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Featured Matthew 16:18

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by nPeace, Aug 10, 2021.

  1. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Yes, but the real question, imo, is to whether the ramification of this is correct.

    Jesus renames "Simon" to "Cephas" [or Kephas-- the "C" is guttural], which is Aramaic for "rock" or "stone", so I think we can assume that Jesus gave him this name for a reason. Where a problem of translation into Koine Greek was, however, is that Greek is gender sensitive, thus the feminine form [Petras] could not be used-- thus "Petros".

    Was Peter the first "pope"? Technically no, as the word "pope" was not used until centuries later. However, there's no doubt that Peter had a special designation put there by Jesus.

    BTW, in Italian, one pronounces it pa'pa [accent on 1st syllable], which is the same as "potato".
     
  2. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    There is no imperative to understand them. Paul is just another Pharisee spouting double minded hypocrisy (Matthew 16:6), for whom Yeshua warned everyone to beware of. As for you hanging on to what was written in 2 Peter, you don't have to worry, because it is doubtful that Peter could even write, and he surely didn't write 2 Peter. The only testimony of any pertinence is the testimony of Yeshua, which evolves around the kingdom of heaven, which I dare say, few have any idea of what that message means, and how it pertains to them. And for this, you even need at least two witnesses. The kingdom of God will overcome the "many", without them realizing what just happened, but they will have time to figure it out while they weep and gnash their teeth (Matthew 13:42). I don't know why lemmings jump off cliffs, just that they do. What I can say, is that apparently even the "elect" might be deceived. (Matthew 24:24).
     
  3. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The special "designation" for Peter, was for him to try and make a dwelling in "the rock" (Isaiah 22:16), shame his master's house (Isaiah 22:18)(Zechariah 13:4), to be "cast into a vast country" (Rome) (Isaiah 22:18), and be deposed from office (Isaiah 22:19), for which apparently James took over the stewardship of Jerusalem.
     
  4. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    Matthew 7:26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.
    nPeace are you saying "Jesus is a foolish man!"? Jesus built on ROCK his church will never ever fail! Jesus did NOT build his church on sand!

    John 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus.
    Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas” (which, when translated, is Peter)
    .

    nPeace do you see it... "Cephas" when translated means "ROCK"! Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon son of John. You will be called ROCK!
    Jesus' Church is his body! Are you saying; God failed to plan? Are you saying; Satan had somehow overpowered Jesus and Satan took Jesus' holy body from Jesus?!
     
  5. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    How do you know that?
     
  6. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    2ndpillar Jesus gave the keys to Peter,, Only to Peter!
    19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

    2ndpillar God the Father right from heaven kept Peter from error!
    17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.

    Jesus changed "Simon" to "Cephas" as John 1 tells you he would!
    18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

    2ndpillar Do you see it?... you are ROCK (Cephas) And on "This PETER" I will build my Church it will never ever fall!
     
  7. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    @Dogknox20 So Jesus is not the ROCK. Jesus is not the FOUNDATION.
    Is that correct?
     
  8. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    I guess you don't know, but considering what the Bible says, Jesus is not pleased with that record you speak so well of.
    Being a part of the world is against Jesus teachings.
    He even reproved Peter for using violence, so the wars that bloodied the hands of the clergy do not look pleasant to the eyes of the Lord.
    Love your neighbor, and love your brother, is what Jesus taught.
    He specifically commands it...
    (John 13:34, 35) 34 I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are my disciples - if you have love among yourselves.”

    That's not even half the story. They have deviated so far from Jesus teachings. They don't even preach the message Jesus commanded to preach.
    Jesus said... “If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples...." (John 8:31)

    So the "Christianity" today isn't looking so pretty at all. At least not to Jesus.
    Sure, thats what she thinks... "For in her heart she keeps saying, ‘I sit a queen, and I am no widow, and I shall never see mourning.. . ." she boasts, but that illusion is about to end... in one day, the scriptures say. (Revelation 18:7, 8)

    @URAVIP2ME covered that.
    No denomination will survive the wrath coming upon the harlot who commits immorality with the kings of the earth. Revelation 17, 18 Christendom, the dominant part of the world empire of false religion's days are numbered.

