Masturbation

[SnowyWhiteTiger]

I don't know why some Christians make such a big deal about sex performed by consenting adults, gay or straight! Mary was pregnant before she married Joseph, and I don't for one second believe it was god 'wot dun it'!

But with Mary, it was a different affair. There was God in the matter and he likes to go around his own laws. The same with our governments.

 

[SnowyWhiteTiger]

Here's an excerpt from a Mormon article:

Steps In Overcoming Masturbation
​

"A Guide to Self-Control

1. Never touch the intimate parts of your body except during normal toilet processes. Avoid being alone as much as possible. Find good company and stay in this good company.

2. If you are associated with other persons having this same problem, you must break off their friendship. Never associate with other people having the same weakness. Don't suppose that two of you will quit together, you never will. You must get away from people of that kind. Just to be in their presence will keep your problem foremost in your mind. The problem must be taken out of your mind for that is where it really exists. Your mind must be on other and more wholesome things.

3. When you bathe, do not admire yourself in a mirror. Never stay in the bath more than five or six minutes -- just long enough to bathe and dry and dress and then get out of the bathroom into a room where you will have some member of your family present.

4. When in bed, if that is where you have your problem for the most part, dress yourself for the night so securely that you cannot easily touch your vital parts, and so that it would be difficult and time consuming for you to remove those clothes. By the time you started to remove protective clothing you would have sufficiently controlled your thinking that the temptation would leave you.

5. If the temptation seems overpowering while you are in bed, get out of bed and go into the kitchen and fix yourself a snack, even if it is in the middle of the night, and even if you are not hungry, and despite your fears of gaining weight. The purpose behind this suggestion is that you get your mind on something else. You are the subject of your thoughts, so to speak.

6. Never read pornographic material. Never read about your problem. Keep it out of mind. Remember -- "First a thought, then an act." The thought pattern must be changed. You must not allow this problem to remain in your mind. When you accomplish that, you soon will be free of the act.

7. Put wholesome thoughts into your mind at all times. Read good books -- Church books -- Scriptures -- Sermons of the Brethren. Make a daily habit of reading at least one chapter of Scripture, preferably from one of the four Gospels in the New Testament, or the Book of Mormon. The four Gospels -- Matthew, Mark, Luke and John -- above anything else in the Bible can be helpful because of their uplifting qualities.

8. Pray. But when you pray, don't pray about this problem, for that will tend to keep it in your mind more than ever. Pray for faith, pray for understanding of the Scriptures, pray for the Missionaries, the General Authorities, your friends, your families, but keep the problem out of your mind by not mentioning it ever -- not in conversation with others, not in your prayers. keep it out of your mind!
​

The attitude of a person toward his problem has an effect on how easy it is to overcome. It is essential that a firm commitment be made to control the habit. As a person understands his reasons for the behavior, and is sensitive to the conditions or situations that may trigger a desire for the act, he develops the power to control it.

We are taught that our bodies are temples of God, and are to be clean so that the Holy Ghost may dwell within us. Masturbation is a sinful habit that robs one of the Spirit and creates guilt and emotional stress. It is not physically harmful unless practiced in the extreme. It is a habit that is totally self-centered, and secretive, and in no way expresses the proper use of the procreative power given to man to fulfill eternal purposes. It therefore separates a person from God and defeats the gospel plan.

This self-gratifying activity will cause one to lose his self-respect and feel guilty and depressed, which can in the extreme lead to further sinning. As a person feels spiritually unclean, he loses his interest in prayer, his testimony becomes weak, and missionary work and other Church callings become burdensome, offering no joy and limited success."

source and more
​

I would say that the good old belt of chastity should be put in action again. And procreation, such a waste of procreative power.

 

[horntooth]

OT

i look at it this way- there are two types of sexual activity, the one that is done for and can result in reproduction, and the one that is not done for it, and can't result in it.

i see the first type as natural, and the second as unnatural. socrates/ plato called it "para-natural" in the sense they exist in nature (being that humans are a part of nature), but are not legitimately natural.

so unnatural sexual activities are
- dendrophile and zoosexual acts (acts with other species)
- necrophile acts (acts with corpses)
- paedophile acts (acts with children)
- homosexual acts (between the same gender)
- autosexual acts (masturbation)
- sexual acts between male and female that cannot result in reproduction (oral/ anal sex), and
- coitus that is not done for the sake of reproduction (coitus interruptus, coitus with contraception).

