dad
Undefeated
Then fact is a meaningless word as far as your usage of it goes.
As for nominal christians that do not know or believe Scripture, what is needed is for them to go to God, not me to go to them.
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Massive star two and a half MILLION times as bright as sun...vanishes
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As for nominal christians that do not know or believe Scripture, what is needed is for them to go to God, not me to go to them.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
It doesn't say that. Instead (Genesis 2:17) God says "in the day that you eat of it you shall die." And just as the Snake said, that didn't happen.
So you still haven't shown me any lie the Snake told. One day you really should read that book of yours.
Behold, I tell you a mystery. I read the bible to understand what it says. You don't read it at all, you just try to wish your impressions on it.
I didn't say it was. I said instead that it's a good thing, an advantageous thing, to know what's good and what's evil, and that were the tale true, mankind would be a lot better off as a direct result of Eve's action.
No, that's just you wishing things on the text. Otherwise we'd see God making love to evil ─ oops, [he] does, of course ─
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light and create darkness; I make peace and create evil; I the Lord do all these things.
Still dreaming of that ol' black magic, eh?
I'm not sure how you're in a position to make such a claim, considering how little you're able to explain about [him].
I'm content to make claims impartially, honestly and transparently reasoned from examinable evidence, which is to say, the claims of science as formulated from time to time.
And ─ though I acknowledge that your method is more convenient, just making things up as you go along ─ I still think your fear of science isn't helping you, either in religion or in reality.
dad
Undefeated
dad
Undefeated
A bit like the story of the young soldier from the Bronx in WW2 that pulled out a razor when his gun ran out of ammo. He swung at the German soldier and the German thought he missed. The young American soldier smiled and said 'just waits till y'all try to shake your head'.
Adam was a dead man walking and had died spiritually. Separation from God is death.
Death is not a good thing. Hell is not a good thing. Thanks for the display of not knowing good from evil.
Pretending others fear science when you don't know real science from fables is knavish.
How come NOTHING of that is in the story? No mention anywhere of "spiritual death", and Adam wasn't separated from God after Eden; for example. Cain and Abel could find [him] without any particular effort to make offerings.
That's because you're not standing back. Without death, creatures would be unable to grow to larger sizes, evolution would be largely irrelevant, the world would have been overrun with life many millions of years ago, none of us would be here, and those that were would have to be living on sunshine or eating each other alive.
Hell is the product of a Bronze Age god or earlier, whose morals in 2020 look psychotic, with that fixation on human sacrifice, that violent intolerance of religious freedom, all those wars and massacres and murders and rapes ...
As a matter of interest, what definition of 'evil' are you using? In your view, what test will tell us whether any act is 'evil' or not?
dad
Undefeated
When people offered sacrifices some believe God honoured it by sending the fire to burn them at that time. We also see God talking more directly to people at times. I would think God found the murderer though, rather than the other way round.
There also were spirits living among men and even marrying women in the days before the flood. The people building Babel felt they could build up to the level where some spirits apparently lived. After this time we do not see the same closeness of spirits on earth. Yes they visit but do not seem to be as at home here.
Says who? God sends babies. He knows how many to send.
Your uninformed and ignorant based opinion of what hell is or is not doesn't matter. Jesus confirmed hell is real.
..God and His people are not religious,. but the devil and his people are, generally.
The same test that tells us what voices or spirits are or are not of God.
1 John
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
Once again you're saying whatever comes into your head, instead of reading what the text says.
No, you silly fellow, the stork brings babies. Sheesh, what did they teach you?
Storks can count to two (on a good day).
You've been there, I take it? You're speaking from personal experience? Or are you just imagining what that book you don't read might say?
And now you're saying that when God's people build churches and have professional priests and services every day and more on Sunday they're not being religious? Sheesh (again)!
And what test is that, exactly?
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
Apparently you feel this means something in particular. Why don't you say what that is plainly? I have a feeling that you do not state it plainly because you are afraid of how it will, necessarily, make you appear. Unfortunately, with the content of a lot of your posts, I fear that you ARE exactly what you appear to be. An unfortunate circumstance indeed.