    Only the followers of Christ - the congregation build on the foundation - Christ Jesus, will stand.
    Christendom, with its head, has not influenced the world for good.
    What good is power, if there is no love.

    Did Jesus not teach to love your enemies?
    How much more so, the whole association of brothers in the world.

    (John 13:35) By this all will know that you are my disciples - if you have love among yourselves. . 
    (1 Peter 2:17) . . .have love for the whole association of brothers. . .

    Aren't they still blessing wars today?

    [​IMG]
    .FOR MOST OF AMERICAN history, Catholic bishops could be counted on to bless the banners of every war that came along. Their attitude was epitomized by the comment of the late Cardinal Francis Spellman on the morality of the Vietnam war: "My country, right or wrong. My country."

    To be proud of the Catholic Church, is understandable, if the words of Jesus Christ, and the Bible don't mean much.
    Isn't that why the Bible for the most part is myth, to most Catholics?
     
  9. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    Its never a blessing for war, but a blessing for the men and women in harms way. And just what do you think of the many non Catholic chaplains serving in the military? Do you really think they are blessing wars, or do you reserve that thought for the Catholic Church only?
    Defense Department expands its list of recognized religions (religionnews.com)
     
  10. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    In harms way? Who put them there?
    In either case, can you picture Jesus blessing either, or do you see him blessing his faithful followers, of whom he said, they are "no part of the world", just as he is no part of the world. John 15:17-19 ; John 17:14-17

    Don't you understand what it means to be no part of the world? How is "fighting for 'your country'" being no part of the world? When the bishop in Hungary is blessing 'their' troops, and the bishop in Ukraine is blessing 'their' troops, so they can go shoot at each other, to maim or mortally wound, whose side is God on? How is that showing support of God's kingdom, and loyalty to its king Jesus Christ?

    The rhetorical clash between Russian Orthodox and Ukrainian Greek Catholics escalates
    LVIV, Ukraine — As sobering news emerges of escalating military casualties, civilian deaths and residents of eastern Ukraine on the run, Ukrainians are drawing close to faith and trying to maintain equanimity

    ...and yes they do bless the war effort, and the weapons - the war, and hunting.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    When God holds the Catholic (as well as all other false religions) guilty for these, no one will wonder, "Wait! What?" Only those who love the irreparable acts, will.
    A Fighting People: Traditional Catholic Blessings for Weapons

    Evidently you have not understood what I posted.
    The harlot - the world empire of false religion - includes all the religions that are of this world. Not just Catholic.
    They are all a part of the world of which Satan is ruler - 1 John 5:19. They did not originate with God - 1 John 2:15-17.
    They are all coming to a sudden violent end - Revelation 17:16, 17
    [​IMG]

    It doesn't matter how the world sees them.
    What matters is how the warrior king sees them.
    James 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
     
  11. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    Jesus built his Church ON ROCK!
    nPeace The Church is the Body of Jesus!

    The Rock will never fail thus the Body of Jesus will never fall! The Holy Church will last forever to the very end of the world!

    Matthew 28:20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.”

    Jesus is ALWAYS with his Holy Body.; To the very end of the world!
    To say the Holy Church failed is to say "Jesus lies"! The words of Jesus.. I am with you always!

    Jesus "BUILT on ROCK" not on sand! Many are trying to form-anew what was never lost! They think that somehow; Satan had overpowered Jesus and Satan TOOK the Holy Body of Jesus away from Jesus! AS IF...

    nPeace as if Satan is stronger then God!

    These Re-Formers want to Re-Form Jesus' Church, they believe Jesus is a fool!
    Matthew 7:26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.
    THEY ARE WRONG.. Jesus is a wise man!
    Matthew 7:24Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
    I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.”


    Jesus died for his Church! His Church is Holy without blemish the Holy Church Jesus established on ROCK is blameless!.
    25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.
     
  12. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    nPeace you have been brainwashed! The Catholic Church is the ONLY Church established by Jesus! The Catholic Church today is by far the largest charity in the world! To say different you are forced to reject facts and the scriptures as LIES from the mouth of God!