 

[Misty]

OT

i look at it this way- there are two types of sexual activity, the one that is done for and can result in reproduction, and the one that is not done for it, and can't result in it.

i see the first type as natural, and the second as unnatural. socrates/ plato called it "para-natural" in the sense they exist in nature (being that humans are a part of nature), but are not legitimately natural.

so unnatural sexual activities are
- dendrophile and zoosexual acts (acts with other species)
- necrophile acts (acts with corpses)
- paedophile acts (acts with children)
- homosexual acts (between the same gender)
- autosexual acts (masturbation)
- sexual acts between male and female that cannot result in reproduction (oral/ anal sex), and
- coitus that is not done for the sake of reproduction (coitus interruptus, coitus with contraception).

I think homosexuality is natural, just as masturbation is natural, a natural form of birth control, if you like!

 

[I Keep Unicorns]

What a hideously revolting article. It's upsetting to comprehend how many people may actually attempt to do those above things. Everyone is free to touch their own body.
What would be very amusing, if not for the cutting reality, is that the article almost aknowledges that masturbation is so enjoyable, that if one were to do it, they'd much prefer masturbation over speaking to an unlovely imaginary god and reading scriptures.

 

[horntooth]

I think homosexuality is natural, just as masturbation is natural, a natural form of birth control, if you like!

it's your right to think so, as is my right to disagree.

i'm a philosophical theist, and i determine my religious norms (both theology and ethics) by contemplation alone (with the help of reading Socrates, Neoplatonists, Stoics, and other ancient and modern philosophers), i just can't find a rationalist argument to justify homosexual, autosexual, and acts with using contraception, that would not in the same time justify necophilia, dendrophilia and zoosexuality, and there's no way i could consider those natural, and in any way acceptable.

 

[Misty]

it's your right to think so, as is my right to disagree.

i'm a philosophical theist, and i determine my religious norms (both theology and ethics) by contemplation alone (with the help of reading Socrates, Neoplatonists, Stoics, and other ancient and modern philosophers), i just can't find a rationalist argument to justify homosexual, autosexual, and acts with using contraception, that would not in the same time justify necophilia, dendrophilia and zoosexuality, and there's no way i could consider those natural, and in any way acceptable.

How very sad!

 

[I Keep Unicorns]

it's your right to think so, as is my right to disagree.

i'm a philosophical theist, and i determine my religious norms (both theology and ethics) by contemplation alone (with the help of reading Socrates, Neoplatonists, Stoics, and other ancient and modern philosophers), i just can't find a rationalist argument to justify homosexual, autosexual, and acts with using contraception, that would not in the same time justify necophilia, dendrophilia and zoosexuality, and there's no way i could consider those natural, and in any way acceptable.

Interspecies mating, homosexuality, and autosexual behaviour is witnessed in the animal kingdom. These behaviours are natural.
You cannot compare homosexuality and autosexuality with zoophilia / beastiality, necrophilia, etc in human beings. They do not fit alongside each other, only in sexual terms as witnessed behaviours. Behaviours such as homosexuality and autosexuality need little justification, moral or otherwise: sex is enjoyable, and with two consenting partners, it is completely harmless to both parties. Unless, of course, you believe in a god who says otherwise.

It may be unacceptable to YOU, and your god, but it is very little business of yours.

 

[Misty]

Interspecies mating, homosexuality, and autosexual behaviour is witnessed in the animal kingdom. These behaviours are natural.
You cannot compare homosexuality and autosexuality with zoophilia / beastiality, necrophilia, etc in human beings. They do not fit alongside each other, only in sexual terms as witnessed behaviours. Behaviours such as homosexuality and autosexuality need little justification, moral or otherwise: sex is enjoyable, and with two consenting partners, it is completely harmless to both parties. Unless, of course, you believe in a god who says otherwise.

It may be unacceptable to YOU, and your god, but it is very little business of yours.