If "their theories" are wrong... what does this mean to you? What do you think this "proves?" Would it prove anything other than that "their theories are wrong?" Think about it honestly, even for a moment, and you would realize that no... it does nothing of the sort. It doesn't, at all, inform you of what the actual answer is to the conundrum. Not in the slightest. Nor would this one, specific instance of scientific models failing their advocates tell you much of anything about any of their other models/theories.
You cannot credibly dismiss the entire body of scientific discovery because a star seems to have disappeared. Is that what you think you can accomplish?
ecco
Veteran Member
Riiight! You have no need to offer a solution. That's the beauty of being a fundamentalist theist. You can say whatever nonsense that comes to mind without the need to be able to explain anything. That's one of the reasons why people love to be fundamentalist theists - it's just so simple. No need to learn. No need to study. When necessary, copy and paste a few verses from the stories that were written 2000-3000 years ago. Ya know, back when man was ignorant of the workings of nature. Back when they believed tying goats to a certain kind of fence controlled their spots. It's much easier to continue to be ignorant and believe these kinds of things than to study and learn.
If you could? Seriously? Come on. I'm sure you can make up a story to explain it. After all, you have had a lot of practice reading simplistic stories about goat markings and the like. Is even your imagination so stunted that you can't make up stories as good as the stories your ancient Biblical writers did?
What demented thinking? According to you, God made the entire universe. According to you, God made a massive star disappear. Why do you doubt that God made the Corona Virus? If viruses exist, it's because God made them. If viruses exist, it's because made sure they were on the ark.
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dad
Undefeated
Well, science can do the same. The star that vanished is claimed to be one hundred times bigger, and 2 1/2 MILLION times brighter than the sun! That beats a rabbit in a hat I guess.
Massive star 100 times larger than the sun mysteriously disappears
dad
Undefeated
Religious people killed Jesus. The prophets also were killed by them. God does not live in building made with hands. He looks at the heart.
dad
Undefeated
I have said that I think their whole cosmo model is wrong. I also said we do not know why stars do what they do, in this case up and disappear.
God was right all along.
I do not need to prove anything, or have their beliefs fail to prove anything. Science is not about proof. The never ending stream of failures do show that something seems to be rotten in Denmark. I already knew that. There are those in this world and these forums, apparently, who do not yet seem to know that.
I am not the one saying science will ever have or has the actual answer. In fact I plainly cited God's word that man cannot have the actual answers regarding the beginning and end no matter what.
Looking at instances proving they never really knew demonstrates this.
You cannot credibly justify the entire body of scientific discovery because a star seems to have disappeared. Is that what you think you can accomplish? That star was claimed to be no less than 100 times the size of the sun.
According to one site we could fit over a million earth sized planests in our sun.
" In terms of physical dimensions you could fit about 1.3 million Earths inside the sun."
How many times is the Sun bigger than the other planets? - Quora
So for something 100 times the size of our sun we could fit 130 million earths into it!
Boom. Presto. Gone.
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dad
Undefeated
I actually said we do not know why a star disappears. Careful about misrepresenting.
ecco
Veteran Member
Who is we? I was talking to you, not some y'all.
You believe God made the universe, but you will not state that God took away one star.
The scientists in your linked article, give several scientific reasons why we may not be able to see a star we were able to see in the past (e.g. obscured by dust). Another reason may be that it is currently obscured by a roaming supermassive black hole that has moved between us and the star.
Supermassive black hole being pushed around by gravitational waves, Nasa finds
Since you don't believe science, why can't you give a religious reason?
dad
Undefeated
We as in any person on earth.
Why speculate?
Guesses.
Right, or maybe a giant easter bunny that wanted to stuff it in it's bag?
We do know that stars are there for one thing, as signs to man. So when we see something unusual out there, it could be some sign. What that is would be something I would not know yet.
However, the star of Bethlehem appeared and vanished also. It had a known purpose.
I suppose if a modern cosmo scientist was transported back in time they might offer similar guesses as to why it vanished. 'Gee, maybe a black hole ate it'. Then when it reappears maybe something like 'gee, I guess it was really dust that covered it, and then went away' etc etc.
dad
Undefeated
Had to happen eventually
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