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Massacre In Mexico

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
The Mexican government says it can and will handle it, but I have my doubts. Other than that, it's their country.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
"We" should probably avoid being there, and perhaps reexamine any policies of ours that might be contributing to their poverty and rampant crime.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
They were members of a fundie polygamist Mormon cult that has been feuding with the locals for decades over land and water rights. That's pretty much why they were killed. This only made the news in the US mainstream news because they were nice looking white people, most likely. :rolleyes: Tragic that the children died, though. However, that cult has its own nasty history of murder and abuse.

The Mexican Cartels vs. a Mormon Sect: Behind the Horrific Massacre of American Moms and Children
Ervil LeBaron - Wikipedia
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
They were members of a fundie polygamist Mormon cult that has been feuding with the locals for decades over land and water rights. That's pretty much why they were killed. This only made the news in the US mainstream news because they were nice looking white people, most likely. :rolleyes: Tragic that the children died, though. However, that cult has its own nasty history of murder and abuse.

The Mexican Cartels vs. a Mormon Sect: Behind the Horrific Massacre of American Moms and Children
Ervil LeBaron - Wikipedia

Yep, white Christians were killed, thus "Quick, how might we politically exploit this?"

Of course they're going to leave out that the family moved to Mexico to avoid U.S. law enforcement.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Who's "we?"

This is news? Doesn't this sort of thing happen all the time in the Mexican narco-state -- albeit usually to brown people?:rolleyes:

"We" should probably avoid being there, and perhaps reexamine any policies of ours that might be contributing to their poverty and rampant crime.
Hear, hear!
Maybe we could stop buying their drugs and Buy American! [URL='http://www.sherv.net/big.usa.flag-emoticon-1334.html']
[/URL]

Maybe we could build a wall to stop the haemorrhage of guns over the border. :rolleyes:
 
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Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member

Now? These cartels have been killing people for many years now, and it's largely the result of the US government's international War on Drugs. And only now, you think we should do something?

As for what we should do now? We should do what we should have done decades ago: Legalize drugs. End the slaughter.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
They were members of a fundie polygamist Mormon cult that has been feuding with the locals for decades over land and water rights. That's pretty much why they were killed. This only made the news in the US mainstream news because they were nice looking white people, most likely. :rolleyes: Tragic that the children died, though. However, that cult has its own nasty history of murder and abuse.

The Mexican Cartels vs. a Mormon Sect: Behind the Horrific Massacre of American Moms and Children
Ervil LeBaron - Wikipedia
Your news article doesn’t seem to say anything about land and water rights
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Possibly, although I haven't heard of any mass murders over bootleg liquor or cigarettes lately.

Different substances cause different issues in different nations. This is a problem in Mexico. The US legalizing drugs isn't going to change Cartel tactics in Mexico dealing with Mexicans
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Different substances cause different issues in different nations. This is a problem in Mexico. The US legalizing drugs isn't going to change Cartel tactics in Mexico dealing with Mexicans

Maybe not, although by legalizing it, US demand can be met by other countries and bypass Mexico. The cartels' revenue stream would dry up, and they'd either have to change their ways or go broke.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Maybe not, although by legalizing it, US demand can be met by other countries and bypass Mexico. The cartels' revenue stream would dry up, and they'd either have to change their ways or go broke.

Again the Black market is cheaper than legal production. All you do is shift the market to another nation and that is if the cartels leave Mexico for little reasons. More so depending on how far legalization goes the laws could ends up removing vital mid and low level criminals from flipping on their suppliers as there is no crime.