    The Catholic Church started Orphanages, Schools and Hospitals! She encourages science, she started the University system! The Catholic Church was the welfare for the peoples not the governments! The people came to the Church for food and money not the government!
    nPeace The Holy Catholic Church brought Jesus and salvation to the world.. There were NO bibles or very few bibles, they were expensive works of art ONLY..

    nPeace
    only the very rich could own a bible!.... Even when the printing press was invented seventeen hundred years after Jesus MOST people could not read!
    The Holy Catholic Church TAUGHT and PREACHED about Jesus and salvation to the world!
    Jesus established only...One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church ON ROCK! Sure you can make accusations and insults but no proof that Jesus failed! You MUST reject the scriptures and History to reject the ONLY Church Jesus established!
    Ignatius wrote: “When the bishop is present, there let the congregation gather, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church” (8:2). A.D. 110

    Did you see it? just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church” (8:2). A.D. 110
     
  13. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Jesus is referred to as being the "Cornerstone", which is much more important than a "rock".
     
  14. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    nPeace You MUST reject the scriptures to say; Peter does NOT mean ROCK! Jesus made Peter the "Key Holder"! Jesus gave Peter the job of "Chief Shepherd of God' flock!"

    nPeace Cephas means PETER (ROCK) John 1 tells you; Jesus will change Simons name to ROCK; and Jesus does change Simons name to Rock in Matthew 16! YOU FORGET...

    nPeace
    you forget the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church Jesus established 2000 years ago IS Jesus' body! Jesus' Holy Body is built on ROCK NOT on Sand! The Body of Jesus will never ever need to be Re-Formed; it will never need to be re-built, the Holy Catholic body of Jesus will never ever fail! "I am with you ALWAYS to the very end of time"!
    The primacy of Peter is clearly noted in the Bible:
    "And I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock ['Peter' is Greek for 'rock'] I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18).
    "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you loose on Earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Matt. 16:19).
    "I have prayed that your own faith may not fail; and once you have turned back, you must strengthen your brothers" (Luke 22:33).
    God sent an angel to Peter to announce the Resurrection of Jesus (Mark 6:7).
    The risen Jesus first appeared to Peter (Luke 24:34).
    Peter headed the meeting which elected Matthias as replacement for Judas (Acts 1:13-26).
    Peter led the apostles in preaching on Pentecost (Acts 2:14).
    Peter led the meeting which decided on which terms Gentiles would be allowed into the Church (Acts 15).
    Peter was the judge of Ananias and Saphira (Acts 5:1-11).
    Jesus entrusted Peter with his flock, making him too a Good Shepherd (John 21:15-17).
    Peter performed the first miracle after Pentecost (Acts 3).
    After his conversion Paul went to see Peter, the chief apostle (Gal. 1:18).
    Throughout the New Testament, when the apostles are listed as a group, Peter's name is always first. Sometimes it's just "Peter and the twelve. "
    Peter's name is mentioned more often than the names of all the other apostles put together.
    Only Peter walked on water!
    Peter raised the dead!
    Peters shadow heals all it falls on!

    God the father from Heaven kept Peter from error!
    Matthew 16:17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.
     
  15. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The rock the church is built on is "Blessed are you, Simon Barjonas, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you but my Father who is in heaven... and upon this rock (the Spirit of Revelation/prophecy), I will build my church. The "spirit of prophecy" is the testimony of Yeshua, which is the rock the church is built on (Revelation 19:10). There is only one rock, a "tested stone", but "we have made falsehood our refuge" (Isiah 28:15-16). And "he who believes in it will not be disturbed" (Isaiah 28:16). The "rock"/"cornerstone", is not Peter. As for one set of keys, well according to Isaiah 22:22, the keys to the "house of David" were given to Eliakim (pope), who was the heir of Peter (Shebna), and he will "fall" (Isaiah 22:25). Yeshua chose the egotistical Peter to fulfill Isaiah 22. The church was to be built on the "petra", which means foundational stone. Peter was to be called Petros, a small stone, much in the character of sand (Matthew 7:26). Peter is dead, so what is he binding. The pope tried to cast out demons and failed, so what is he binding, locking up? No, I think you have been deceived be the beast with two horns like a lamb, Constantine, and his Roman church built on the foundational small stones/sand of Peter and Paul (Matthew 7:26).
     
