because you are believers; but to those not believing, “the stone that the builders rejected, this has become the chief cornerstone” and “a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense.” They are stumbling because they are disobedient to the word. To this very end they were appointed.

    Notice that you have not responded to my questions. Why not?
    Recall, the Pharisees kept silent when Jesus questioned them too. To answer would put them in trouble with the people. Remaining silent did not get them off the hook. Not only were they self condemned. They were condemned by the one who knew their wicked heart.

    So I ask again... How many rocks were the congregation built on?
    If Peter is the rock the congregation is built on, where does that leave Christ... or John, Nathaniel, etc. ...?
    1 Corinthians 3:11
    For no one can lay any other foundation than what is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

    Ephesians 2:20
    and you have been built up on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, while Christ Jesus himself is the foundation cornerstone.

    Are you going by scripture, or is this what you want to believe, because you like the Catholic?
    What will save us is not what we like.
    Remember, the religious leaders of Jesus' day only made their followers a subject of fiery Gehenna.
    Jesus warned against the false prophets. Matthew 7:13-23

    Yes. Jesus build on rock - solid rock, and the one upon whom that rock falls, would be what?
    King James Bible
    And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.


    :laughing: How thankful I am to have had my brain washed of the lies we all were made to believe from apostate Christianity that infiltrated the world with false doctrines, after the death of the apostles.

    It's so refreshing to be free from those lies. ;)

    :laughing:

    The largest charity? What does that have to do with God and Christ?
    Robin Hood was probably the largest charity of all the criminals of his day.
    You do know how he acquired his wealth, don't you?
    (Revelation 18:15-17) 15 “The merchants who sold these things, who became rich from her, will stand at a distance because of their fear of her torment and will weep and mourn, 16saying: ‘Too bad, too bad, the great city, clothed with fine linen, purple, and scarlet and richly adorned with gold ornaments, precious stones, and pearls, 17because in one hour such great riches have been devastated!’. . .

    All it takes is one hour. :)

    I can probably hear the call going out... Extra, Extra, Read all about it.
    From the persecution of the early Christians in ancient Rome, through the terrors of the anti-heresy witchhunts of the notorious Grand Inquisitor, Torquemada, to papal collaboration with the Nazis during World War II, Dark History of the Catholic Church tells the stories of heretics and pogroms, Mother Teresa and martyred priests, papal purges and crooked clergy, false prophets and faithless pontiffs. Illustrated with 180 photographs, paintings, and illustrations, Dark History of the Catholic Church reveals the infamous underside of the world’s oldest Christian faith.

    Do you really know the history of this entity, you are claiming Jesus has anything to do with.
    Jesus is not Satan, and Jesus surely has never condoned evil, sadistic acts upon humankind.
    Do you associate Jesus with such crimes?

    [​IMG]

    I mean, have you seen these pictures?
    Don't they make people cry, "My God!"

    Regarding Bibles, history tells us, it was not the efforts of the Catholic church, that helped millions, but rather, it was the efforts of sincere, honest hearted ones, that brought spiritual enlightenment to the world.
    Perhaps you don't know the history of those who were opposed and murdered by your "holy church". Reading up on the history of honest men like John Wycliffe, William Tyndale, and others.
    Do you know what your "holy popes" thought of such people who tried to make the Bible available to all men?

    History paints a different picture to what you are trying to present here.
    The Mafia looks good in their suits too, but look under their coats; check their fingernails; check the trunk of their cars; their closets; scan their bathroom floors...

    You ought to check where Jesus is seeing.
    Remember...
    [​IMG]
     
    #42 nPeace, Aug 19, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2021
  3. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Here are Jesus words - the one that matters.
    (John 15:17-19) 17 “These things I command you, that you love one another. 18 If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you. 19 If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you.

    (John 17:16, 17) 16 They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world. 17 Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth.

    (John 13:34, 35) 34 I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are my disciples - if you have love among yourselves.”

    (Matthew 5:44-46) 44 However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing?

    How do you love your enemy, when pointing a gun to his head, or planting a mine, and hoping he walks on it?
     
