Mass shooting at gay nightclub.

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Oh, look. Another faux mind reader.

I'm not a mind-reader. I'm a post reader. I've read yours.

 

[Father Heathen]

Rushing to judgment? Remember Occam's razor. There are many other more likely motives for this. Perhaps we could wait to find out instead of displaying biases.

I said I wouldn't be surprised, which isn't an assertion of certainty. That said, who typically comes mind when it comes to loving guns and hating gays?

 

[Father Heathen]

I am claiming that most of what you are calling "opposing LGBT rights" are nonesuch. So by extension, yes.

Nah, they most definitely are. You're performing mental gymnastics to polish a turd.

 

[Shaul]

And I suppose the reason you don't respond to my post is because you think it's biased too, and therefore you won't bother looking at it?

Try a smidge of intellectual honesty. This year, in the United States, 32 LGBTQ people have been killed, and 344 anti-LGBTQ bills were introduced in state legislatures -- 25 of which passed. This has the effect, you probably won't understand why, of making people think they may be justified in their hatreds.

Go to the 18:00 minute mark of today's Meet the Press -- see for yourself. Or are thy too biased for you, as well?

Yes, actually, I do consider NBC to be biased. Nor am I going to suffer through 51 minutes of biased propaganda to satisfy you or demonstrate something.

32 people died? How many of those 32 were killed by fellow LBGTQ community members? How many due to reasons that had nothing to do with anti-LBGTQ animosity? Given the size of the United States that is a small number.

Over a 100 are killed by bee stings each year. That's a tragedy too. 19 have been killed by lightning. School crossing guards are killed frequently too. (Are those hate crimes too?)

Any needless death is a loss. But attempting to use deaths for political divisiveness or ideology is wrong.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Yes, actually, I do consider NBC to be biased. Nor am I going to suffer through 51 minutes of biased propaganda to satisfy you or demonstrate something.

32 people died? How many of those 32 were killed by fellow LBGTQ community members? How many due to reasons that had nothing to do with anti-LBGTQ animosity? Given the size of the United States that is a small number.

Over a 100 are killed by bee stings each year. That's a tragedy too. 19 have been killed by lightning. School crossing guards are killed frequently too. (Are those hate crimes too?)

Any needless death is a loss. But attempting to use deaths for political divisiveness or ideology is wrong.

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Yes, actually, I do consider NBC to be biased. Nor am I going to suffer through 51 minutes of biased propaganda to satisfy you or demonstrate something.

32 people died? How many of those 32 were killed by fellow LBGTQ community members? How many due to reasons that had nothing to do with anti-LBGTQ animosity? Given the size of the United States that is a small number.

Over a 100 are killed by bee stings each year. That's a tragedy too. 19 have been killed by lightning. School crossing guards are killed frequently too. (Are those hate crimes too?)

Any needless death is a loss. But attempting to use deaths for political divisiveness or ideology is wrong.

I was TRYING to use the bills introduced -- and passed -- and by which parties. All of which you steadfastly refuse to go anywhere near. If you think those bills were not introduced, produce some evidence. If you think those laws were not passed, produce some evidence.

You won't listen to news you don't want to hear, you ignore that which doesn't tell you the world is as you wish it to be, because it's what you want and what you hope for. As I've said -- I've read your posts. You speak for yourself.

 

[Shaul]

I said I wouldn't be surprised, which isn't an assertion of certainty. That said, who typically comes mind when it comes to loving guns and hating gays?

There is no connection between "loving" guns and hating. If you are suggesting that gun ownership is a gate way to hatred of gays is ludicrous.

Describing people that own guns as "loving" guns shows a bizarre lack of understanding. Do toaster owners "love" their toasters? Guns are inanimate objects. The term "loving guns" is weird and ridiculous.

So nobody comes to mind when it comes to "loving guns" and hating gays. For multiple reasons.

 

[Shaul]

I was TRYING to use the bills introduced -- and passed -- and by which parties. All of which you steadfastly refuse to go anywhere near. If you think those bills were not introduced, produce some evidence. If you think those laws were not passed, produce some evidence.

You won't listen to news you don't want to hear, you ignore that which doesn't tell you the world is as you wish it to be, because it's what you want and what you hope for. As I've said -- I've read your posts. You speak for yourself.

Well then just list which ones you think are these ersatz "anti-LGBTQ" Bills. That would be efficient. Instead of asking me to wade through an hour of unnecessary other stuff.

 

[idea]

So, it was a Mormon who killed them - their apostle Holland, and Oaks called for "musket fire" in several speeches and... more blood on Mormon hands.

Mormon church confirms the Colorado Springs shooter was a member


Colorado shooting suspect's links to Mormon church explained

A Shocking New Speech Has Plunged Mormons Into Another Furious Battle Over Gay Rights

Church should be held responsible for the hate speech it dishes out.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Yes, actually, I do consider NBC to be biased. Nor am I going to suffer through 51 minutes of biased propaganda to satisfy you or demonstrate something.

32 people died? How many of those 32 were killed by fellow LBGTQ community members? How many due to reasons that had nothing to do with anti-LBGTQ animosity? Given the size of the United States that is a small number.

Over a 100 are killed by bee stings each year. That's a tragedy too. 19 have been killed by lightning. School crossing guards are killed frequently too. (Are those hate crimes too?)

Any needless death is a loss. But attempting to use deaths for political divisiveness or ideology is wrong.