It is sick to compare homosexuality and masturbation to illegal activities like paedophilia!

 

[LuisDantas]

it's your right to think so, as is my right to disagree.

i'm a philosophical theist, and i determine my religious norms (both theology and ethics) by contemplation alone (with the help of reading Socrates, Neoplatonists, Stoics, and other ancient and modern philosophers), i just can't find a rationalist argument to justify homosexual, autosexual, and acts with using contraception, that would not in the same time justify necophilia, dendrophilia and zoosexuality, and there's no way i could consider those natural, and in any way acceptable.

That is indeed sad. Particularly when it comes to contraception, which is in fact a moral need.

 

[horntooth]

How very sad!

xD yeah, right.. cheers.

Interspecies mating, homosexuality, and autosexual behaviour is witnessed in the animal kingdom. These behaviours are natural.

if they exist in the animal kingdom, it can be said that they're natural, but for animals. as i said, i can't find a rationalist reason to justify such behavior. a rationalist one, because i think the natural way for a human (as a rational being) to live is to be rational. if you set the "animal example" as a rule of what if natural or good, you could then say that eating your young, and rape are also natural and good, because a bunch of animal practice them.

You cannot compare homosexuality and autosexuality with zoophilia / beastiality, necrophilia, etc in human beings.

i think it's clear that they do, the way i explained in my first post.. as i said: "i look at it this way- there are two types of sexual activity, the one that is done for and can result in reproduction, and the one that is not done for it, and can't result in it." all of those fit the second group.

Behaviours such as homosexuality and autosexuality need little justification, moral or otherwise: sex is enjoyable, and with two consenting partners, it is completely harmless to both parties.

sex is enjoyable, yes, but i don't think that should be the main focus when considering it, it's my opinion that choosing (cyreanic) hedonism as your world-view is bad, and degradating to human nature. and "free sex" is far from being harmless. (hint- STDs).

Particularly when it comes to contraception, which is in fact a moral need.

the only 100% working contraception is abstinence

 

[Misty]

Thank goodness we don't all think like you horntooth!

 

[horntooth]

Thank goodness we don't all think like you horntooth!

why, what's so bad about my opinions on this topic?

 

[Misty]

why, what's so bad about my opinions on this topic?

Everything!

 

[I Keep Unicorns]

if they exist in the animal kingdom, it can be said that they're natural, but for animals. as i said, i can't find a rationalist reason to justify such behavior. a rationalist one, because i think the natural way for a human (as a rational being) to live is to be rational. if you set the "animal example" as a rule of what if natural or good, you could then say that eating your young, and rape are also natural and good, because a bunch of animal practice them.

i think it's clear that they do, the way i explained in my first post.. as i said: "i look at it this way- there are two types of sexual activity, the one that is done for and can result in reproduction, and the one that is not done for it, and can't result in it." all of those fit the second group.

Firstly, humans are animals. Our intelligence has ensured our survival. We understand the wrongdoings and extremely negative effects and outcomes of activities such as beastiality and necrophilia. The reason you cannot compare autosexuality and homosexuality to the above, is because absolutely NO harm comes from masturbation / autosexuality and homosexuality. Nil. Of course, STDS can be the outcome of homosexual sex, just the same as a whole catalogue of STDS can result from heterosexual sex. If you want to say homosexual sex is bad for the reason of STDS, then heterosexual sex is equally as bad. This is why we have protection: to minimize those risks to ensure our good health, whether we choose to have sex with a partner of the same gender, or opposite gender, whilst being able to enjoy sexual relations.

sex is enjoyable, yes, but i don't think that should be the main focus when considering it, it's my opinion that choosing (cyreanic) hedonism as your world-view is bad, and degradating to human nature. and "free sex" is far from being harmless. (hint- STDs).

Choosing to dismiss or condemn homosexuality and autosexuality as completely natural human activities is much more degrading to human nature, because it is still a part of human nature. You just don't want to accept it. It is also petty and assumes authority over other people's bodies: What business is it of yours what a person does with their genitals, with either a consenting partner of the same gender, and doing so much as to touch their OWN genitalia to climax?