  16. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Yeshua went on to clarify the position of Peter. He called Peter, "Satan", and a "stumbling block to me" (Matthew 6:23) which is further clarified in Matthew 13:41, whereas at the "end of the age", the angels will come to take out the tares in the form of all "stumbling blocks". Now that we are at the end of the age (Isaiah 22:25), such as in "that day", the day of the Lord, the holder of the keys of the house of David, supposedly the pope, will "fall", and those hanging on to him will be "cut off". I suggest you find a better hand hold
     
  17. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    2ndpillar You have a lot of opinion...

    Matthew was originally written in Aramaic. John 1:42 is Aramaic for Rock is Cephas!
    Jesus is portrayed as the builder of the Church, not the building. He said, “I will build my church.” Jesus is “the wise man who built his house upon the rock (Matt. 7:24) in Matthew’s Gospel. it does not fit the context to have Jesus building the Church upon himself. He’s building it upon Peter. Jesus is building on ROCK he is a wise man NOT a fool!

    The "rock" is NOT the "cornerstone", The building is built ON (Peter) Rock! The cornerstone of the BUILDING is Jesus! ROCK is the foundation the cornerstone is NEVER the foundation of a building!
    14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

    The FOUNDATION of the Church Jesus built is ON ROCK! The CHIEF ROCK is Peter!

    2ndpillar Stop your nonsense about a Cornerstone being a FOUNDATION!

    Peter is the CHIEF SHEPHERD of God' holy flock! Jesus commissioned Peter for the Job!
    John 21:17
    He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” And he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.

    Peter strengthen the other apostles!
    Luke 22:32 but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren.”

    Peter speaks for Jesus with Jesus' AUTHORITY: Peter COMMANDS men!
    , 47 “Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.

    God the father from Heaven kept Peter from error!
    17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.

    The Church Jesus built will never fail, built on ROCK!
    The Church Jesus built is still around today.. The Church Jesus built has roots back to the Apostles it is "Apostolic"!
    The Church Jesus built is HOLY it is Blameless because Jesus is Holy and Blameless!
    The Church Jesus build is Catholic because God is Catholic!
    The Church Jesus built is ONE and only ONE all others were started by Men who MUST reject the scriptures!
     
  18. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    2ndpillar Again OPPINION! To make your opinions you MUST twist the scriptures to fit what you what God to say!

    Jesus called Peter his SHEPHERD! Jesus called Peter "ROCK" he built his Bride/Church on ROCK he loves his Holy Catholic Apostolic Church he died for her!
    The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church is the Body of Jesus he is ALWAYS with his body to the very end of time!
    This means Jesus is NOT with your man made church!
    Teach them to do everything I have commanded you. “And remember that I am always with you until the end of time.”

    Peter walked on water!
    Peter' shadow heals all it touches!

    God the Father from heaven kept Peter from error, he gave Peter the answer to Jesus' question.. "Who do you say I am"?!
    2ndpillar Satan tried his luck he thought he could influence Peter as God the Father did! Jesus was NOT fooled by Satan! POVING: The Chief Bishop cannot make errors; Jesus will NOT allow it! To this day the Pope (Chief Bishop) is kept from error by Jesus! The Pope (Chief Bishop) is Infallible when he makes decision of Doctrine and Morals!
     
  19. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    If your "chief bishop" could bind anything, he should try that trick with the pedophiles within his church. And the "tares", those who "commit lawlessness", such as with Paul's example, and cause the children to stumble, such as the example of the "chief bishop", by having them look to him instead of the Word of God, will reign until the "end of time", such as the "end of the age" (Matthew 13:40-42). At that time they will be gathered up "first", and thrown into the "furnace of fire", which would allude to the "great tribulation" of Matthew 24, which precedes the coming of the "son of man" (Matthew 24:21-30). Your "body", in which you allude, would be around 1.2 million Catholics, which would be rendered as among the "many", who have followed the false prophets to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13-23). As for Peter walking on water, I do the same whenever it rains, but Peter fell into the water. As for the "chief bishop", I don't think he can even heal himself, and apparently after his last stay at the hospital, probably will not be walking much longer, even on firm ground. I would suggest that you could always pray for him, but the Word of God says that prayer of the lawless is an abomination (Proverbs 28:9). Even the blind man healed by Yeshua knew that. (John 9:31)
     
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