  4. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    nPeace you ask.. How many rocks were the congregation built on?
    Jesus built his Church on ROCK... Peter is ROCK! Singular ONE ROCK!
    One CHURCH! One FOUNDATION!

    The Builder is not a fool Jesus did not build on sand... Jesus is ALWAYS with his Church to the very end of time.. Jesus started with his ONE Holy Church he is still with her to the present day!
    The One Holy Catholic Church Jesus established before he ascended is "Apostolic" this means it has roots back to the Apostles 2000 plus years ago! NO OTHER....

    nPeace
    no other Holy Church has been established by Jesus except the one he built on Peter the Chief Shepherd, the Key Holder!

    Daniel 2:44In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.
     
  5. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    Here are Jesus' words...

    John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever
    nPeace Scriptures tell you The Holy Spirit is Guiding the ONE Church Jesus established on ROCK (not sand) FOEVER!

    John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
    nPeace All the TRUTH means God is NOT guiding your Church there can only be One Truth! Guiding FOREVER means he is STILL Guiding the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church today!

    30 – 64 Peter (the apostle)
    64 – 78 Linus
    78 – 88 Anacletus
    90 – 99 Clement I (aka Clement of Rome)
    99 – 106 Evaristus
    106 – 116 Alexander I
    116 – 125 Sixtus I
    125 – 137 Telephorus
    137 – 141 Hyginus
    141 – 155 Pius I
    155 – 166 Anicetus
    166 – 175 Soter
    175 – 189 Eleutherius
    189 – 199 Victor
    199 – 217 Zephyrinus
    217 – 223 Callistus I (Hippolytus split and formed his own congregation in Rome when Callistus took office)
    223 – 230 Urban 1
    Jul. 230 – Sept. 235 Pontian
    Nov. 235 – Jan. 236 Anterus
    Nov. 236 – Jan. 250 Fabian
    Mar. 251 – Jun. 253 Cornelius (Novatian left the church during Cornelius' reign, and Novatianism spread and lasted until late in the 4th century, when the end of persecution made their division unnecessary)
    Jun. 253 – Mar. 254 Lucius I
    May 254 – Aug. 257 Stephen I (had much dissension with St. Cyprian of Carthage over the rebaptism of heretics)
    Aug. 257 – Aug. 258 Sixtus II
    Jul. 259 – Dec. 268 Dionysius
    Jan. 269 – Dec. 274 Felix I
    Jan. 275 – Dec. 283 Eutychian
    Dec. 283 – Apr. 296 Caius (or Gaius)
    Jun. 296 – Apr. 304 Marcellinus
    etc
    etc
    265 popes to Frances today!

    Here are Scriptures.... God' holy Word!
    1 Timothy 3:15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
    nPeace One Church; One Pillar of TRUTH!
    "I am with you ALWAYS to the end of time"!
    ALWAYS WITH means he is still with his One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church to this very day!
     
  6. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Question: How many rocks were the congregation built on?

    Your words...
    Singular ONE ROCK!
    One CHURCH! One FOUNDATION!


    Scripture:
    1 Corinthians 3:11
    For no one can lay any other foundation than what is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

    Okay?
    Now if you are saying the one rock is not the foundation - Jesus Christ, then please quote the scriptures that say otherwise.
     
  7. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    I reply:
    nPeace The CHURCH Jesus built ON Peter is "His Body"!
    Next verse 1 Corinthians 3:12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,

    Clearly (above) there are many building up the Holy Catholic Body of Jesus! Jesus laid the foundation on ROCK! Jesus said "I will build My Church on rock"! The verse below tells you there are OTHERS building Jesus' Holy Catholic Church! It is still Jesus doing the building! It is built to last forever to the end of time it will never fail!
    1 Corinthians 3:10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care.

    nPeace all Christians in some way participate in building up the church. In one case Jesus is building, in the other case Christian ministers and all Christians are building up the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church on a foundation of ROCK!
    The Church Jesus is building will last forever it cannot fall it is built on a sure foundation PETER!
    ROCK not sand! ROCK it is a solid foundation! 1 Peter 2:5 we’re all “living stones built into a spiritual house”. A living stone, is a metaphor, Jesus is a stone!

    nPeace Jesus is the good shepherd in John 10:11, clearly, Jesus makes Peter the shepherd of his church! (Feed my sheep)
    Jesus is the light of the world, John 9:5. But we’re told in Matthew 5:14, that we’re all “the light of the world”.