NBC, CBS and ABC tend to be fairly centrist. There are few completely balanced news sources, but some are close.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes, that makes them quite rare given the huge size of the United States. Of course I could point out you conflating mass shootings with mass murders too. Meanwhile, in Europe, over 40,000 people have been killed by guns this year so far.

I do not know where you got that figure from, but it appears to be counting the deaths from the war in Ukraine too. In 2017 the total deaths from gunfire were 22,000 in Europe. There is no way that a doubling would have gone unnoticed, so that cannot be just civilian deaths.

https://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/gsh/Booklet1.pdf

Meanwhile shooting deaths in the US were just shy of 40,000 in that year. Taking into account populations that is a difference of about five times.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Try not limiting your research to biased sources. You will be surprised how much of what you "know" is wrong.

That doesn't counter my argument.

 

[Twilight Hue]

You are not paying attention. That is because there is not enough gun control on legal owners. You need to ask yourself where felons get guns from and how that can be stopped. i need to remind you that this is not a problem in countries with gun control. The question is how far do you want it to go/ If you continue to support nothing you only add strength to the position of people that want to get rid of all guns.

Lett's see if you can do rational reasoning instead of emotional reasoning.

There is still the 2nd amendment. My rational is you don't attack the Constitution and Bill of Rights without a constutional convention.

 

[Father Heathen]

There is no connection between "loving" guns and hating. If you are suggesting that gun ownership is a gate way to hatred of gays is ludicrous.

Describing people that own guns as "loving" guns shows a bizarre lack of understanding. Do toaster owners "love" their toasters? Guns are inanimate objects. The term "loving guns" is weird and ridiculous.

So nobody comes to mind when it comes to "loving guns" and hating gays. For multiple reasons.

FFS, I wasn't suggesting that they were connected.

Groups of people can share common attributes without those attributes having any direct correlation with one another.

For example, most liberals support gay rights and protecting the environment, but the one has nothing to do with another.

I suspect you're being disingenuous and deliberately misrepresenting my point since you can't refute it.

As for loving guns, of course you can own objects without loving them, but there is clearly a toxic gun culture that fetishizes and obsesses over guns. Many cosplay and LARP as tacticool commandos and have wet dreams about saving the day Dirty Harry style. They make 2A a personality trait.

 

[Father Heathen]

There is still the 2nd amendment. My rational is you don't attack the Constitution and Bill of Rights without a constutional convention.

Rocket launchers and fully auto 50 cal machine guns are arms, but no 2A advocates are crying over the fact they're not available on the civilian market. This suggest that 2A doesn't mean any and all arms, so we can limit it to muskets and 2A would still be intact.

 

[Father Heathen]

Over a 100 are killed by bee stings each year. That's a tragedy too. 19 have been killed by lightning. School crossing guards are killed frequently too. (Are those hate crimes too?)

Are you really trying to compare deliberate murder to unfortunate accidents? Talk about desperation. Was sweat pouring down your face when you typed this?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Rocket launchers and fully auto 50 cal machine guns are arms, but no 2A advocates are crying over the fact they're not available on the civilian market. This suggest that 2A doesn't mean any and all arms, so we can limit it to muskets and 2A would still be intact.

I'm not aware comparatively of any personal owners of cannons in the 1700s. but rest assured they owned their small arms that they took into battle with them.

I'll admit I wish the founders of America would be more specific as arms do evolve over time as I'm sure they were aware of.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yes, that makes them quite rare given the huge size of the United States. Of course I could point out you conflating mass shootings with mass murders too. Meanwhile, in Europe, over 40,000 people have been killed by guns this year so far.

You have to compare a country (USA) to an entire continent (Europe) and you think that helps your argument?

Oh and then there's this:

"While shootings are far less common in Europe, they do still take place occasionally. According to the latest available data by the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME), Albania saw the worst rates of gun violence in 2019 with 1.39 gun violence deaths that year per 100,000 people. This was followed by Montenegro at a rate of 0.99 deaths and North Macedonia at 0.98 deaths. While these figures are high by European standards, they were significantly lower than the rate of 4.12 deaths per 100,000 population, which was found in the U.S. As the IHME data shows, EU Member States have seen lower rates of firearm homicides than many other regions worldwide."
Infographic: Mapping Europe's Gun Deaths

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

There is still the 2nd amendment. My rational is you don't attack the Constitution and Bill of Rights without a constutional convention.

Gotta love that Second Amendment, written back when automatic weapons didn't exist.

I love the fact that a lot of Americans don't think anybody needs special training, or licensing, to own and carry weapons that can kill. And yet, no surgeon would be permitted anywhere near a scalpel, or a nurse to weild a syringe full of chemicals, to save a life without years of training and proper accreditions. Hell, you can't even drive your kids to school without more training and licensing than gun owners seem to require.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Gotta love that Second Amendment, written back when automatic weapons didn't exist.

I love the fact that a lot of Americans don't think anybody needs special training, or licensing, to own and carry weapons that can kill. And yet, no surgeon would be permitted anywhere near a scalpel, or a nurse to weild a syringe full of chemicals, to save a life without years of training and proper accreditions. Hell, you can't even drive your kids to school without more training and licensing than gun owners seem to require.

You think owning a weapon requires the same complexity as becoming a surgeon or nurse?

There are sure some weird comparisons going on here.

Still, I'm not against training and such. It's actually a good thing. I had to attend a hunter safety course and pass before getting my license tag to hunt when I was a teen.

I wouldn't be against a weapons training and safety course before purchasing a firearm. It was great fun and a learning experience.