There is a gray area in which various legalization laws create in drug deals. Canada is learning the hard way right now. First off is local laws and government which can shutdown any legal production via regulation and bylaws. The next level is provincial using the same methods just one level up. Legal product of weed cost twice the price to customers than the black market. Wage laws must be followed. Building codes. Health codes. Etc. Legalization has shifted some violations to be about licensing instead of a major crime. A low level deal is no longer a drug related crime with narcotics but merely an unlicensed business exchange. Weed isn't even covered by pharmaceutical laws. It is just an age limited consumer product. Without the penalties of narcotics violations police can only go after major individuals or group typical breaking border laws. As Mexico has far more issues with law enforcement in general the cartel's risk does not change locally. Internationally using mules is still the same. The only change is a nation sends less of it's citizens to jail.
 
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Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Again the Black market is cheaper than legal production. All you do is shift the market to another nation and that is if the cartels leave Mexico for little reasons. More so depending on how far legalization goes the laws could ends up removing vital mid and low level criminals from flipping on their suppliers as there is no crime.

There is a gray area in which various legalization laws create in drug deals. Canada is learning the hard way right now. First off is local laws and government which can shutdown any legal production via regulation and bylaws. The next level is provincial using the same methods just one level up. Legal product of weed cost twice the price to customers than the black market. Wage laws must be followed. Building codes. Health codes. Etc. Legalization has shifted some violations to be about licensing instead of a major crime. A low level deal is no longer a drug related crime with narcotics but merely an unlicensed business exchange. Weed isn't even covered by pharmaceutical laws. It is just an age limited consumer product. Without the penalties of narcotics violations police can only go after major individuals or group typical breaking border laws. As Mexico has far more issues with law enforcement in general the cartel's risk does not change locally. Internationally using mules is still the same. The only change is a nation sends less of it's citizens to jail.

The only real world example we have to compare it with is the end of Prohibition, at which time a lot of the gang wars over liquor subsided. It obviously didn't end crime or organized crime, but at least it resolved the immediate problem at hand. It doesn't mean that there hasn't been problems, as alcohol and alcoholism are serious problems in society. Legalization is not a panacea by any means, but at least it might bring some semblance of order out of chaos.

I also realize that the cartels won't necessarily go away, although they might be weakened in power. My sense is that a lot of the cartel violence isn't just about drug dealing either. Considering how brazen some of these attacks have been (such as mass murders of cops, shooting up hospitals, slaughtering whole villages), it's almost like rival factions of warlords which rival the official government. US crime families, as bad as they might have been, never really got that extreme or radical. Not like these cartels, who seem reckless and self-destructive.

They also have operations in the US. I've seen reports of safe houses linked to the cartels being discovered around here. They're connected to powerful street gangs in the US, as well as prison gangs. That's part of the problem, since prison is hardly any real deterrent. I don't think we can stop gangs and cartels entirely, but the only reason they're a major problem today is because of the economic power they wield from the lucrative profits in the drug trade. Financially, they're on par with any major Wall Street corporation.

I'm not saying we can eliminate the black market entirely, but it can be weakened - and that may be an adequate, albeit imperfect, solution to the current dilemma.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Different substances cause different issues in different nations. This is a problem in Mexico. The US legalizing drugs isn't going to change Cartel tactics in Mexico dealing with Mexicans
But legalizing drugs might dry up the market for Mexican suppliers, and put the cartels out of business.

....though there's always the chance they'll switch to competing food truck cartels. You can hide a lot of guns in a food truck. :eek:
 
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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
But legalizing drugs might dry up the market for Mexican suppliers, and put the cartels out of business.
I used to bring in an FBI agent into my poli sci course who worked in conjunction with the DEA, and he changed his mind on this and came to agree with what your wrote above. Not only in Mexico it isn't working but also here in the States as well. A big drug bust drives the price of drugs up, so the addicts have to rob and kill even more-- it's a vicious cycle.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
I used to bring in an FBI agent into my poli sci course who worked in conjunction with the DEA, and he changed his mind on this and came to agree with what your wrote above. Not only in Mexico it isn't working but also here in the States as well. A big drug bust drives the price of drugs up, so the addicts have to rob and kill even more-- it's a vicious cycle.
Did you every think that just maybe the agent agreed with you because of some other reason:D
 
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