    We’re building up the church, as we’re in Christ and being his hands and his feet here on earth to build up the church here on earth. Jesus is building his Church through us! The metaphor of being the foundation of Jesus’ church in no way takes away from Jesus as literally the one ultimate foundation.
    Ephesians 2:19-20, St. Paul says that the church is “built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets. Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone.

    Rev 21:14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
    nPeace This city is "Jesus' holy Body his bride The Church"! NOTE: Twelve foundations!
     
  8. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    "Rock" and "cornerstone" are not synonymous, and also why would Jesus have changed Simon's name to "Peter", which means "rock" or "stone" in Aramaic, if it meant nothing?
     
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  9. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    Hello. metis I hope all is well...
    I add "Jesus built on ROCK not on sand! Fools build on sand!
    Matthew 7:26
    But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.

    These protesters MUST reject the scriptures otherwise they would be Catholic! They MUST reject Matthew 16 or there is NO need for them to "Form Anew" what they claim Jesus lost!
    They are founded on the premise of "They must come to God' rescue and re-Form what Jesus lost!" AS IF...

    metis as if "Satan had somehow over powered Jesus and Satan took Jesus' holy body from Jesus!"
    They are forced to reject the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church Jesus established otherwise there is no need for them to Re-Form Jesus' church! They are NOT re-formers they are DE-Formers, they continue to divide and fragmentate into ever smaller groups.. All claiming to have the ONLY truth but not ever two of these thousands believe the same things!
    Their authority is the bible ALONE yet not one of these thousands have any authority to say they have interpreted the scriptures correctly! Scriptures are very clear.. Anti-Christs will appear, all who reject the Holy Catholic body of Jesus are these Anti-Christs!
     
  10. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Ephesians 2:20
    and you have been built up on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, while Christ Jesus himself is the foundation cornerstone.

    Great! So what is built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets?
    (Ephesians 2:19) So you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens of the holy ones and are members of the household of God,

    Peter therefore is not special above the others, is he. They are all stones on which the household of God is being built up.
    The foundation - the rock - Jesus Christ, is the central figure - the head of the corner - the cornerstone - the foundation that was laid.

    1 Corinthians 3:11
    For no one can lay any other foundation than what is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

    Therefore, there is one foundation. The body is one, and Jesus the head is one.
    The apostles are one, in union with Christ.
    Jesus Christ is the foundation that was laid. The congregation, is made up of the members of his body.

    Think of a house. The foundation is laid, but there are other bases, aren't they?
    These serve as foundations too. The groundsill; the floor...
    The prophets and apostles all play a significant role in God's building, but there is only one foundation - one rock, and that is Jesus Christ, according to the scriptures.

    Regarding your claims, your "holy church" has shown itself to be anything but holy, has it not, and the evidence speaks for itself, does it not?

    Let's address these matters. Let's have a dialogue. At the moment, we seem not to be communicating with each other.

    How about we change that.
    What part of what I said here, do you disagree with?
    Do you disagree that Jesus Christ is the foundation of the body - the congregation, or do you agree Jesus is the foundation?
    Do you agree that Jesus is talking about one rock, that the congregation is built on?
    You said earlier, it is one rock... one foundation. Are you saying Peter is that foundation?
     
  11. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    The world is in Satan's control.
    He himself said it. Luke 4:6
    Jesus agreed. John 12:31 ; John 14:30 ; John 16:11
    Jesus' followers confirmed it. 2 Corinthians 4:3, 4 ; 1 John 5:19 ; Ephesians 2:1, 2
     
  12. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    To help you get a picture...
    Note, the cornerstone. The other stones are important in completing the house.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    Scriptures says it all...
    1 Corinthians 3:11
    For no one can lay any other foundation than what is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
    QUESTION...Who laid the foundation? Answer is logical.. God laid the foundation! Only God can build his church! Question: What man started your church Martin Luther? King Henry? Taft? Russell? White? Joe Smith? Billy Graham? etc

    Question Who gave Peter the answer to Jesus' question? Answer is: GOD THE FATHER GAVE PETER THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION JESUS ASKED!