 

[Misty]

Firstly, humans are animals. Our intelligence has ensured our survival. We understand the wrongdoings and extremely negative effects and outcomes of activities such as beastiality and necrophilia. The reason you cannot compare autosexuality and homosexuality to the above, is because absolutely NO harm comes from masturbation / autosexuality and homosexuality. Nil. Of course, STDS can be the outcome of homosexual sex, just the same as a whole catalogue of STDS can result from heterosexual sex. If you want to say homosexual sex is bad for the reason of STDS, then heterosexual sex is equally as bad. This is why we have protection: to minimize those risks to ensure our good health, whether we choose to have sex with a partner of the same gender, or opposite gender, whilst being able to enjoy sexual relations.



Choosing to dismiss or condemn homosexuality and autosexuality as completely natural human activities is much more degrading to human nature, because it is still a part of human nature. You just don't want to accept it. It is also petty and assumes authority over other people's bodies: What business is it of yours what a person does with their genitals, with either a consenting partner of the same gender, and doing so much as to touch their OWN genitalia to climax?[/quote]

Precisely.

People who seem to have a hang up about sex might be jealous of others because they aren't getting enough of it themselves!

 

[I Keep Unicorns]

People who seem to have a hang up about sex might be jealous of others because they aren't getting enough of it themselves!

To these people - those who spend time fretting over what people choose to do with their genitals - I wholeheartedly suggest masturbation, at the very least.

I tell them, in complete seriousness: stop typing, stimulate yourself to orgasm, and come back here still breathless from the undeniable ecstasy you have just experienced, and dismiss it with the same attitude.

 

[McBell]

i just can't find a rationalist argument to justify homosexual, autosexual, and acts with using contraception, that would not in the same time justify necophilia, dendrophilia and zoosexuality, and there's no way i could consider those natural, and in any way acceptable.

Seems to me that you have merely revealed your prejudice and bias.
Perhaps, IF you are honest, you might think about the word "consent" and how it would apply to homosexiality, masturbation, protected sex, necrophilia, paraphilia, and bestiality.

Though it seems that you are trying to hide your bias and prejudice behind the facade of procreation.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

yeah, so?

whatever!

 

[horntooth]

Everything!

for example? would you be kind to explain why are my opinions bad? what are the "bad" consequences of holding opinions like mine?

Firstly, humans are animals.

humans are rational being, and thus essentially different from (other) animals.

We understand the wrongdoings and extremely negative effects and outcomes of activities such as beastiality and necrophilia.

eh, would you name one? :S necrophilia doesn't harm anyone, and bestiality is a type of sexuality that has it's supporters among university professors (which are vegetarian, and stand for "animal liberation", btw) e.g. Peter Singer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The reason you cannot compare autosexuality and homosexuality to the above, is because absolutely NO harm comes from masturbation / autosexuality and homosexuality.

what harm comes from necrophilia? no one is hurt. also zoosexuality can be practiced without hurting anyone. so says peter singer..

If you want to say homosexual sex is bad for the reason of STDS, then heterosexual sex is equally as bad.

if you have coitus for reproduction only, STDs are not a problem, especially if you get lucky and don't get divorced, so you have coitus with your (one and only) spouse in your life (the same applied to the spouse)- and the possibility for getting an STD is non-extant.
and i didn't say that homosexuality is bad for the reason of STDs, but for the reason it is unnatural, being that it cannot result in reproduction.

Choosing to dismiss or condemn homosexuality and autosexuality as completely natural human activities is much more degrading to human nature, because it is still a part of human nature.

yes, they exists as a part of human nature, but that doesn't make them natural. anger, rage, and urge for violence is a much more integrated and much more prevalent part of human nature, but that doesn't mean it's natural or good.

What business is it of yours what a person does with their genitals

it's not. does that mean that i cannot have an opinion about sexuality and what types of it are good or bad?

Perhaps, IF you are honest, you might think about the word "consent" and how it would apply to homosexiality, masturbation, protected sex, necrophilia, paraphilia, and bestiality.

actually, the "consent" would still not exclude paraphilia, necrophilia and bestiality, because all can be practiced with arousing "pleasure only", without any harm resulting from it.