    The words of God...17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.
    18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

    nPeace Did you see it? I tell you that you are ROCK,

    nPeace John 1 tells you Jesus will change Simons name to ROCK and here in Matthew 16 Jesus changes Simon son of Jonah' name to ROCK!
    There is no way around it.. Massage and massage the words of God all you want twist change the meaning of God' word you still cannot make God say what you want him to have said!!
    Jesus build his Church on PETER not on sand.. The building Jesus does is strong it will last forever His kingdom will never be destroyed,! The one Holy Catholic Apostolic Church Jesus built on ROCK will never be destroyed it is already over 2000 years old!

    Daniel 2:44 In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. 45 This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands—a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces.
     
  14. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    Luke 10:18 He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven."

    nPeace The world that is NOT Christian is in Satan control! Jesus built on ROCK the building might be shaken but it cannot fall! The Building; IS the Body of Jesus!
    ** Jesus loves his Holy Church!
    ** He died for his bride the Holy Catholic Church!
    he loves his bride as his own body!
    ***His Holy Church is without stain She is blameless!

    25 Husbands, love your wives,** just as Christ loved the church and **gave himself up for her
    26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,
    27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, *** without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.


    nPeace Jesus feeds his Bride Living forever Manna!
    28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.
    29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church


    John 6:32 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
    34 “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”
    35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life.

    Jesus feeds his Bride Living forever Manna!
    .
    48 I am the bread of life.
    49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died.
    50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die.
    51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

    .
    29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church

    :)
     
  15. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    One sure thing is that apostate Christianity has taught its members how to preach at people.
     
  16. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    nPeace I hope all is well..
    Question.. Who started your church?!
    Taft
    Luther
    King Henry
    Joe Smith
    Russel
    White
    Alexander Campbell
    Knox
    etc
    etc
    etc
    All of these churches started by men claim to have the ONLY Truth NOT even two believe the same, all reject the ONLY Church Jesus established on ROCK! All claim Jesus failed to hang onto his holy Body! All are trying to Re-Store to God what Jesus could not hold onto! ALL of these man made churches (Yours included) must reject the scriptures to make this clime that Jesus failed!
    The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church is attacked by "Anti-Christs" as the scriptures prophesy tells us!
    All reject Jesus' promises; He is ALWAYS WITH his Holy Body to the very end of time & He sent the Holy Spirit to his Church to guide her into all truth FOREVER!
     
  17. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Another sure thing is that some people are highly steeped in religious bigotry.
     
  18. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    metis Good point.. These Anti-Catholics are taught every Sunday "We are NOT Catholic we are not sinners like them" they hear preaching every Sunday on how awful the Catholic Church is! They are taught "Jesus failed" and Jesus could NOT hold onto his bride that Satan had somehow over powered Jesus and Satan TOOK Jesus' Church from Jesus! They are taught the Catholic Church is now God' whore. That she is the Whore of barbaloin!
    Scriptures are very clear.. Jesus' Church is NOT built on sand! He remains ALWAYS with her!
    Scriptures are clear.. Anti-Christs will come alone and attack Jesus' holy Body, his Church!

    Acts 9:4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?
     
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  19. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Yes, and I grew up in a church that did just that, which is one reason why I left it when in my mid-20's.
     
  20. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    John 2:18
    Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

    metis All these teachers against Jesus are the children of Satan, they do his work!
    2 Thessalonians 2:9
    The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

    metis I feel sorry for all these deceived people taught to reject Jesus' Holy Body! Can't blame them; Satan has corrupted those who started the Protest and the "De-Formation"! Thousands and thousands of man made churches all claim to have the ONLY truth but not even two believe the same things! All claim the Scriptures are their rule of faith forgetting there wasn't a bible for the first 400 years! Not understanding the Bible is a book of the Catholic Church made by her with the guidance of God the Holy Spirit!

    Satan' family started to grow 2000 years ago...
    1 Timothy 5:15 Some have in fact already turned away to follow Satan.

    Matthew 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

    John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
     
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